Frugal First Friday

[ecosophia]

Welcome to Frugal First Friday! This is a monthly forum post to encourage people to share tips on saving money, especially but not only by doing stuff yourself. A new post will be going up on the first Friday of each month, and will remain active until the next one goes up. Contributions will be moderated, of course. 

There has been talk about releasing these posts in print format.  In case that turns out to be worth pursuing, please note: if you comment on this or any future Frugal First Friday post, you are giving permission for that comment to be included in print or other editions. This means, for those of you into the legalese, that by posting something in the comment thread you are granting me non-exclusive reprint rights to your comment, and permitting me to transfer those to a publisher or other venue. Your contribution will have your name or internet handle attached, your choice. 

I also have some simple rules to offer, which may change further as we proceed. One change from the earlier frame is that if you produce goods or services yourself, and would like to let readers know about them, you may post one (1) (yes, just one) comment per month letting people know, with a link to your website or other contact info. The other rules ought to be familiar by now. 

Rule #1:  this is a place for polite, friendly conversations about how to save money in difficult times. It's not a place to post news, views, rants, or emotional outbursts about the reasons why the times are difficult and saving money is necessary. Nor is it a place to use a money saving tip to smuggle in news, views, etc.  I have a delete button and I'm not afraid to use it.

Rule #2:  please give your tip a heading that explains briefly what it's about.  Homemade Chicken Soup, Garden Containers, Cheap Attic Insulation, and Vinegar Cleans Windows are good examples of headings. That way people can find the things that are relevant for them. If you don't put a heading on your tip it will be deleted.

Rule #3: don't post anything that would amount to advocating criminal activity. Any such suggestions will not be put through.

Rule #4: don't post LLM ("AI") generated content, and don't bring up the subject unless you're running a homemade LLM program on your own homebuilt, steam-powered server farm. 

With that said, have at it!  

Comments

Food Chain Taintology

[(Anonymous)]

These two questions are only indirectly about frugality, so may not pass inspection and will be fed to Fido. However, I have nowhere else to bring up the issues, so here goes. (reposted as suggested)

1) Persistent pesticides being found in commercial compost and potting soil, perhaps even affecting soil amendments from local farm operations. There was some talk about this lately but I do not recollect which forum. If it was here, maybe the Original Poster can repeat which brands or types of persistent chemicals one needs to look out for? I have a very limited budget and would prefer to get the best, safest product for the community garden and home use.

2) GMO ingredients in food products given but not purchased.
I check the labels and do not buy anything GMO'd for my own use. But I received a package of snack food (unopened) and only later saw the GMO badge of shame on it. I do not plan to eat it myself, but thought I might give it to the wild critters on a cold rainy day as better than nothing since I can no longer afford to buy bird seed.

I did a divination and got the answer as I Ching no.22:The image of Grace. Thus does the superior man proceed When clearing up current affairs. But he dare not decide controversial issues in this way.

So the I Ching declines to influence my decision one way or any two others. Do people here have strong opinions on this topic? I would appreciate any thinking on the subject to help me decide.

So far I lean towards the notion that if wild things can thrive in the vicinity of Chernobyl, then they might not be too harmed by GMO'd foods in the short run. Also if I just throw the food 'away' well, there is no 'away' -- it will go into the food chain one way or another. So there might as well be some caloric benefit to vertebrates on a cold wet day. There might be less harm done that way than feeding GMOs to the microscopic soil critters? I see no value at all in letting the stuff rot inside its plastic bag. Opinions yea nay or meh all welcome.

Dilemma Emma

Re: Food Chain Taintology

[(Anonymous)]

I make most of my compost now but accept that even with the organic food I buy, there will always be a risk of contamination from persistent chemicals. How much? Hard to say without fanatically testing every morsel that goes in my mouth. Everyone has a different tolerance level to these substances. I suspect we can handle a fair amount of genetically modified substances. Again, up to a certain point, we'll probably be fine. But beyond? Who knows? Since there's really no escape from this, we'll just have to recognize that life always has a risk.

The animals living near Chernobyl thrive because 40 years of natural selection has killed off the ones who couldn't tolerate the persistent low levels of radioactivity in favor of the ones who could shake it off.

I personally do what I can to lower the risk and accept the rest, while enjoying my food. So, go ahead and eat that snack food, though in moderation of course. Your waistline will expand regardless of whether it's GMO or not, if you eat too much. ;)

JLfromNH/Teal Ecstatic Skunk

Re: Food Chain Taintology

[kallianeira]

Thanks for bringing up the subject, Emma!

I had been under the misapprehension that most food where I live, Australia, was NOT GM, until I looked again.

We grow only 4 GM crops here, but there is basically no way to tell whether GM ingredients are in foods (and they are apparently in most) because so many GM ingredients and stock feed products are imported and there are NO LABELLING REQUIREMENTS.

The all-caring authorities of Australasia state:
"GM foods must undergo a safety assessment by FSANZ, and therefore GM labelling is a consumer value issue, not a food safety issue."
ie because the obviously trustworthy authorities deem GM food safe we need not worry our little heads and indeed have no right to know what is really in our food. So I can't even make the choice you are facing.

You are perhaps remembering one topic of discussion here which has been the long term soil-poisoning properties of a chemical found in manure from horses treated with it. Other posters will be able to fill you in on the name of that substance but you might not be able to find it listed separately on products.
Ingredients in potting mixtures, commercial composts, soils etc here are similarly opaque and the deliberately unclear use of the word "organic" on everything possible is rife. The implied scope error is hard to miss. One organic ingredient does not the whole bag organic make. It is not required to state all ingredients nor the actual type or origin of components in such products. Much of the time one will merely see "added fertilizer", even on compost, in the small print. I wish you well in finding the best of what is available.

Re: Food Chain Taintology

[(Anonymous)]

About your second question. I share your avoidance of GMO in all its' forms and of pesticides and other unwanted chemicals. IDK under what circumstances you received the pkg. of snack food. For future reference, allow me to say that no one is obliged to accept or consume offered food unless one is an invited guest at a dinner party, barbecue, luncheon, birthday party or similar affair. Then one should eat modest portions of what is offered. Having said that, it is perfectly OK politely to decline offered treats. If a simple no thank you is not sufficient, one can always make vague mention of health problems and strict diet.

I would not feed the snack food to critters. They have their own diets. I would either put the crackers, chips or whatever it is in a bowl and offer to guests who don't share my views on food additives, or toss in the garbage or drop in a food donation barrel.

If this item came to you from an online source like Thrive, I might send it back and request a refund. Point out that you don't consider the item a healthy food and they shouldn't be offering it.

About the potting soil, etc., if you are growing out of doors, I urge you to obtain from your library a book by one John Jeavons; the title is something like How to Grow More Food than You Ever Imagined on Less Space etc. The book is famous in its' field, has gone through about 10 editions. Your library either has a copy or can get one. You may need to use organic fertilizers. Those are not cheap. You tube has lots of videos about ways to make your own ferts from common ingredients. Producers of organic chicken and eggs have found out that composted manure makes an excellent fertilizer and extra income stream for them. No extra pesticides because the chickens were organically raised. I know one hardware chain called Running was offering one brand. Another good all purpose fert is Alaska fish fertilizer, a liquid which can be diluted. If you live near the ocean, you can collect seaweed. I also do urge you to make your own compost if you have the space.

Re: Food Chain Taintology

[(Anonymous)]

Here is the book I mentioned above at Thrift books. I have used some of his techniques to good effect. You do not need to let his entire system intimidate you. The system was developed for use in places where famine, starvation and nutritional imbalances were very real concerns. Mary Bennet

Re: Food Chain Taintology

[(Anonymous)]

Emma Dilemma, I am going to try this again. I do as you do, obsessively read lists of ingredients, grow for myself whatever I can and avoid GMOs like the plague they are. I gather the technologies might have some uses in medicine, but that doesn't mean they need to be introduced into our food supply. Especially not when the GMO crops were developed to permit widespread sale of a certain herbicide.

As for the unwanted snack pack, I would probably drop it in the trash or into a barrel collecting food for food banks. For future reference, no one is obliged to accept offered food unless the person is an invited guest at a dinner, luncheon or the like. A polite no thank you should suffice. If the snack pack came from an online source like Thrive, I would send it back with a note indicating I consider this item not a healthy product and I expect a refund.

For gardening, if you are growing out of doors, you basically need a compost pile and maybe a good all purpose fertilizer. I like Alaska brand fish fert, which is made from the residue from commercial fish processing. If I were going to buy anything else, I would look for worm castings, but do check out making your own worm bin.

Re: Food Chain Taintology

[daviex]

A person needs to be careful where they get their compost. Aminopyralids are a big problem. They take a long time to break down in compost, and are commonly used to control weeds in horse pastures and fields growing hay for the feeding of cattle. Aminopyralids pass easily thru the digestive tracts of those animals and I think they are even concentrated in the process. If you put compost or manure with this chemical on your garden it will kill the plants. There is a test you can do, I think you try to germinate peas in the questionable compost and see how they do. If they look shrivelly and weird, the compost is contaminated and you shouldn't use it. Tomatoes are especially susceptible too.

Re: Food Chanin Taintology - contaminated compost

[(Anonymous)]

Here is a link about how to test potentially contaminated organic matter/manure/compost before spreading on your garden or into your compost pile: https://content.ces.ncsu.edu/manage-compost-and-soil-contaminated-with-broadleaf-herbicides-in-gardens

Because of potential contamination, learning how to use cover crops can be a safer way to get improved soil with fewer or no imported organic matter. Some gardeners use interplanted/succession/overwinter produce crops (rather than unharvested cover crops) to fill the same role - it takes more planning but can save money and headaches. The learning curve is worthwhile IMO. www.sare.org has a free book download.

Another consideration is testing and correcting soil chemical imbalance/depletion now, while inexpensive testing and selective fertilizers are available. This can increase garden success and nutrient density, and help prevent mineral excesses (sometimes caused by contaminants). www.soilanalyst.org (also the book by Steve Solomon, The Intelligent Gardener) has some good information. Management is different depending on your soil type. One size does not fit all soils/locations.

Please do share this information.

.

[prayergardens]

Emma,

Re Compost - I don't know if its possible to trust anyone except smaller places that explicitly outline their testing regimen. I've heard to test a bean seed in whatever you buy as they are very sensitive and you'll know in a few days if you've got a contaminated batch. In that case, save your receipt and return if contaminated.

Re: GMO food. Wen use muscle testing kinesiology in our house (not a doctor, not a recommendation, check it out online) for our vitamins and supplements. We use it on food occasionally as testing everyday gets time consuming and we have a good idea knowing what's good for us or not. We haven't specifically done GMO vs Non-GMO testing but if that was my main concern, that is what I would do. I ate Oreos the other day, pretty sure they are GMO and my body would have tested negative on them if I'd muscle tested but since it's nearly impossible to eat perfectly even when trying, I aim for 85% good and let the rest slide since it's going to slip in one way or another at this point, willpower or not. That's my $0.02. Hope you find what works for you.

Brine Pickled Green Tomatos - Preserve unripe tomatos outside the fridge!

[(Anonymous)]

A year ago I had a lot of fresh tomatoes on my hand, and asked here for advice. I got a lot of helpful tips, but wanted to share my experience trying to pickle tomatoes. First, I tried pickling ripe red tomatoes. This works, but over a short time the tomatoes will disintegrate in the jar.

Turns out, it's best to use green tomatoes. I mean, tomatoes a little before they become ripe and change color from green to red. If you grow your own, you can just pick some early. If you are in good terms with a tomato farmer, most commercial operations end up discarding quite a bit of green tomatoes as waiting for everything to ripen is often not economical. I saved green tomatoes from just 4 rows (not even full rows actually), and was able to pickle enough for a year, and I did not even need to waste fridge space, this stuff keeps just fine outside of the fridge, and I live in a hot mediterranean climate.


The method is similar to pickling cucumbers. You can wash the tomatoes (if they were sprayed) and poke some holes with a spoon in each one to let the brine inside. For brine, use a teaspoon of sea salt (kosher salt) per cup. It's best if you have just enough to cover them. For seasoning, you could use coriander, parsley, dill of any other herbs you have on hand and seem appropriate. Cumin seeds, Sichuan Peppers, Mustard Seeds, and Caraway are great. And do not forget garlic, you can preserve some garlic as a bonus, and it adds a ton of flavor. Hot peppers are also welcome. Whatever you have on hand really, and there is no such thing as too much, which is why I did not write a formal recipe.

The tomatoes will float, so put a generous layer of olive oil on top, this will also add flavor. Any other oil will also work but olive oil will taste the best. This step's purpose is to add a protective layer and force the tomatoes down. Leave some headroom, the rule of thumb is 1/3 of the jar should be empty, but unlike other fermentation recipes, here you can get away with a lot less, as there are not a lot of gasses released.

This should be ready in a month or two, wait until the green goes from light to more of a dark army green. One last thought, I know conventional wisdom says unripe tomatoes are poison. It seems fermentation negates that, as I have eaten quite a lot of those in the past year and I am still alive.

This year I am going to try preserving red tomatoes into a fermented sauce. Last year I made fermented tomato salsa, which lasted for quite a bit, but ran into the same problem I had with pickling whole red tomatoes, they disintegrate over time. If anyone's interested in the fermented salsa let me know and I will write more about that in a replay.

I hope this will be of value to people. I barely bought any fresh tomatoes from the store this past year thanks to this.

Re: Brine Pickled Green Tomatos - Preserve unripe tomatos outside the fridge!

[(Anonymous)]

I suppose you do need to put a lid on the jars? Is a metal lid OK? Mary Bennet.

As far as I know, green tomatoes, in the stage you mentioned above, are indeed edible, BUT don't confuse them with the small green orbs which are fruits of the potato plant. Those are toxic, and they look exactly like green tomatoes. It is too cold where I live for taters to produce fruits; if I did see any, I would pick them off and immediately discard them. Also toxic is tomato foliage.

U-Pick

[michele7]

Check out your local U-Pick opportunities. I just picked strawberries from a local farm that was charging $7 for a gallon bucket. I filled three buckets that came out to be a little over 19 pounds. $21 for 19 pounds of fresh strawberries isn't a bad deal in my neck of the woods. My son made a fresh strawberry pie. Our granddaughters munched on fresh strawberries and I froze the rest. The morning we went picking there were five other families, many with children. Usually an online search of "U-pick (name of fruit or veg) in my area" should help you find those farms. We are now heading into U-Pick blueberries soon.

[kayr]

Is anyone growing Good King Henry in their garden? If so, how are you using it?

[(Anonymous)]

It's very easy to grow, has big roots, doubles up and seeds itself with abandon. You can eat it raw first thing in the spring but it gets tougher as the season drags on. I prefer my veggies cooked. It can be fried, steamed or boiled. I like to cook greens like this in a broth with noodles.

I like to keep my perennial veggies in the back of the garden so they can be used "just in case..." Always good to have something around that's nutritious just in case. People tend to get caught up thinking it's all about calories. Stock up on rice, flour, pasta and beans since they keep, but the nutrients that keep you healthy are all around.

Honestly, most plants are edible, not necessarily tasty. It's actually easier to memorize the ones you shouldn't touch than all the ones that are good.

[slclaire]

I tried growing it, but it couldn't handle St. Louis' long, hot, humid summers.

[kylec]

I didn't want or need a cat, but somehow I ended up adopting one who won me over on my evening walks. So far as I can tell, the best cat owner's frugality tip is to not own a cat. Barring that, what do you cat owner's have for me?

My only half-win so far is that instead of normal treats, I bought a pound of ground turkey for a reasonable price and separated it into treat=sized balls and froze them. I thaw him out one per day, and it's like kitty crack. Cheaper than treats, and no questionable ingredients.

I also found a cat tower on craigslist instead of buying a new one--they are pretty expensive.

Other than that I am hemorrhaging money on routine initial vet visits for vaccines and neutering (got the latter scheduled through Care4Paws, a mobile clinic which charges 1/3 what the vet charges). Any additional tips appreciated, especially if you have a magical way to make this 6 month old maniac stop climbing the blinds.

[(Anonymous)]

Re: vet services-- there is an online vet for dogs and cats at https://dutch com

They charge a reasonable monthly fee of $11 and that includes unlimited online access, 24/7. Based on my experience, with conventional vet visits for my last dog till a few years ago, the subscription cost would pay for itself with a single vet visit. There's currently a 30% discount code also available.

I have never used them, nor am I associated with them in any way. But I filed the idea away to investigate should I end up getting another dog some day.

Congratulations, and good luck!

*Ochre Harebrained Curmudgeon*

[kayr]

One thing I found to control wild behavior is to get your cat a buddy. They chase and play with each other and don't climb the blinds. This might seem counter intuitive for cost savings, but it has worked in the past for me and your cat is young enough that there won't be quite the same territorial battles older cats have with others of their kind.

[teresa_from_hershey]

Yes! Two kitties are happier and play with each other.
In our experience, get one male and as many females as you can handle.
Even neutered, the boy enjoys loafing around with his harem and the girls get along okay.

Two males, even neutered, may lead to spraying.

Spinning wool and knitting

[(Anonymous)]

Hi Everyone,
I just darned my heavy wool work socks. I grew the sheep and washed the wool the shearer took off them. About ten years ago, I bought an old Ashford spinning wheel for $100 and have used it to spin an absurd quantity of wool. I use the wool to knit work socks and sweaters.

If you look at the cost of wool yarn today, you may need to go for a lie down afterwards. The price is absurd and the wool often adulterated. I can spin my yarn just as thick as I like it. I knit foot sweaters that are very thick and soft between my feet and my work boots. Once they develop holes, I can spin some more wool and darn them. So what with being able to knit slippers, watch caps, sweaters and socks, I am able to make large savings and be very comfortabley off for work clothes.

You don't need to own grazing land and sheep, you just need to know someone who does. Most sheep farmers compost their wool as they get nothing for it. I am sure most sheep farmers would be happy to sell you a fleece to experiment with.

Maxine

Re: Spinning wool and knitting

[(Anonymous)]

It would appear that knitting shops are being bought up by IDK what private equity company. Naturally, in the interests of the Great God Efficiency, specialty and rare yarns, the kinds sought after by expert knitters, are being phased out. Mary Bennet

beans and rice

[(Anonymous)]

Also, I discovered the delights of beans and rice made with an actual recipe. Beans and rice isn't just cheap, it's really tasty.

I feel like a bit of a fool, but learning late is better than never.

Re: beans and rice

[(Anonymous)]

My all time favorite rice calrose plus acre peas or zipper peas. Blueberry

Preventing lower back pain

[teresa_from_hershey]

Over the years of gym instructors and Navy physical trainers, I never learned a critical step in keeping my back good.

They all said do sit-ups, which do work for your abs AND help move your digestion along.
Then, I injured my back doing too many sit-ups.

The physical therapist recommended that every time you bend forward, especially a lot, to take a moment and bend backwards. Just enough to feel it but not enough to hurt.

This is true whether you're doing calisthenics or lifting boxes.

The idea is that when you bend forward, you compress your spine and thus squeeze the discs. They can actually ooze out from between your vertebrae, which is what happened to me.

When you bend BACKWARDS, you're giving the discs a chance to go back where they belong.

It only takes a few seconds. I bend backward after washing dishes, ironing, weeding, during my calisthenics routines, you name it.

It really helps.

Re: Preventing lower back pain

[kallianeira]

Teresa,

You have just saved some of us a great deal of future pain and trouble (and hence money). Good thinking and great tip.

- iridescent scintillating elver

Does anyone want a cubic foot of dog leashes, harnesses, clickers, etc.?

[(Anonymous)]

Does anyone want a cubic foot of assorted dog leashes, collars, harnesses, clickers, and other dog things?

We are dogless and intend to remain so.
We used the leashes and collars for Fido (70 pounds) and the harness and collars for Muffy (40 pounds).

They're in good condition. I liked a LONG leash so my dogs could move more. Some are metal chain and some are heavy fabric. The collars are normal; not those awful stabby choke collars.

Total weight of the leashes is about 4 pounds.

email me at tdbpeschel @ gmail.com if you want them.

Re: Does anyone want a cubic foot of dog leashes, harnesses, clickers, etc.?

[(Anonymous)]

Give them to the local animal shelter. Blueberry

[linden_matryoshka]

I'm curious to compare notes. There are items that I buy frequently in my small local neighborhood grocery store: bacon, fresh Russian-style cheese (tvorog), and tomato paste, among others. I recently noticed that better quality, more expensive brands have disappeared. The reason I favored them is that they didn't have mystery ingridients. I asked the guy who runs the store about these brands and was told that people stopped buying them as they used to, so the store doesn't order them anymore. Has anybody run into a similar issue?

[(Anonymous)]

Same thing is happening in North Florida. Blueberry

Long Descent read aloud on You Tube

[(Anonymous)]

Frugal in many ways, first you can listen to the chapters narrated by Michael Dowd for free on You Tube ( you do not need to register on You Tube, I havent), this was moved to a 6 part you tube series by his widow last year. Second, it makes getting your frugal work done ( batch cooking, cleaning, knitting, canning, etc...) go by easier and quicker to listen to music or books while you work.

And, it will remind you to go do the things, or re-iterate why you are doing the things. People seem to ask, often on the other blog, about what can we do now to prepare for our changing world ? Well, go give a listen. Buy or borrow to Re-read or go listen to the whole book, but specifically chapter 4, Facing the Deindustrial Age, does have a list of Frugal things to do now. Other things to do are sprinkled through out the book in the discussion of the likely arc of the transition.

Atmospheric River

Re: Long Descent read aloud on You Tube

[(Anonymous)]

Thank you for this information His narration of The Wealth of Nature is also on Youtube.

Antony From Watertown

What to do with purslane?

[(Anonymous)]

Purslane shows up in my garden every summer. I understand it is highly nutritious but IDK what to do with it? Any suggestions? BTW I just cut some nettles to put in scrambled eggs. Mary Bennet

Re: What to do with purslane?

[(Anonymous)]

If you have chickens feed them the purslane. Blueberry

The Rule of R

[(Anonymous)]

Growing up in the South one must fellow the rule of R if keeping or hunting rabbits. Never eat fresh rabbit in a month without a R (May June July August). Blueberry

Re: The Rule of R

[slclaire]

In Missouri it's illegal to hunt rabbits during those months and some others to either side of them. Rabbit hunting is only legal here from Oct. 1 to Feb. 15.

Advice to anyone in the US who plans to hunt or fish: make sure you're doing so legally! Check with whatever state agency regulates hunting and fishing in your state to find out if you need a permit, how to get one if you do, when and where it's legal to hunt or fish for what, how to do so in a legal and humane manner, and how many animals you may possess at any time.