ecosophia: (Default)
[personal profile] ecosophia
Robert AmbelainIt's getting toward midnight, so we can proceed with a new Magic Monday. Ask me anything about occultism and I'll do my best to answer it. With certain exceptions, any question received by midnight Monday Eastern time will get an answer. Please note:  Any question or comment received after then will not get an answer, and in fact will just be deleted. (I've been getting an increasing number of people trying to post after these are closed, so will have to draw a harder line than before.) If you're in a hurry, or suspect you may be the 143,916th person to ask a question, please check out the very rough version 1.0 of The Magic Monday FAQ hereAlso: I will not be putting through or answering any more questions about practicing magic around children. I've answered those in simple declarative sentences in the FAQ. If you read the FAQ and don't think your question has been answered, read it again. If that doesn't help, consider remedial reading classes; yes, it really is as simple and straightforward as the FAQ says. 

The picture?  I'm working my way through photos of my lineage, focusing on the teachers whose work has influenced me and the teachers who influenced them in turn.
I'm currently tracing my Martinist lineage.  That's rendered complex by the Martinist tradition that one does not name one's initiator, so we'll have to go back through less evasive routes. Both of the last two honorees, and most of the other Martinist lineages in existence, were also taught and influenced by this man, Robert Ambelain, a prolific writer and occult scholar whose work extended from astrology and Freemasonry to Druidry and Martinism. Ambelain was born in 1907; he became an astrologer in the 1920s, proceeded to become a major figure in the Martinist scene and a bishop in one of the French Gnostic churches, played a central role in reviving several defunct occult orders, published 42 books, and earned the Croix de Guerre for his service to France during the Second World War. He died in 1997.

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With that said, have at it!

***This Magic Monday is now closed. See you next week!***

Re: Asatru Folk Assembly

Date: 2023-06-26 06:31 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] brenainn
Thanks, Jeff! This is quite similar to what I've discovered so far. I did see some clips from McNallen that struck me as borderline as far as White nationalism/supremacy might go. But having some controversial views on race does not necessarily make one a racist. Do you happen to recall where those video clips can be found? They might not be the ones that I saw, and so it might provide a clearer picture of the situation. McNallen retired as leader of the AFA in 2016 (I think) but I do not know how active he is in still guiding the organization. That said, the current leadership still speaks quite highly of him (and that might be quite justified, for all I currently know) and so I'm guessing the AFA's current teaching is still heavily influenced by his thought.

FWIW, I'm mostly finished with reading McNallen's book "Asatru: A Native European Spirituality." I haven't found anything overtly racist, or even anything I'd think of as covertly racist. But maybe I missed something.

I suppose my primary concern would be if the AFA actually condones (in secret or not) hatred for non-White races and/or teaches that the White race is superior to all other races. At least, that's how I'd define actual racism.

Re: Asatru Folk Assembly

Date: 2023-06-26 04:04 pm (UTC)
jprussell: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jprussell
Hmmm, I'm not positive, but it might have been one of these two videos by Ocean Keltoi:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6SXC2mRS34
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLpFU9J1mfk

As you can tell from the titles, he does equate Folkishness with Racism, and he's against it. For some context, Ocean Keltoi seems to have some very progressive views, but in all the videos I've seen of him expressing them, he's done so in a measured and mostly respectful way. So, there's a definite viewpoint there, but he doesn't seem like a ranting ideologue. As such, I might recommend trying to find a pro-McNallen source to compare this with, if it does have the clips I vaugely remember.

Re: Asatru Folk Assembly

Date: 2023-06-26 05:53 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] brenainn
Thank you for the links, Jeff. I'll watch them later this evening. As far as a pro-McNallen source, he's got a lot of videos and writings out there. It might be best to go to those primary source materials, since I won't have to factor in another individual's biases (for or against him) when trying to understand his thinking. Well, other than my own biases, that is.
Edited Date: 2023-06-26 06:07 pm (UTC)

Re: Asatru Folk Assembly

Date: 2023-06-26 11:46 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] brenainn
Having reviewed the videos, the clips shared in them of McNallen are from the videos of his that I watched. Some of the stuff does seem borderline, but I do not think (and especially placed in context of his larger work) that these make him a White supremacist or a hateful person. While Ocean Keltoi might be a respectful progressive, I think that progessivism is an inaccurate lens through which to view the world. Criticism rooted in it are of dubious validity to my mind. No offense is intended to anyone by that comment. But that's where my thinking is at.

I have watched a few of Ocean Keltoi's other videos. Interesting fellow. I imagine that he wouldn't like me very much.

Re: Asatru Folk Assembly

Date: 2023-06-27 02:55 am (UTC)
jruss: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jruss
One thing to remember with McNallen, he has worked to help Tibetans, Native Americans, Indians, Palestinians, etc. preserve their culture. He has stated he sees the same attempts to remove European Culture as the others and now wants to focus on protecting that, he claims (and I agree) European Culture alone seems to be the only one that is politically incorrect to defend.

As far as AFA they are racialist, but I don't think racist. The difference being they have no hate for other cultures or peoples, they are like Hasedic Jews interested in their own in group only.

That said they can be a bit puritanical. I'm blocked by them on twitter for sharing anime porn, being a white dude following Shinto and other Asian religions amongst other things.

Also one AFA member was kicked out for not disowning his Transgendered child.
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