JMG on Hermitix Podcast

[ecosophia]

Once again I'm on the Hermitix podcast with host James Ellis, but this time we're talking about something a little different:  the economic ideas in my book The Wealth of Nature: Economics as if Survival Mattered, which is currently out of print but will be reprinted sometime soon (fingers crossed!) in a new edition from Founders House. 

If you've followed my previous podcasts with James you know that it's a lively conversation covering a lot of ground. This time we talk about the incompetence of modern economic thought when that deals with nature, the difference between money and wealth, and a great deal more. Check it out here on Anchor.fm and here on YouTube. 

Comments

[ivn66]

This is the first I’ve heard of this book of yours, I find the title exceptionally promising. Look forward to giving this a listen.

PS - would be very glad to know when the book is back in print!

[ecosophia]

I'll definitely make an announcement. In the meantime, see if you can find a copy of Small is Beautiful by E.F. Schumacher -- that was the starting point for a lot of my economic thinking.

[michaeliangray]

My gosh, this one was a right cracker. This is how I wish economic were discussed far more often.

Of note is when the discussion turns to the concept of money. Nowadays I am seeing more people starting to call out folks on money talk. Particularly in regards to things like government stimulus packages and corporations dodging taxation. More that once I have seen people calling out “the money masters “ and the cryptic dark language they use to bamboozle people into giving up more of their share of the Pie.

Economists using language in a non linear warfare fashion.

[(Anonymous)]

Sounds great. Of the JMG book's I've read, this one seems to get little attention but is fascinating and offers a great alternative to the stale growth models that the mainstream offers.

I am always happy when you chat on hermitix.

[degringolade]

Truly, he is the only podcast that I follow. I even give him money.

Re: I am always happy when you chat on hermitix.

[ecosophia]

I always have a great time with James, so that's two of us!

Data point

[(Anonymous)]

Wasn't sure where to post it, but thought you might like this piece of data https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2021/9/9/china-sells-oil-reserves-to-lower-prices-in-unprecedented-move

Love it every time you get on Hermitix by the way!

Re: Data point

[(Anonymous)]

Have seen this in mainstream Western news as well. Am I understanding this correctly?
- the West has outsourced its industrial production & production, and thus part of its oil consumption, towards China (at the cost of even greater oil consumption needed to move around the produced goods)
- now even in China the energy costs have risen too high, in spite of the economies of scale offered by the size of its manufacturing capabilities
- so they are 'kicking the can down the road' a bit longer by selling part of its oil reserve to "cheat" the market
- once this strategy reaches its limit, since by definition their oil reserve is finite, more shortages of consumer goods will be added to the burdens of an already creak-and-groaning industrial global system

Does this mean, trouble at the end?? Without oil & semiconductors, err... how exactly can the rich world pursure business as usual?

//Jean-Vivien

Re: Data point

[ecosophia]

Yes, I saw that. Fascinating -- especially in the light of my blog post last week!

Certainly will listen

[escorcher]

Have very much enjoyed your previous Hermitix podcasts. James is sharp.

Did the ancients know about the law of diminishing returns?

[(Anonymous)]

In your book 'The Wealth of Nature: Economics as if Survival Mattered' you have written: "...that the arete, the particular excellence, of a tragic hero also turns out to be his hamartia or fatal flaw". Could this mean that the ancient Greeks had a grasp of the concept of the law of diminishing returns, although, for other reasons, they chose to express it in non-mathematical terms?

Re: Did the ancients know about the law of diminishing returns?

[ecosophia]

Hmm! That's an interesting interpretation of Greek tragedy and, I think, one that could be explored and developed.

Re: Did the ancients know about the law of diminishing returns?

[(Anonymous)]

Thank you for reminding me. Here's an off the wall idea that actually permitted me to start studying occultism. The realization, connection, the idea made me realize the full danger and weight of the situation.

Did the Celtic peoples know about the insane and destructive tendancies of collectivist culture, politics and economics before the ideas such as of socialism and communism were even clarified and recorded in writing in the 18th and late 19th century?

In my opinion, yes, and they wrote and told stories of warning of dealing with such things and how suffering and Death was usually not far behind. I'll leave it to the Archdruid and other experienced druids to confirm or correct my suspicion.

On a side note:
I've already been put down for thinking that the fully armored flying scorpion tailed creatures coming from the Abyss in the book of Revelation sounded oddly similar to what I was told about another group of entities found in Celtic lore. I still dont think I'm wrong to draw up such a conclusion.

Re: Did the ancients know about the law of diminishing returns?

[ecosophia]

Many ancient peoples have stories that talk in various ways about the problems with overcentralization and collectivism. In the case of the Celts, remember that they had to deal with the Romans, so they knew very well what happens when you let yourself be convinced that some big bureaucracy in a distant capital has your best interests in mind!

[(Anonymous)]

From The S.M. Stirling fan list from Mr. Stirling himself, concerning the latest "Fusion is just around the corner because- super-duper magnet discovery" hype: "Iron law of technology: 'costs decline'."

From Dana Blankenhorn, "Twenty years ago, the fall of the American Empire began with the destruction of the World Trade Center." His take: "dat nasty ol' Trump" plus lots of GOP fearmongering first.

Facepalm....

Getting Hubbert's Peak, the Long Descent, and The Wealth of Nature through to these folks is like getting a camel through the eye of a needle.

[ecosophia]

William Catton phrased it best forty years ago: belief in progress is a cargo cult.

[(Anonymous)]

I always felt that that insulted the cargo cults....

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, and one more to add to the list" The Exponential Age of Technology," courtesy of Wired Magazine.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/exponential-age-azeem-azhar?utm_source=pocket-newtab

Audio books, Decline and Fall

[(Anonymous)]

Howdy. I had wanted to pick up the audio book of the King in Orange Monday morning but it was not yet available, and I was in a rush. So instead I purchased the audio book of Decline and Fall, which I listened to while driving for four hours or so out to the Rockies for a four-day hiking excursion. I also listened to it while laying awake, having indulged in my preferred outdoor sleep-defeating concoction (spiced whisky and coffee) as rain hammered on the fabric of my tent.

I found Decline and Fall to be very interesting and informative, and it synergized quite well with an ebook I was reading during the same excursion: Disintegration, by Andrei Martyanov. (I have read his other two books as well.) I was and am impressed.

It's interesting to me how Destiny plays out, through the arrogance, dishonesty, greed, and general incompetence of our various national elites (there's some honest and well-intentioned short-sightedness in the mix, too, I am sure). History has left records for all who can to inspect. Parallels can be drawn. History rhymes. It feels rather like (I conjecture) watching the completely needless and absolutely avoidable derailment of a very long train, except I am one of the passengers.

So now I am listening to Miguel Conner read The King in Orange. I look forward to being impressed all over again by the experience.

Casey.

Re: Audio books, Decline and Fall

[ecosophia]

Thank you! I have to admit that I'm delighted at the thought of someone taking in Decline and Fall in a rainstorm in a tent in the Rockies, too!

The Free Market

[(Anonymous)]

Excellent discussion! I just want to point out there is a truly free market, it’s available worldwide. It’s called the black market, and it’s the only place you can still buy slaves, or all the fentanyl-laced drugs you want.

Regulations exist for a reason. You have to ask yourself “what’s the reason for this regulation?” for each individual one, and then evaluate whether it works as promised. There are no short cuts. And of course, who benefits?

Jessi Thompson
Anotheramethyst

Re: The Free Market

[ecosophia]

In the sense I was discussing, no, the black market isn't actually free. It's full of cartels who are doing their best to rig prices and control supply, and their response to competition isn't the one Adam Smith had in mind -- it usually involves flying lead and a high body count.

That said, I'm entirely in favor of appropriate government regulation. These days we have too much, and most of it is there to support the interests of huge corporations against small business, but the opposite of one bad idea is of course another bad idea...

Keynesian economics

[(Anonymous)]

Gotta love Keynesian Economics. Of course even Keynes perhaps begrudgingly said himself that his system was flawed, after it failed several times before and was confronted by contrary opinions that pointed out his flaws (such as popular libertarian economists from the Vienna and Chicago schools of economics). At least thats what I gathered. Nothing more than maxing out a credit card with high interest rates then getting another and maxing out that one while making payments that hardly do anything to make a dent all and producing less, while attempting to centralize certain functions of society. Eventually with enough debt...you gotta default or file bankruptcy. Inflation results. Of course this is appealing to politicians because they don't know economics and who wouldn't want to get a ton of spending money and not deal with footing the bill?

[brenainn]

Another great podcast. I really like your understanding of conservatism. When I was growing up, the only form of conservatism that I knew was the warmongering, corporatist neoconservatism of the Bushes and Co. I might very well have to start calling myself a Burkean conservative. And on another positive note, I managed to find a decently priced used copy of your book, "The Wealth of Nature" on eBay. It hasn't arrived, yet, but I look forward to reading it. I also look forward to the new edition of "Monsters." That was certainly a very helpful book.

[ecosophia]

If a neoconservative of the Bush variety had shown up at a Republican party county caucus in Idaho, say, in 1950 -- can't get much more authentically conservative than that! -- he'd have been thrown out the door so hard his buttocks would have left a dent in the sidewalk. The total capitulation of American conservatives to corporate liberalism in the 1980s and thereafter is one of the most shameful events in the history of the movement. Fortunately a good many of them are finally coming to their senses.

[(Anonymous)]

I've talked to two anarcho-capitalists online who I believe don't fit your impression: Roderick T. Long and David Friedman. They seem to genuinely believe that their system would be better for the vast majority of people. In particular, they lack the machismo that is prevalent among the sort you talk about.

However, I do think you're right that Long, Friedman, and their fellow "bleeding-heart libertarians" are indeed in the minority.

[ecosophia]

I'm glad to hear this. I think they're wrong, of course, but a form of anarcho-capitalism that pays some attention to the rest of the species is definitely a step in the right direction.

(Just for clarification -- it's possible to go too far in that direction, as in any other. I see anarchism and collectivism as among the best possible illustrations of the old teaching that the opposite of one bad idea is another bad idea.)

[stcathalexandria]

James did an interview with David Friedman and its very entertaining. David states at one of the end of the interview that we just need to be creative to use ever more available resources, there's plenty to go around. At the other end of the interview he speaks grimly of having to limit who can get which resources. James was a bit flustered with the contradictions and tried to call him out of it and I could hear Friedman's hands waving as he spoke.

[smokeybarnable]

Hello JMG and commentariat, I have a question about a Tarot reading. It's a relationship reading, something I don't believe I've seen here before, but I'm newish to cartomancy and this one feels important, so I hope you will be able to tell me if my reading is on the right track.

3 card spread, form of the question,1. present situation
2. best course of action 3. Likely outcome. (Must say I unthinkingly assumed best outcome to be a relationship with a particular woman I had in mind, who seems interested but somewhat on the fence). Cards replied:
1.King of Swords
2.Queen of Cups
3.Death.
Seems to me a potentially important connection, with a King and a Queen, plus a Major Arcanum. As a whole it seems to show not-harmony, with none of the figures appearing to interact or even see each other. Viewed in terms of the question, the KoS shows present remoteness and intellectuality, the QoS suggests action with intuition and emotion, and Death shows profound change, or.. Death. I neglected to specify a timeframe, and death is of course the "likely outcome", so hopefully the cards are showing me the wicked sense of humour they do from time to time.
Also worth noting the two court cards fit our respective personalities well. I, like the KofS tend towards the verbal and thinking (overmuch maybe) and she, like the QofS toward the intuitive, creative, and emotional.

Overall I read this to suggest-
1. Probably very significant connection
2. Worth pursuing
3. Don't expect it to be easy. Obstacles and possible communication issues to be dealt with. And be ready for major change, at the very least. Any thoughts you can share on this would be most welcome.
And 4. The numerical values being closely connected must mean something, but what? In their respective suits 14,13, and the XIII Major. Very much out of my depth on that.
And if I may!
5. The form of the question is an alternative to 1.past 2.present 3.future I picked up from a friend, which seems to work fairly well for me, but have never seen a Tarot authority recommend it. Seem serviceable to you? Any simple tips on how to form a good question in general would also be greatly appreciated, if it's not too much to ask!
Many thanks
WestCoast Swinging WillowTree.

[stcathalexandria]

Listened to this yesterday. Moved up the list to top three of your podcast interviews. James asked questions that went beyond the basic banter and it was like reading 5-6 of your blog posts at once.