Frugal Friday

[ecosophia]

Welcome back to Frugal Friday! This is a weekly forum post to encourage people to share tips on saving money, especially but not only by doing stuff yourself. A new post will be going up every Friday, and will remain active until the next one goes up. Contributions will be moderated, of course, and I have some simple rules to offer, which may change further as we proceed.

Rule #1:  this is a place for polite, friendly conversations about how to save money in difficult times. It's not a place to post news, views, rants, or emotional outbursts about the reasons why the times are difficult and saving money is necessary. Nor is it a place to use a money saving tip to smuggle in news, views, etc.  I have a delete button and I'm not afraid to use it.

Rule #2:  this is not a place for you to sell goods or services, period. Here again, I have a delete button and I'm not afraid to use it.

Rule #3:  please give your tip a heading that explains briefly what it's about.  Homemade Chicken Soup, Garden Containers, Cheap Attic Insulation, and Vinegar Cleans Windows are good examples of headings. That way people can find the things that are relevant for them. If you don't put a heading on your tip it will be deleted.

Rule #4: don't post anything that would amount to advocating criminal activity. Any such suggestions will not be put through.

With that said, have at it!

Comments

Real world passive solar heat

[teresa_from_hershey]

Your image inspired me to write about our real-world passive solar heat.

Bill bought our house in Hershey, sight-unseen by me. I was back in SC, with 3 kids, a big dog, 4 cats, and trying very hard to dress our house for success so I could sell it and pay for the new house.

Anyway. We moved in to the new house. It came with something I'd never seen before: a Florida Room. That's what the realtor called it. Bill had never seen one before.

Florida Rooms aren't Sun Rooms per se, because they're still outside, connected to the house via an exterior door and a storm door. The Florida Room is glass all around, with huge slider windows and two slider doors, with screens, separated by narrow support pillars. There's minimalist insulation in the lower foot of wall; we discovered when we built a dog door that it consists of a cardboard honeycomb. In addition to the exterior door, two side-by-side kitchen windows open onto the Florida Room, as does a window in our finished basement.

We moved in in July. Because of Fido (his real name) and the kids, I kept the screens open all the time, along with one slider so Fido could access the back yard without me having to be a doorwoman for the dog.

I noticed that the Florida Room warmed up on sunny, no wind days in the winter but not that much. We ALWAYS had to keep the slider open for the dog.

This proved critical.

Then, when Fido passed, I kept the doors closed in bad or cold weather. To my surprise, when all the glass was tightly closed, the Florida Room could become hotter than we heated the house! We'd open the back door, kitchen windows, and finished basement window during the day to let heat bleed back into the main house. As soon as the sun went down, the heat fled and doors and windows got closed. Our Florida Room became a genuine source of free heat, even if it wasn't a well-planned addition like a Sun Room.

When we got Muffy, I knew we needed a dedicated dog-door to minimize heat gain and maximize solar gain in the winter. To prevent too much heat leakage via the dog-door, we hung two layers of commercial, clear plastic rug runner in the opening cut into strips so Muffy could get in and out. This worked fairly well: the Florida Room didn't heat up as much as it did when tightly sealed but if the day was sunny with no wind, it would be 72 degrees out there, while the house was heated to 64.

When Muffy passed, we blocked the dog-door (leaving the opening so a future owner can use it) and the full magic of the Florida Room returned.

Until you've seen one of these in action, it's hard to believe how much heat they can gain in the winter. It's enough gain that for the summer, I sewed sun-blocking lightweight drapes to reduce the heat and keep the sliders open unless it's pouring down rain.

Winter heat is dependent entirely on sun and wind. A fully sunny day with zero wind and it doesn't matter how cold it is outside. A strong wind strips the heat away. A cloudy, windy day means no heat but you're still out of the wind.

Our Florida Room acts as an airlock on the back of the house. I think that even though it bleeds off heat all night long during the winter, it never gets quite as cold as the outside air. That mass of warm air right up against the kitchen probably helps lower my winter heating bills.

If you've got a porch, it can be turned into a Florida Room which is most likely what the previous owners did. We've got cheap carpet installed by the previous owners, overlaid by salvaged rugs by us. We use our Florida Room as weather-dependent, temporary living space. A salvaged couch, table and chairs, and so forth. It's very nice!

So yes, that drawing is idealized but the underlying principle works.

Re: Real world passive solar heat

[(Anonymous)]

I have 2 kinds of passive solar heat in my house also.

The first is I believe the house was designed to have solar passive heat gain, but was not fully implemented. It is orientated to the south, with 2 large south facing sliding doors, and 2 skylights on the southern roof slope, all into the great room ( the house is story and a half, so it has the "distribution" part too, every room opens off the great room) So, gain- check, distribution - check. Mass for storage, partial. There is a thick tile slab walkway down the back of the large room - check, then the back wall first and second story of this great room was not finished in wood like the other walls, but - it is only a single thickness of drywall, so doesnt meet its check off, that should be a solid wall. There is a full foundation wall under it down the middle length of the house, but the owner/builder must have thought the drywall was enough or didnt care enough about the solar design aspect of the house. This is a very simple layout house, I think a mail order plan house, so from a magazine in the early '70's. YOu can see the sunlight from teh 2 sliders and the skylights hit that back area when the seasons change and the sun is lower. And, distributed mass does help, and wood is this in between thing, it poorly absorbs radient heat compared to stone, but it does contribute too. SO, the big wooden table the sun hits and the wood floor help to some degree, as does the heavy metal woodstove and floor to ceiling tile behind it. When I replaced the sliding glass doors in my tenancy here, I made sure to special order them with regular glass ( not low E) to let that sunlight in. The sliding doors have enough of an overhang to not get much summer gain, and I planted grape vines over the deck outside them. The skylights are an issue in the summer ! I have an idea for sliding, insulating covers for them, but I am small and live alone and so far have no way to implement that. Covers like that would also go along way to help hold in heat on winter nights. But, imperfections and all, this house is more pleasant and the heat gain is still a great help compared to neighbors.

The second thing I have is like Theresas example. After the house was built, the previous owners ( who built it, I am the second owner) enclosed the shallow deck on the east side of the house, so a screen porch of sorts. This space was shallow, about 8 feet deep, and 20 feet long. The 5 foot wide slider on the south 8ft wide wall, and the row of 8 or so 3x6 screens/windows along the east. Each opening had either a screen or simple window pane that could be in it, there are clips that hold them in. And that did of course get heat gain during the days when the windows were in, and not hot in summer with the screens. I altered it by putting up a dividing partition and having half, the front south-east corner become even more of a heat gain area by replacing the shingles there with clear corregated panels. SO, this "greenhouse" area is about 8 by 10 feet. It produces alot of heat during a sunny winter day, and I can open the back door and let that heat into the house. I think alot of houses can have inexpensive porch renovations like this, or cover the whole south side of a house like Theresa.

Atmospheric River

Re: Real world passive solar heat

[slclaire]

We contracted to have our south-facing front porch glassed in back in 2011. We put five 55 gallon drums of water onto that porch and use it as a combination cold frame and source of passive solar heat for our house. Here's a detailed post from my blog on it: http://livinglowinthelou.blogspot.com/2013/11/opening-door-to-spring.html

Re: Real world passive solar heat

[(Anonymous)]

Good to see this post. The house I rent has a glorious sunroom, so I know what a wonderful difference it can make!!

The solarium in my house also has a radiator (on lower than the rest of the house) and a heated dark stone floor. It's always nice to walk on it barefoot. The solarium gets the sun directly from noon to near sunset, so it really can get very warm in there. For hotter summer days, the floor heating is off of course, and it has an awning that can be opened or, as need be in windy / rainy weather, closed. The awning works well to keep the room cool.

The downside of such an awning is that, apart from being expensive (I would assume) it requires maintenance. Last year the fabric had to be replaced, for example. But it's very convenient: push a remote control button, awning goes out, push another button awning comes in. In the past, in another house, I kept a large umbrella for shade on my patio, it was a huge wrestling match to get it open or closed, and it windy weather the umbrella would tip over and even skid away. So for this solarium, I'm good with the electric awning, I would think that makes cost-benefit sense overall.

One downside is that birds oftentimes crash into the solarium's windows. We tried various solutions for that, from stickers to various hanging decorations, and including twisted strips of aluminum foil, but what seems to work best is a life-sized plastic owl with a bobble head, oarked on the corner of the roof. I forget what I paid for that, but it was very cheap. To make the plastic owl heavy, so it stays in place, one adds sand or pennies in the bottom part.

Another advantage of a solarium is simply that when one is in it, one is able to see more of what's outside but without the bugs and the breeze.

Yet another benefit of a solarium is that it can serve as a place to keep potted plants, especially small citrus trees that might not survive a freeze.

It amazes me now, but I lived for most of my life without paying much heed to where the sun happened to be in the sky, never mind its trajectory with regards to my living quarters. But in fact taking the sun into account matters quite a lot for managing one's electric bill and one's comfort and health.

Re: Real world passive solar heat

[(Anonymous)]

I think the British 'conservatory' works the same way.

Re: Real world passive solar heat

[temporaryreality]

So we've priced out new builds for our property and that's out of reach. Now we're looking at prefab options. They're really not designed for passive solar, but if we go this route, we're going to do what we can to have correct orientation at least.

I'll have to look through the master conserver documents again to try to figure out what else we can do if we have no say over eave length and dealing with the conflict between really hot and sunny summers and winters that (currently, no accounting for climate change) vary between clear, crisp, windy cold, and cloudy gray, slightly warmer - but not sunny - rainy stretches.

Anyone's thoughts on this welcome (not sure we can afford a Florida Room/Wintergarten situation, but it could be ideal)

Free DIY child’s swing

[jenniferkobernik]

We wanted a swing for our toddler, so we took a piece of scrap 2x8, cut two holes in it with a hole saw far enough from the edge that it wouldn’t weaken the wood too much (if you have a big enough drill bit you could also use that), tied two figure-eight knots underneath in an old (but not rotten) rope from the garage, and hung it over a tree branch. It’s no work of art, but it took about five minutes, was free, works great (even for adults) and is height adjustable by tying new knots. Also not plastic, which personally I view as a bonus.



(I’m on mobile so not sure if the picture will come out obnoxiously huge, sorry if it does).

Re: Free DIY child’s swing

[(Anonymous)]

What a wonderful swing ! We did the clasic tire swing here when mine were young, but your wood swing is more useful I think.

Atmospheric river

Re: Free DIY child’s swing

[ritaer]

Mom made my sister and I swings and a chin-up bar. She did buy new boards and rope--not much scrap in a suburban back yard. She suspended them from the metal supports for the clothesline. I also remember that in windy weather it was fun to run under the sheets as the wind blew them our nearly horizontal.

Rita

Buying beans

[(Anonymous)]

I had company and went to my closest store to buy a pound of black beans, my guest wanted black bean soup and I was out -- While fine since I just needed one pound, I was shocked at the price jump, I dont usually buy this at a regular brick and mortar grocery store, $3.65/pound. Ok, yes, they were organic as my closest store is a natural grocery store, but they were also from the bulk bins, which used to imply lower cost....This is not frugal. Obviously, $5 for a pound of beans and one orange was reasonable to make the meal, but as day to day feed your family, that is showing food inflation ! Housing costs are so high here, overhead for stores must be very high

So, yes, Azure Standard food buying is the frugal winner for around here. They have organic black beans at $2.03/pound if buying a 5 lb bag, and down to $1.57/pound when buying a full 25 pound bag. ( Azure standard is order online, and a truck comes to a local drop spot once a month with everyones orders, the one by me has ALOT of families picking up food and such each month. The semi truck pulls into a parking lot at 7am and everyone heps off load items into a semblance of alphabetical ordered piles.....)

Atmospheric River

Re: Buying beans

[jenniferkobernik]

I really like Azure as well. My area got a local drop about a year back, so no longer have to drive 30 min away. Meet lots of like-minded and interesting people at the drop, too. And sometimes get free pallets.

perpetual sweet potatoes

[michele7]

This past spring, we ordered Japanese sweet potatoes slips online. We planted them in a raised bed, watered and let them do their stuff. After harvesting a pile of sweet potatoes, my husband left the vines on the ground in which they quickly sent roots into the soil to start all over again. We live in a tropical area and sweet potatoes can grow all year round. If you live in a colder area, vine cuttings could probably be planted in pots and overwintered in a garage or greenhouse. In case you are wondering, the Japanese sweet potatoes we got are the Murasaki variety. The skins are purple and the flesh is a creamy color. When cooked the flesh is firm and has a slight chestnut flavor. The skin is thin and edible. In Japan sweet potato trucks drive neighborhoods selling cooked sweet potatoes. They are often eaten as a snack in Japan.

How to deal with mice in the house

[(Anonymous)]

We have mice living in our walls, and so far none have eaten through to get inside our living spaces, except for the basement. We can hear them skittering around in the walls and attic. We have snap traps in the basement and we won't use poison.

We had a pest control company come in and they quoted us a large amount of money to put in screen around the siding where the walls meet the foundation, with one-way doors to allow the mouse to get out but prevent them from getting back in. Seems like a reasonable approach, except that the representative accidentally mentioned that this strategy often will result in more business for them as the mice will find other ways in...

So I'm wondering how everyone here deals with mice? It's hard to find good information online, because most websites Google serves up are from pest control companies trying to turn mice into a problem that needs to be dealt with, and by them.

Thank you!

Re: How to deal with mice in the house

[jdecandia]

Traditionally, we've used cats.

Re: How to deal with mice in the house

[(Anonymous)]

Well……cats.

Especially in the early fall I’ll find evidence of gruesome murder on my stairs, but it’s the way of nature.

Annette

Re: How to deal with mice in the house

[(Anonymous)]

You have to close up all points they can infiltrate. screens, spray foam. Snap trapshave to be set correctly, and there are other lethal traps, there is one I havent tried that is expensive but less than your quote that is highly reviewed, and there are the standard batter powered ones they walk into and get zapped, I have used those and they can work well, the batteries must be changed often if rats set them off. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CC9JF6PV/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_4?smid=AD0XBU34DLMIS&psc=1

To get into your walls means that you should go into your attic and close off all openings to the top of the walls. Move your insulation over temporarily to do so, this will also increase your energy efficiency alot by closing off air infiltration paths. You can also then vacuum and wash off woodwork from having mice as breathing all that for the rest of your time in the house is non-ideal. Then, go under the house and look for any spots, in my house it was plumbing penetrations under the house that were the access points for rodents and tarantulas. I used spray foam. Then I made sure all opening to the under house area were also appropriatelly closed off. Screens fixed and spray foam corners and a new access door.

Go ahead and kill them before closing off access, because.... what if your direct killing methods dont work, then, and only then, you will need to put out a poison. This depends on type you can buy, some types they only have to take one bite, so you put the block out for that short period of time, in the attic or under the house, which ever of the 2 you see the rodent evidence. On the rare occasion I have had to do this, I prefer the blocks not the pellets, because they pellets they can carry in their mouth without biting it, so they will go bacl and forth carrying it to their nest, some other uncontrolled location. SO, with a bait block, you put a wire thru the hole in the middle and tie it to something solid, and then they have to bit it to take any. And if one bites kill them, you dont have over use or over distribution of poison. YOu then check the bait block after a couple days, and if it shows signs of being gnawed on, you untie it and remove it, put what is left back into its packaging and away in a safe place. Never just leave it out "incase" others get into thehouse. This is how it is missused,people buy it and leave it out always, even outside ! I have met people at thehardware store like this ! But, ifnothing else works, you must as you cannot have them in the walls, they chew in electric wires and you can have house fires and it is bad to breath, it affects indoor air quality. But, most of the time, you should be able to kill them. Look at you tube videos about how to properly set snap traps and then go to the other powered traps

Atmispheric RIver

Re: How to deal with mice in the house

[(Anonymous)]

I second the idea of cats. Although I was given a "present" by my two cats -- dead mouse next to my bed -- that was in the first year we had them. I haven't seen mice or mice poop since. I know they are outside though (our cats are strictly indoor) because we back onto woods and there is a pair of hawks that sometimes hunts near our yard. I read somewhere that mice smell cats and avoid the area. Knock on wood, that seems to be the case.

Re: How to deal with mice in the house

[teresa_from_hershey]

Cats. Sadly, you won't know in advance if a cat is a good mouser or not.

You should also go around your house and seal every single opening within a few inches of the ground. Use steel wool (they won't chew through it) and expanding foam.

You'd be shocked at how tiny a hole a mouse can squeeze through.

Re: How to deal with mice in the house

[(Anonymous)]

I have a cat,and she is a great hunter -- but, our cats can only catch rodents in the areas they can get into. So our cats are not in our attics or our crawlspaces under the house. The best thing is to restrict access to those spaces even more so rodents dontget in, but if they are in, traps will be needed as thecat cant get inthere

Re: How to deal with mice in the house

[kallianeira]

Mice with the disease toxoplasmosis lose their fear of cats, otherwise the mere smell of a cat can be sufficient to deter them from coming into living spaces.

For those with cat allergies, there are some breeds that don't set off such an allergy. (Otherwise I couldn't live with a cat at all.)

Also try pennyroyal or peppermint oil in a spray bottle (dilute lots with water and use some methylated spirits to emulsify) round possible entrances to the living areas. I had success with this on stairs from an internal garage to the main house level where there was an internal door with enough gap for them to enter.

Seconding the use of steel wool in tiny holes round plumbing inlets, in weathered building corners etc.

solar greenhouse concept

[(Anonymous)]

There is a fellow in Nebraska who grows lemon trees in solar/geothermal greenhouses; link below.
He has the long side of a greenhouse facing south, and insulates the north side heavily, then backs up the insulation with a large mound of earth. Building a greenhouse into a South-facing hill would be ideal.
He also dug trenches several meters deep and ran U-shaped air pipes from one end of the greenhouse floor, through the bottom of the trench, then up to the floor level of the greenhouse. A small blower fan forces cold air from the floor level through the air pipes, and back into the greenhouse. Dig several meters below the surface almost anywhere in the world, and you reach a level that keeps a temperature of 54 F (about 12C) year-round. The Nebraska lemon farmer can warm his greenhouse to 54F from geothermal alone, enough to keep the trees from freezing thru a month or more of clouds. On sunny days, the sun and geothermal mass warm it up the rest of the way.
**Also** in Summer, the 54 F air pipe provides nearly free air conditioning. Free, if you can find a muffin fan that runs off a 12V battery, charged by a solar panel.

https://www.greenhouseinthesnow.com/

Re: solar greenhouse concept

[(Anonymous)]

That "constant temperature below ground" is actually a myth. It would be constant, if we didn't take heat out of the ground to warm a greenhouse, or put heat into it for summer cooling. I've dug up serious research that measures how groundwater temperature can be changed by geothermal heat pumps, such that the "downstream" homes get less efficiency than those "upstream". So, just make sure that you push heat into the ground during the summer, and you might find that you get air warmer than 54F in the winter. If you have flowing groundwater, and no-one upstream, you might get constant temperature, but otherwise, you'll need to replenish the heat, sooner or later.

Lathechuck

Oregon Homestead Sweetmeat Squash

[(Anonymous)]

Hi Everyone,
I did a trade last summer where one family grew corn, I grew garlic and the third family grew squash. The squash family grew Oregon Sweetmeat squash which looks like a very large blue-grey pumpkin. Author and PhD geneticist, Carol Deppe, bred them to be a huge food producer. Their flesh is very dense and tasty and their seed cavity is tiny. They can keep until the following summer so are a really good food for the Hungry Gap. They roast well and then can be used in savory recipes, soups, curries or just mashed with butter. They make very good pies too. Roasted and mashed squash freezes well.
Deppe feeds them to her duck flock in the winter and spring which is a great idea as animal feed is so very expensive. Sheep love them roasted and the chickens too. I think the Oregon Sweetmeat is an excellent choice for the food garden if you live in a climate similar to Oregon's.
Maxine

print version of Master Conserver docs useful?

[temporaryreality]

JMG, Speaking of passive solar and the knowledge distributed in the Master Conserver program, I have the ability to upload to the print-on-demand-service Lulu and "sell" (at cost) such a thing on my mimeograph site. Just wondering if you think this is a useful idea.

Question about ginger honey

[baconrolypoly]

JMG, I used your method for making ginger honey and started some off on the 25th of October. The ginger released some liquid which sat on the surface but all seemed fine. Two days ago I decided to mix the ginger in and was surprised to open the jar today and find it's all on the surface again. Does it eventually sink by itself?

Re: Question about ginger honey

[ecosophia]

Hmm! I'm not sure what to say. My batch, which was made a few days before I posted, is proceeding as normal; some of the ginger is on the bottom already, and other pieces have sunk to various depths, though some is still close to the surface. I've never had a batch that floated back up to the surface after a month. Anyone else?

Farm cats and ticks

[(Anonymous)]

I know about pharmaceuticals, prescription or over the counter, topical or ingested, that can get the ticks off of a farm cat. Are there more natural or cheaper options that can work as further deterrent, perhaps decreasing the frequency with which pharma is required? Searching the cat's body all over most days is definitely not an option, nor is keeping the cat solely outside.

Re: Farm cats and ticks

[mistyfriday]

I'm not sure how much savings Serresto collars offer as they retail for $60, but they work and are effective for eight months.