ecosophia: (Default)
[personal profile] ecosophia
Sekhmet meditatingI mentioned here a little while back -- I think it was in the process of winding up the discussion on the Sphere of Protection -- that sometime shortly I'd be doing a comparable series of posts on the second core practice of traditional occultism. Yes, that would be discursive meditation, and I plan on spending the next several weeks going over the technique and talking about how to use it. 

Let's start, though, with a couple of details that tend to be forgotten. First of all, there's nothing particularly exotic or, ahem, Asian about meditation -- though of course most Asian spiritual traditions teach it as a matter of course. So did most Christian churches until not much more than a century ago. For a change, this isn't something that got dumped at the time of the Scientific Revolution, when so much of the Western world's spiritual heritage hit the dumpster in a hurry; this got dropped in the late 19th and very early 20th century, when most denominations discarded their remaining methods of personal spiritual practice and embraced notions of spirituality that focused on collective salvation, either by sheer faith and nothing else (the fundamentalist approach) or by charitable works (the social gospel approach). 

So we're dealing with something that used to be practiced by people all over the western world. (The word "meditation," remember, didn't have to be imported from some exotic language; it's from Latin, the normal language of educated people in the West until 1850 or so.) That's the first thing to keep in mind. The second is that what we're talking about is different in a crucial way from the kinds of meditation that were imported from Asia in the late 19th and 20th centuries. Nearly all of those latter methods focus on silencing the thinking mind; classic Western meditation doesn't. Instead, it focuses and directs the thinking mind. That's implicit in the word itself. When we say a crime was premeditated, for example, that doesn't mean that the perp chanted a mantra or practiced mindfulness meditation before doing it; it means that the perp thought it through, planned it, and deliberately decided to do it. 

Western meditation -- to give it its proper name, discursive meditation -- is focused, deliberate, reflective thought. A subject for thinking -- a theme, in the standard jargon -- serves the same role in discursive meditation as a mantra or what have you in other kinds of meditation. You focus your attention on it just as intently as on any other kind of meditation -- but that means you think about it, keep your mind and your thoughts on it, explore it, and understand it. In later posts in this series we'll talk about how that works and why it's so important.  For now, let's start with the first step, which is posture. 

Let's start with posture. No, you don't have to tie your legs into an overhand knot to practice meditation, and in fact for the kind of meditation we're doing, you don't want to do that. The posture to use is the one shown above in those fine Egyptian statues of Sekhmet the lion-goddess. Sit on a relatively hard chair; if it has a back, slide forward, so you don't touch it at all, and your spine is free. Your feet rest flat on the floor, your knees and hips are at right angles, your hands rest palm down on your thighs, your head is straight. Look forward and down, as though at something on the floor a few yards ahead of you. Breathe slowly and easily. 

(If you're already practicing the Sphere of Protection, do this in the space you've just cleared with that ritual. Set the chair in the space before you begin, and get used to doing the ritual around it. More on this later.)

Got it? Now don't move for five minutes. Don't fidget, shift, wiggle, scratch an itch or anything else. Leave your body completely still for five minutes by the clock. Do this once a day. That's your assignment for the next week. 

Unless you've already done this, or practiced certain other exercises that have the same effect, this is going to be much harder than you think. Our bodies are actually full of tensions and discomforts we never notice, and part of the constant shifting and wiggling and fidgeting that most people do most of the time is a matter of trying not to notice just how uncomfortable we are. Confront it head on. Stay still for those five minutes, no matter what. You'll still probably be having some trouble at the end of the week, but at that point we can go on and add something that will make it even worse. ;-)

That's one of the secrets of meditation. It is literally the most boring, grueling, frustrating thing you will ever do -- and once you get the hang of how to do it and why it's important, you'll do it every day, because the payoffs are worth so much more than the boredom et al. 

Five minutes a day sitting in the posture shown above. Got it?  Go for it. 

(no subject)

Date: 2019-09-07 03:27 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
More boring and frustrating than kata? Now that IS going some. Nevertheless, I duly sat still for five minutes.

movement and meditation

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2019-09-08 10:51 am (UTC) - Expand

Re: movement and meditation

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2019-09-08 05:11 pm (UTC) - Expand

Question on Posture

Date: 2019-09-07 03:55 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
For those of us who are used to tying our legs in overhand knots, is there a reason to switch to sitting in a chair?

I, for one, find the lotus position quite comfortable and stable.

Re: Question on Posture

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Re: Question on Posture

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Re: Question on Posture

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Re: Question on Posture

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(no subject)

Date: 2019-09-07 09:05 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
How do we measure the five minutes? Do we count to 300, or are other methods (like a timer) acceptable?

Timing things

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Posture

Date: 2019-09-07 12:30 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Thanks for this series of posts! Its great to have instructions on magical practices freely available to share with interested friends.

I've taken to sitting in the Japanese seiza position during meditation due to not having a chair in my room. What are your thoughts on that?

Re: Posture

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(no subject)

Date: 2019-09-07 01:45 pm (UTC)
jenniferkobernik: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jenniferkobernik
Thanks for this, JMG!

(no subject)

Date: 2019-09-07 03:22 pm (UTC)
aghaveagh: (Default)
From: [personal profile] aghaveagh
First time I visit this blog, first post showing up is about meditation, and describes exactly my reactive thought process about it: "boring, grueling, frustrating". Thank you for the smile that brought. Last sentence taken as a challenge, so I shall rise up to it. See you in a week about that!

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social media

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Date: 2019-09-07 09:36 pm (UTC)
temporaryreality: (Default)
From: [personal profile] temporaryreality
I feel so fortunate. The timing for these "basics" posts has been perfect for where I'm at in trying to establish the fundamentals. Thank you so much!

(no subject)

Date: 2019-09-07 10:18 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Why is it bad to rest your back on the chair?

(no subject)

Date: 2019-09-08 12:07 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I've been practicing discursive meditation since 2013, when I started working through the Celtic Golden Dawn. I thought I was reasonably good at it. Lately, though, I've realized that in all this time I've been mostly just skimming the surface of this practice and where it can take you.

I'm currently unable to practice magic, due to a pregnant wife. I spent a month or two trying out various spiritual practices to fill the void. Recently I've come back to using discursive meditation exclusively, first thing in the morning, with the Celtic Golden Dawn material providing themes.

The experience has been as profound as my first experiences with magic were. I find that the themes I've been selecting have been opening themselves to me, and to my understanding-- using the word in the old sense, not just my thinking mind-- as never before. I realized that, for years, I made magic THE THING, the main focus of my ritual work. I poured all my energy into the pentagram, the central ray, and later the OIW rite... and saved very little for the meditation practice. It wasn't that I didn't meditate-- I did, and some of my meditations were very fruitful. But I didn't always go very deep with it, and if it ever happened that I was short on time, it was the thing I was most likely to cut. It wasn't fun, after all-- it's no light show, like the rituals are-- and if you wrote in the CGD book that it was the most important element of the whole practice, well... Well, I'm not really sure what response I had to that. I suppose I ignored it. Or maybe I thought I knew better. After all, the first course in magic that I practiced (Donald Kraig's book) didn't teach discursive meditation, and hadn't I completed it, and changed my life in the process?

So I guess the point of this post is-- You were right all along. Discursive meditation is the key, and the well is much deeper than I had any idea.

I haven't tried the step by step method you're outlining here, going from five minutes of stillness to (I guess) adding in themes later. I think I will give it a try after the current sequence of themes I'm working through. Today, though, I did add in one new thing. You've always written that the legs should be parallel during meditation, the way that the lion lady's legs in the picture are. I can sit with my legs relatively parallel, but it's uncomfortable, so I've always just let my knees hang open a bit, so that my legs go outward from my body. Today for a few minutes at the end of the meditation I tried bringing my legs closer together. And... it was uncomfortable, requiring a light activation of the adductor muscles. But also, it took a certain pressure off of my lower back that I hadn't known I was carrying. I guess when you say "Follow the instructions as given," you have a reason....

Are there any warnings to be aware of?

Date: 2019-09-08 02:30 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Hey hey JMG,

I'm just curious if there are any pitfalls or dangers to be aware of. I have a vague memory of you saying that you wouldn't recommend more than 20 minutes at a time.

I would like to know how much one can meditate before getting into trouble. I have a couple of months of relatively free time coming my way and I remember you saying something about spiritual development and that the amount of progress was dependant on how much work one put into it.

So, let's say I do one meditation for Learning Ritual Magic in the morning, another on a specific tarot card after breakfast, another on an issue that I'm working through, and another on a book that I'm reading am I overdoing it, are there going to be problems that I'm causing rather than fixing?

Thanks,
Tim

Re: Are there any warnings to be aware of?

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2019-09-08 08:12 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 2019-09-08 04:12 pm (UTC)
neonvincent: For posts about Twilight and trolling (Twilight Fandom wank trolls you)
From: [personal profile] neonvincent
"Our bodies are actually full of tensions and discomforts we never notice, and part of the constant shifting and wiggling and fidgeting that most people do most of the time is a matter of trying not to notice just how uncomfortable we are. Confront it head on."

I am reminded of John Cage's 4'33". If you or your readers are not familiar with the piece (a bad bet, I know), the effect is to make the audience aware of all the small sounds in the hall. It also makes them feel uncomfortable for a number of reasons ranging from being aware of their own body, their own thoughts, and the anxiety of having their expectations of entertainment subverted. So, Cage was forcing his audience to medidate? If so, interesting!

(no subject)

Date: 2019-09-08 04:40 pm (UTC)
walt_f: close-up of a cattail (Default)
From: [personal profile] walt_f
Like many of the practices you write about, discursive meditation sounds similar to things I've done informally on my own most of my life. I've decided I want to learn it better and for real, so I'll be following this series word for word. Thank you for publishing it.

Regarding "certain other exercises that have the same effect," years ago I worked on relaxed breath-holding. (Not for any good reason, though it turns out to be a handy way to win dares.) Sitting motionless is part of my technique for that, and the first five minutes are the easy part. I've also done a fair amount of Seton watching. So yeah, this lesson's assignment hasn't been difficult so far.

I do have a question, though. My posture is quite poor, after spending a lot of time bent over keyboards over many decades. I've been working on that with other exercises, but it still takes near-continuous conscious effort to keep my back straight and my shoulders back. Am I correct in reading that that's what I should be doing? Your instructions above never say to "relax," after all.

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] walt_f - Date: 2019-09-10 12:09 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

Date: 2019-09-08 06:54 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
"Now don't move for five minutes. Don't fidget, shift, wiggle, scratch an itch or anything else. Leave your body completely still for five minutes by the clock."
How much does this include eye movements?

(no subject)

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2019-09-09 01:40 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2019-09-10 05:01 pm (UTC) - Expand

Timely!

Date: 2019-09-08 07:23 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
This was timely. I've lately been realizing that my discursive meditation has been falling off in quality and quantity. I need to reestablish a more disciplined approach to it, so refocusing on posture and then following these posts will help me to get back into discursive meditation as a disciplined habit.

Boulderlovin Cat

East vs west

Date: 2019-09-09 01:08 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
An interesting thing stated in this memoir was that when western people went to a zen monastery, they became increasingly unhappy, I wonder if discursive meditation is better suited to the western mind?

Dashui

https://www.amazon.com/Empty-Mirror-Experiences-Japanese-Monastery/dp/0312207743

Meditation as Connection to the Earth

Date: 2019-09-09 06:05 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I learnt about discursive meditation as a teenager in the 80s while reading a book by a Quaker about classic Christian disciplines. I started doing meditation then, which I have continued on and off ever since, but the posture aspect of the meditation either wasn't highlighted in that book, or else I ignored it..
What I have found since beginning to work with the DMH is that the five minutes of relaxation at the beginning is having significant effects on my state of mind. I find that the little exercise in the DMH where you let go of the tension in all the parts of the body from the head down is something that I look forward to and find myself repeating when I tense up during the day.
When I sit in this posture now, both during meditation and increasingly during the day, with the intention of connecting down to the currents of the earth, my feet tingle. Like many thinking people I have spent most of my life in my head, and the first half of my life as part of a religion where light and the heavens are good and darkness and the earth are bad.
This exercise, in helping me to connect literally with the earth, and imaginatively with that telluric current flowing up from the depths of the earth is truly transforming and balancing the way I live in the world.
So thank you:)

(no subject)

Date: 2019-09-09 07:04 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Olbab here. I have a long history of interrupted and poor sleep stemming -partly- from aches at any pressure points below my waist. Am taking several meds that seem to help. To sit in a hard chair is a small hell after perhaps half a minute. A thick cushion helps quite a bit.
Your comment would be appreciated. Also have typical other old-man back problems but these are probably quite overcomeable.

I was quite an introvert in my youth and found undisciplined occasional meditation pretty helpful in - well, growing up. Still working on it.

(no subject)

Date: 2019-09-11 01:09 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] peter_van_erp
I focused on my breathing, and found the 5 minutes passed quicker than expected.

Sitting

Date: 2019-09-11 05:25 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Apologies if you're not still taking questions on this thread...

Should the legs be together like that? I'm not a lithe lad, so my legs have a tendency to man-spread of their own accord. During my first couple of sessions, I tried forcing them together which resulted in some fatigue.

Is that the point? Or should I just relax and let my legs go to the sides? Not ridiculously so, of course...but I am no Sekhmet.

Thanks for this series of posts. I've been interested in hearing more about this practice for a while now.

-Dudley Dawson.

(no subject)

Date: 2019-09-11 07:04 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I wonder if I'm doing something wrong because the five minutes goes by quite rapidly for me and I find I want to keep going ... ?

I've also noticed that as I'm meditating, I start getting warm. As someone who runs cold, this seems unusual. Is this strange?

(no subject)

Date: 2019-09-12 02:25 am (UTC)
samhays: (Default)
From: [personal profile] samhays
Does it matter whether or not you keep your eyes open? Because I usually meditate with them closed, although my eyeballs are still aimed forward and down as you prescribe. When I do meditate with my eyes open, I like to use a candle flame to focus my gaze. Is that a good idea?

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] samhays - Date: 2019-09-12 10:07 am (UTC) - Expand

oh

Date: 2019-09-13 12:54 am (UTC)
aghaveagh: (Default)
From: [personal profile] aghaveagh
This exercise and this week is my first regular experience at meditation. Did the 5 minutes daily as prescribed. I thought it would be very difficult to perform. I thought I would hate it with a passion.

My impressions so far:

As soon as I begin, I immediately notice how shallow my breath is, and I need to consciously deepen it. It almost feels like I am suffocating.

Very easy not to twitch my arms and legs, and keeping still and straight, but I can't prevent the odd swallowing, or my eyes moving a little bit, if I keep them open.

Easier to do in a room evenly lit, than in the dark. For my eyes especially.

I feel like I just did it for 1 minute, and 5-6 minutes went by. Funny how time does not flow as expected. At all.

My thoughts are not all over the place as I expected they would be. I think they slow down somehow... Hard to tell.

Color me surprised. Big, big time.

References

Date: 2020-12-03 01:02 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Hi! Do you know some useful references concerning western discursive meditation? I am thinking about switching from my Buddhist practice to DM and I want to avoid pitfalls and think that having an actual connection to a tradition is much more important in spiritual practice than many modernists would like to believe. I am interested both in classical sources from all traditions you can think of as well as contemporary writings. I haven't found a lot so far...

Resources?

Date: 2020-12-03 02:18 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Nice (series of) article(s)! I am thinking about changing from a more common eastern meditation style to discursive meditation. So I have two questions.
First, are there any additional resources you can recommend? Both traditional i.e. historical stuff and contemporary books will be most welcome. I like to know what I am getting involved in, avoid pitfall, and use all knowledge that has been collected by those who have ventured into this territory before me.
Secondly, so far I have learned about meditation that is scales well. Meditating three times as much will usually get you more than three times as fast results. Thus, I would like to try doing this for about two hours a day and keep detailed notes. Perhaps I will turn it into an article. Do you have any additional tips for intense practice?
(I have written a similar comment before but can't find it now. Can you please delete it if it shows up? Thanks!)

Re: Resources? Don't over do it

Date: 2020-12-16 04:54 pm (UTC)
davidtrammel: (Default)
From: [personal profile] davidtrammel
Rereading this series. I noticed your comment.

You don't want to over do it, John clearly says that up thread. You might think it gets you quicker results but it leaves you open to side affects. BTW I've found that its best with any of the posts John does to read the comments too. He has additional information that you need in his replies.

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ecosophia: (Default)John Michael Greer

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