Open (More or Less) Post on Covid 24
Jan. 18th, 2022 12:48 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ecosophia
The semi-open posts I've hosted here on the Covid-19 narrative, the inadequately tested experimental drugs for it, and the whole cascading mess surrounding them have continued to field a very high number of comments, so I'm opening yet another space for discussion. The rules are the same as before: 1. If you plan on parroting the party line of the medical industry and its paid shills, please go away. This is a place for people to talk openly, honestly, and freely about their concerns that the party line in question is dangerously flawed and that actions being pushed by the medical industry et al. are causing injury and death. It is not a place for you to dismiss those concerns. Anyone who wants to hear the official story and the arguments in favor of it can find those on hundreds of thousands of websites.
2. If you plan on insisting that the current situation is the result of a deliberate plot by some villainous group of people or other, please go away. There are tens of thousands of websites currently rehashing various conspiracy theories about the Covid-19 outbreak and the vaccines. This is not one of them. What we're exploring is the likelihood that what's going on is the product of the same arrogance, incompetence, and corruption that the medical industry and its tame politicians have displayed so abundantly in recent decades. That possibility deserves a space of its own for discussion, and that's what we're doing here.
3. If you plan on using rent-a-troll derailing or disruption tactics, please go away. I'm quite familiar with the standard tactics used by troll farms to disrupt online forums, and am ready, willing, and able -- and in fact quite eager -- to ban people permanently for engaging in them here. Oh, and I also lurk on other Covid-19 vaccine skeptic blogs, so I'm likely to notice when the same posts are showing up on more than one venue.
4. If you don't believe in treating people with common courtesy, please go away. I have, and enforce, a strict courtesy policy on my blogs and online forums, and this is no exception. The sort of schoolyard bullying that takes place on so many other internet forums will get you deleted and banned here. No, I don't care if you disagree with that: my journal, my rules.
With that said, as more and more vaccinated people call in sick with the disease the vaccine was supposed to keep them from getting, and the euphemism "died suddenly" sounds like a repeated drumbeat in the media, the floor is open for discussion.
Are we getting settled yet?
Date: 2022-01-18 06:20 pm (UTC)It appears to have quite a few differences to the original. Might just be possible the entwined Sars CoV-2 virus/covid vixenation story isn't quite done yet and another twist may happen. I say this in light of Radagast's post on the 9th: https://www.rintrah.nl/omicron-the-vaccine-induced-self-inflicted-wound/
and IM Doc's thoughts in the Naked Capitalism thread on the 14th: https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2022/01/links-1-14-2022.html
'The 1890s pandemic, more and more are thinking it was indeed coronavirus OC 43, was much different and so far is mirroring our current situation. Depending on where you were in the world, there were 7 to 12 huge waves. There was no clean stair stepping down in badness, each wave had its own characteristics, and some waves were nothingburgers, some were Godzilla...
As I have repeatedly said, collective humanity and our collective immune system is going to have a hot war with this virus until the hostilities are over... It remains to be seen how the introduction of vaccines will play out in this war. We have never attempted this in humans before. In every animal coronavirus pandemic where vaccines were attempted, it has ended in tears.'
This is, of course, taken on board together with an awareness of JMG's original hypothesis way back when too: https://ecosophia.dreamwidth.org/140421.html
However, it is also possible that we are seeing the final settle down to a seasonal, endemic virus and the human race got 'lucky' - just as the serious clash between the vixens and the ever evolving virus happened, Sars-CoV-2 became quite a lot less dangerous - quoting part of a comment on the Market-Ticker I saw on Monday:
"Without Omicron, all the people that are getting sick now (and we suspected they might as protection wore off) would be getting SICK.
But now they are getting sick enough to be hurting by this cold, but not so sick that they still believe the "I would be much worse without the jabs". They don't seem to recognize that the purebloods aren't really getting it at all (or have at worst the same symptoms).
It seems to be a perfect bug to reinforce the "It could have been worse" trope ..."
https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=244845&page=10
Welcome anyone's thoughts on this.
Re: Are we getting settled yet?
Date: 2022-01-18 07:22 pm (UTC)Those are not the facts on the ground that I am seeing. Someone I work with just lost a vaccinated/probably boosted parent this week to "complications with COVID." And that same co-worker, who is vaccinated/probably boosted, also has COVID right now.
But vaccinated people dying does not seem to be making a dent in the mantra. They are holding onto their faith in the vaccines no matter what.
Re: Are we getting settled yet?
Date: 2022-01-18 10:38 pm (UTC)...
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/57/ab/49/57ab49a6e26e5b9c1803c7b55d610ae3.gif
Re: Are we getting settled yet?
Date: 2022-01-19 12:00 am (UTC)Re: Are we getting settled yet?
Date: 2022-01-19 03:34 pm (UTC)Re: Are we getting settled yet?
Date: 2022-01-20 12:45 am (UTC)Re: Are we getting settled yet?
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2022-01-20 12:46 am (UTC) - ExpandRe: Are we getting settled yet?
Date: 2022-01-18 07:48 pm (UTC)1. It's becoming increasingly obvious to anyone looking at the data that there is a strong correlation between genetic vaccine uptake and Omicron infection rate. Even Australia is in on it now, and Israel is back at the top of the pack in terms of new infections per day. It will be interesting to see (e.g. in adjacent Latin American countries that used either genetic or inactivated virus vaccines) whether the more traditional vaccines are exempt from this correlation.
2. Even if the vaccines area still protective against severe illness in those infected, apparent negative efficacy against infection is probably getting close to wiping out vaccine efficacy against covid death. We will need to watch UK numbers in the coming weeks.
3. Personal anecdata: I wanted to meet up with two friends yesterday but it turned out both are getting over Omicron. The vaxxed one got it worse and is seeing her doctor about possible heart issues. The unvaxxed one had a mild cold for a few days.
4. It's not surprising that Omicron is mutating rapidly as it is new to the human population and probably not very optimized. These changes should be incremental though - one or two amino acids changing at a time - so I would expect those who have had BA.1 will still be immune to BA.2 etc. This would be surprised to see multiple Omicron waves even if new substrains rise to dominance as the wave progresses.
5. Interesting perspective on the 1890s pattern of OC43 waves. I guess we could be in for more in the years ahead. Immunity studies seem to be pointing toward antibody diversity expanding with exposure, e.g. Omicron infection alone doesn't confer great protection against Delta, but vax + Omicron or previous infection + Omicron does (http://medrxiv.org/cgi/content/short/2022.01.13.22269243). (Caveat: lots of conflicts of interest in that author list.) This would suggest an iterative process in which reinfections across multiple waves gradually expand the immune repertoire to be more resistant to future variants.
6. Speaking of OC43, it's interesting to see that it and NL63 briefly eclipsed SARS-CoV2 in prevalence in spring-summer of 2021. The arrival of Delta and later Omicron drove SC2 back to dominance and seems to have suppressed the others. These sort of viral competition effects are greatly overlooked. See https://syndromictrends.com/
In the settings you can click on individual viruses to see trends over time.
7. The US Omicron wave has peaked in the Northeast with NY cases down substantially and appears to be peaking elsewhere in the US presently. This map which uses fever data from smart thermometers can be useful to track rising/falling trends. https://healthweather.us/map?mode=covid_forecast&resolution=state
See also 91-divoc for infection trends by state, country, or region:
https://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/
8. Alex Berenson published an interesting piece debunking the idea that vax adverse effects are always short term. Apparently Pfizer created a cattle vaccine against a form of diarrheal illness that caused bleeding disorders in a very small proportion of injected cows, but that later turned out to cause hemorrhagic death in up to 15% of calves as it induced "alloantibodies" against fetal blood cells. The effect worsened with time and with number of doses given.
https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/remember-how-health-authorities-said
9. On the social "dehumanize the unvaxxed" mass formation crisis side, tensions seem to be easing in the US at least with the Supreme Court ruling and with Omicron causing similar levels of illness (and similar low levels of severe illness) in vaxxed and unvaxxed alike. I note that there was a significant drop in the comment count here last week, and also that my favorite hot spring has abandoned their vax-or-test requirement in light of Omicron.
Mark L
Re: Are we getting settled yet?
Date: 2022-01-18 10:28 pm (UTC)Just taking it in.
Number 2 is looking like a developing situation - the bad cat offered this today:
vaccines and boosters associated with faster case growth in UK
https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/vaccines-and-boosters-associated
Re: Are we getting settled yet?
Date: 2022-01-19 03:33 pm (UTC)Whew-- quote:
"the sunk cost fallacy is in full effect and careers and credibility is on the line, but facts are stubborn things, and the fact is that these vaccines are accelerating spread.
"they do not protect us as was promised. (and promises were definitely made)
"at best, these are a personal choice to mitigate risk.
"probably, doing so creates a net risk for others because you are more likely to get covid and spread covid.
"the vaccinated are not a dead end for virus, they are crop-dusters for it and spreading it more widely."
# # # # #
Re: Are we getting settled yet?
Date: 2022-01-18 10:35 pm (UTC)Re: Are we getting settled yet?
Date: 2022-01-20 04:28 pm (UTC)On point 4 - latest tracking seems to have BA.2 prevalence down in Europe. May be nothing to see there.
On point 8 - can certainly believe all this sadly, including the denial of the link. Do you have any further thoughts on mid/later-term vixen consequences, especially in light of Omicron's arrival (also in light of your point 2)? e.g. I guess if any ADE was to show up it may not be fatal for the vast majority.
Re: Are we getting settled yet?
Date: 2022-01-20 08:10 pm (UTC)It's very much a "watch and wait" situation at this point. It doesn't appear that Omicron is going to trigger a Red Death type delayed mortality, but it's still early days.
I think that the best model for adverse effects at this point is additive/cumulative toxicity. Think of the spike protein as something like arsenic. If you get infected with Delta you get lots in your lungs, airways, and parts of your brain (based on deer/mouse autopsy studies) for a few days, with much less elsewhere in the body. That can lead to lasting brain fog etc. and an increased risk of various illnesses for some time after. If you get Omicron it seems to stay more in the upper airways. If you get a genetic vaccine your body makes it for some time (a week? maybe sometimes much longer?) and it goes all over: heart, vascular system, vital organs, reproductive tract.
The virus is not harmless, and probably severe infections are worse than vaccination in terms of overall spike dosage. But collectively at this point we've probably put a lot more spike into human bodies through vaccination than the virus has through infection. And it's quite likely cumulative/additive (with the added nonlinear non-toxin-like effects of immune response/tolerance/ autoimmunity). So the shots cause more problems in people who have had the virus. And the virus might trigger more strokes, heart attacks, etc. in people who have had the shots. And now we're giving people four or more shots.
If it is behaving like toxin exposure, like arsenic but if course with a very different mode of action, we could easily see lasting harm and shortened lifespans largely proportional to overall duration and intensity of exposure with of course a lot of individual variation (some people dying after one shot, some people seemingly unaffected by ten of them).
Mark L
Re: Are we getting settled yet?
From:Re: Are we getting settled yet?
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2022-01-21 04:05 pm (UTC) - ExpandRe: Are we getting settled yet?
From:Re: Are we getting settled yet?
From:Re: Are we getting settled yet?
From:Re: Are we getting settled yet?
Date: 2022-01-18 08:39 pm (UTC)Hitting the a vaxxed person doesn't even slow it down. It has become one of the fastest spreading pathogens ever.
How could it not?
We created a huge monoculture, billions of people with the same immune response.
Without our intervention, there would be ever smaller populations of people it could target.
I've read that in those who recovered from covid, only 60% will generate antibodies that bind to the spike protein. In that case the virus will never have a optimal solution, every decision comes with drawbacks.
Not so with vaccinated.
It is the best path of all possible mutations.
Everything we do, like isolating the unvaccinated from society or only allowing the vaccinated to travel, makes this just so much better for the virus.
This is the way I see it at least.
I'm not sure how this will end, but it feels like it's out of our hands entirely. It's too fast and we are blinded by our hubris anyway.
The virus has the vaccinated in it's claws and it will do what ever it pleases.
Maybe we get lucky and it just wants to play.
Re: Are we getting settled yet?
Date: 2022-01-18 09:07 pm (UTC)Re: Are we getting settled yet?
Date: 2022-01-19 03:38 pm (UTC)Taupe Cantankerous Hedgehog
Re: Are we getting settled yet?
Date: 2022-01-19 05:07 pm (UTC)Re: Are we getting settled yet?
Date: 2022-01-18 09:44 pm (UTC)With natural immunity in healthy people with properly functioning immune systems, subsequent infections become milder. A reinfection has a 90% reduced risk of leading to hospitalization. That’s why South Africa had such a mild Omicron wave. Breakthrough infections on the other hand, when the virus bashes through your artificially induced immune response, are often severe.
I can’t emphasize this enough: In South Africa, Omicron was a nothingburger. So why is it not a nothingburger in Europe? Why is it not a nothingburger in the United States?
Re: Are we getting settled yet?
Date: 2022-01-18 10:45 pm (UTC)Re: Are we getting settled yet?
Date: 2022-01-19 12:01 am (UTC)But I don't disagree that there may be a serious issue with creating a mono response to the same virus that may result in similar results that monoculture, antibiotics (anyone ever had fun with MRSA?)etc produce usually after a few generations.
Re: Are we getting settled yet?
Date: 2022-01-19 12:17 am (UTC)I think anyone still using transparently over-the-top fictionalized nazi propaganda terms like "pureblood" and "mudblood" (and who would have thought it could have been made more over-the-top?) used by the Bad Guys from a children's book series needs to uncover the mirrors in their house; and I'm not sure whether their interpretation of the data can be trusted, given the very obvious direction of their emotional investment.
Is it worse for the vaccinated? Or is there a third explanatory factor (age, pre-existing conditions that would have made them more likely to have been sicker either way?) and this person just really really want that to be true? That's what I think when the MSM or Pfist-er. gives me their data -why would anyone from the dominant vaccinated group be open to the data if it's coming from people who are using it to tell them they're polluted or subhuman? Who in their right mind would listen to such a person? How well did that work for those of us who decided not to get vaccinated?
People talking like that is going to make this worse no matter what some viruses do and how well we sort through the data.
Yesterday was Martin Luther King Jr. day, and I had the lucky break to have a couple of disability rights activists come to my Council. They wanted to request that a planned new public washroom be made a Universal Changing Places bathroom - the ones that let adults and big children with disabilities that mean they require diapering get changed comfortably and with dignity, for them and their caregivers (and it's a single, lockable unisex washroom with a wheelchair accessible toilet, hence the universal). They were frequent commenters at my council, and they are very good speakers who also submitted compelling letters arguing that all citizens deserve access to public spaces, and the right to enjoy the cultural, health access and shopping opportunities of their homes. There were a number of times, given the vaccine mandates that are almost universally accepted where I live, that my eyebrow crawled up into my forehead, it was so ironic.
So I took the opportunity to point out that 10% of our population is, in fact, being currently denied those Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms rights they were mentioning, and in fact the barriers extended to them not even being allowed to have people not of their own family in their house, and the rhetoric being used by our prime minister and that was even being allowed to be published in our newspapers would also normally be illegal. So I invited the council and all residents who may be watching to reflect on that, given our Council had unanimously voted and also spoken in favour of the importance of being an inclusive society, on this Martin Luther King Day. I'm certain at least one person decided to dismiss me with the predictable: "but it's different, that's a choice!" argument. Nevertheless, I'm going to extend that invitation.
Re: Are we getting settled yet?
Date: 2022-01-19 09:24 am (UTC)Re: Are we getting settled yet?
Date: 2022-01-19 11:50 am (UTC)You're taking it too seriously; the "Pureblood" thing is mostly a joke, in the vein of any kind of black humour that sees you through a dark time. (And I haven't seen many people use the term "mudblood", which is obviously pejorative and offensive. I would never use it.)
At the same time, it's not a joke, and there's a reason I think "pureblood" is perfectly appropriate. It's going to be a thing, in my kids' generation, that when they're looking for a spouse, there will be this awkward moment in the conversation, when they ask each other, "So... did your parents get you vaxxed during the troubles?" And it will be a deal-breaker for many.
Re: Are we getting settled yet?
Date: 2022-01-19 07:19 pm (UTC)Thank you for perfectly illustrating my point.
Re: Are we getting settled yet?
From:Re: Are we getting settled yet?
Date: 2022-01-19 05:06 pm (UTC)Re: Are we getting settled yet?
Date: 2022-01-19 07:49 pm (UTC)Re: Are we getting settled yet?
From:Re: Are we getting settled yet?
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2022-01-20 05:23 pm (UTC) - Expand