Writing Right Out There In Public

[ecosophia]

I’ve been brooding again over how to teach writing, and how not to teach it, and a possibility occurs to me.

I like to teach by mimesis—by doing something, showing how it’s done, and saying “You can do this too, if you want.” It’s a very unfashionable approach to teaching these days, and we could have a long conversation sometime about the number of people in today’s America whose life seems to revolve around finding some gimmick to tell other people what to do—usually, of course, telling them to do something they’re not doing themselves. (Gay-bashing fundamentalist preachers with boyfriends on the side, and social justice warriors screaming hate speech at people who use hate speech, I’m looking at you...)

 I’m not particularly gifted at most kinds of teaching—in particular, I find that I’m usually at a loss when I try to critique somebody else’s work, literary or otherwise, unless it’s either really good or really bad—but I find demonstrating something and encouraging others to follow along fairly easy, and at least some of my readers seem to find it useful. That suggests an option:

Would it be at all helpful to the aspiring authors among my readership if I were to write a novel right out here in public?

I’ve done online novels before, one scene at a time—my novels Star’s Reach and Retrotopia came into being that way—but I’m thinking of something even more transparent: here’s a scene; here’s my notes on how it came together and why I made the choices I did; well, that didn’t really work, did it, so let’s revise it, and so on. If that’s something that people would find helpful as well as entertaining, I can make a start next month.

Oh, and there’s a catch. (You knew there would be a catch, didn’t you?)

If I’m going to do this, I’m going to challenge my readers to write their own novels as I write mine. In public or in private, take your pick, but one of the points of the project is encouraging you to do the same thing, and why not now?

Let me know. Interested?

Comments

[alexseanchai]

oooh :)

[ecosophia]

In the immortal words of the inspector from Young Frankenstein, "May I take that as a yes?"

[aldabra]

Wow.

Do you start with the story in your head already?

[ecosophia]

Nope. I've only just begun to think about what kind of story it's going to be, and I'll be talking through the process by which I come up with the initial idea. From there, the story comes together as it's written. I know there are writers who plot out the entire story in advance, but I don't. I start with an initial idea and let the writing process take me from there.

For what it's worth, J.R.R. Tolkien did the same thing. One day when he was grading papers for one of the courses he taught at Oxford, bored out of his mind, he suddenly thought of the sentence: "In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit." What a hobbit was he hadn't the least idea, but it sounded amusing and interesting, and so he wrote it down, thought about it, started telling stories to his children about this funny creature called a hobbit, and from that seed grew The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. They grew a bit at a time, too. When he started The Lord of the Rings he thought it was going to be another children's book, a sequel to The Hobbit written in a similar style and tone -- but as he wrote many years later, "This tale grew in the telling."

[(Anonymous)]

I love this idea and I will write a public novel if you do.

-Steve

[ecosophia]

You're on.

[stuartjeffery]

Yup, I'm interested! I've continued to work on a challenge you set us all three years ago (the one set 1000 years in the future). I now have a plot, characters and a setting so all I need to do is to string some words together in a way that makes sense...

[ecosophia]

That's where the shoe leather meets the road, of course!

[danielsobieraj]

Oh, this sounds like it's going to be loads of fun! I've had outlines for novels before, even started writing some short fiction, but I always either lose steam or get disillusioned in my own work without letting anyone else look at it. But if I start writing publicly on dream width.... hmmm, something about that sounds nice.

[ecosophia]

Maybe it's just a bad case of Tolkien on the brain, but this makes me think of a Fellowship of the Novel, getting ready for the long journey to Mount Publication...

[peristaltor]

Showing the process and the notes, the revisions and decisions. Hmmm…. Yes, it could be interesting, in that I'm not aware of anyone else who's done it. It would be both creation and ongoing autopsy.

I only worry that any in your readership prone to insecurity, OCD, etc., might see the myriad decisions that go into a novel… and paralyze themselves even further. ;-)

[ecosophia]

I suppose that's possible, but they're going to have to suck it up and face that one way or another if they're going to write, aren't they?

Could be a good prompt

[(Anonymous)]

I was planning to write a couple more short stories as practise before trying a novel, but writing as part of a group exercise could be a good way to encourage productivity!

Now I just need to go do that final edit on my OSS story :-)

Damo

Re: Could be a good prompt

[ecosophia]

Get that edit done! It's a good story, and the deadline for final edits is creeping closer and closer...

write-along

[katsmama.com]

It sounds fun- I'm game.
The approach you suggest is occasionally used in schools- I teach middle school, and we call it using a "mentor text". We guide students through looking at a (usually) published work, then think out loud while drafting our own version, then give the students time to draft a version themselves. So, if the target is dialogue, we look at a passage with dialogue, break down how the mentor writer did it, then I model it with my characters, then the kids practice it with theirs. The tricky part is giving enough time for the kids to work, without me talking all the time. Trying to be a guide on the side, rather than a sage on the stage.- Katsmama

Re: write-along

[ecosophia]

Fortunately, since I have a lot of other things to work on, this project is going to be moving ahead at a fairly leisurely pace, so the other participants will have plenty of time!

[(Anonymous)]

Count me in!

Will J

[ecosophia]

Welcome to the Fellowship!

[(Anonymous)]

What a cool idea! I'm in. Would you want people to start from scratch, or would it be alright to rework an existing project?

Marie

[ecosophia]

Do whatever works for you. I'll be starting from scratch so I can talk about how the initial stages go, but as Aleister Crowley didn't say but probably should have, "Do what keepeth thou from wilting shall be the loophole in the Law."

[ecosophia]

Welcome to the Fellowship.

[neonvincent]

I'm all in favor of this, but I'm not a fiction writer, at least not with my own characters. I'm a non-fiction writer. Should I write a non-fiction book instead?

[ecosophia]

Why not with your own characters? Fanfic is all the rage these days, and it can be a useful exercise, but to me it's always felt as though people who get stuck in fanfic are losing the chance to really spread their wings as authors and fly: to come up with their own characters, situations, and settings, and experience the dizzying freedom that comes with creating from scratch. Consider giving it a try!

[jolbytlan]

Long time avid reader who has only commented a couple of times, logging in to say that I'm very interested in this, and will gladly try my hand at expanding my writing to the novel form.

[ecosophia]

Delighted to hear it. Welcome to the Fellowship.

[(Anonymous)]

I'd love to see how other people do it and I'd write along, though not a novel.

[ecosophia]

By all means write along, and if your story turns into a novel, don't deny it the chance to shine.

Interested

[(Anonymous)]

I am definitely interested! I would say though that you have given very good advice to aspiring writers already, such as setting a certain amount of time out of the day for writing( even if you are just writing whatever random thoughts come to your head at that moment), turning off spellcheck if writing on a computer, refraining from editing as you are writing, etc. These have all helped me finally start writing. I have only got about a page of an actually story so far, but it’s a beginning.

-Dan Mollo

Re: Interested

[ecosophia]

Glad to hear it. We'll be discussing a lot of little tricks like that as we go.

[(Anonymous)]

Definitely interested. How magnificent.

[ecosophia]

I hope it turns out that way!

This should be interesting!

[ferngladefarm.blogspot.com]

Hi John Michael,

Well this will be an interesting learning opportunity. I for one am interested in the technical side of how the characters conduct their dialogue within the larger story.

Hopefully, you get to make those words into a marketable book too.

To be honest, I wouldn't worry about the critiquing side of things when you are faced with requests like that. From what I've read from other authors, people expect the world, get annoyed when they receive genuine critique, and then are rarely thankful for the service. In short, it's a mugs game and ignoring the request is the best approach! Most people want to believe that they are a diamond in the rough, their work is genius, and it is just circumstances that have stopped them from whatever... I see that in people all of the time.

I've trained people for many years and it is a one on one, and face to face process, and that seems to be the most effective way for these things to occur. The thing is the social cues are still there in the written words, but they are very hard to ignore when they're right in front of you! Your suggestion for this learning process is an excellent middle way.

Incidentally, I did take up your excellent suggestion many years ago about writing a million rubbish words before something of any quality can appear! Hehe! I realise that you were quoting someone else, but it was a good idea. At the moment, I'm a bit under half way there, and there is some definite signs of improvement - if I say so myself! ;-)! Alas few people have that sort of work ethic, and I wouldn't sell it either, because then I wouldn't have it. Just sayin...

Cheers

Chris

Re: This should be interesting!

[ecosophia]

I originally got the million-word thing from George Scithers, who was the editor of Asimov's Science Fiction Magazine when I was first trying to break into print. It certainly worked for me. ;-)

I am considering this

[(Anonymous)]

From what you say about teaching by mimesis, I think that’s how I will do it too, should I wind up teaching drawing, painting, geometry or perspective.

Years ago I wrote the script to a graphic novel, intending to execute it in drawings. I later realized that (a) comics aren’t really my medium, and (b) my story has major problems that will require a substantial rewrite. If I do it, I intend the product to be a lavishly illustrated light adventure fantasy novel. I haven’t decided to commit to this, but am thinking it over.

Kevin

Re: I am considering this

[ecosophia]

Hmm! You could also write the novel as a novel, and have a series of illustrations in black and white to go along with it -- that used to be a fairly common approach, and it's still something people enjoy.

[(Anonymous)]

I would find it fascinating to watch you go through the writing process online, but the thought of writing something myself publicly is a bit terrifying. I really enjoyed reading Star's Reach and Retrotopia in installments, and I would learn a ton from reading as you go through revising and editing scenes.

I just strongly doubt that I'd have the time and inspiration to write something along with - ever since the baby was born it's been all I can do to show up at work functional and not wearing bodily fluids on my clothing... So if the challenge is somehow a prerequisite for reading along, I think I'd have to pass on this one, interesting as I would find it no doubt.

[ecosophia]

Dozens if not hundreds of people will be reading along from the sidelines without writing something themselves, and if you've got a baby on your hands you get a free pass anyway. Just remember, you can read this journal even if you have bodily fluids on your clothing!

Count me in, if...

[(Anonymous)]

I can use the messy work already in progress.

Re: Count me in, if...

[ecosophia]

By all means. The first few rounds of discussion may not teach you very much, since we'll be starting with how to get started -- though you may learn a trick or two for next time.

[(Anonymous)]

I would join in on this. There is an future fiction world that has been growing in my imagination for over a year, just begging for a story. I have tried short stories a couple times, but it seems resistant to short format. A novel group would be a novel idea, and one i would like to take part in.

I am excited for this.

[ecosophia]

Welcome to the Fellowship!

[drhooves]

Hi JMG - not only do I think you've got a great idea to help others get their creative writing skills uncorked, it's also a quite a generous gift from you to contribute your time. Triple thumbs up for that! I've always thought that learning by example is very effective.

In the last couple of years, I've had a chance to take two creative writing courses and attend a four part workshop - and I've really learned a lot. One thing I wanted more of is what I would describe as "constructive feedback", as most of us were pretty hesitant to be too critical. But it's my opinion that issues related to grammar, spelling, and conveyance of thoughts are always fair game, while opinions on idea, content and style need to be handled more delicately. I also found that reading the work of others and how they handled the revision process was very fruitful.

Like Chris, I'm about halfway there in getting the million bad words of writing out of the way, and I do have some near term projects to up the total before starting on a couple of more serious ones. So if the Fellowship hasn't exceeded its capacity, I'll toss my hat in the ring, so to speak....

[ecosophia]

Nah, there's still plenty of room in the Fellowship.

I'm not going to encourage criticism in this project, though of course those who want criticism and are posting sections of their novel in public can request that from their readers. To my mind, at least, too many people who try to write pay too much attention to other peoples' expectations too early, and never learn to listen to themselves and develop an inner creative life that's separate from the pressures exerted by audiences and markets. Thus I want to focus on ways that writers can develop the necessary skills of wordsmithing themselves, in private, with some help from a few dead authors. More of this as we proceed.

[(Anonymous)]

Absolutely!

The OSS contest appears to have broken a long-standing logjam in my brain and now stories are coming out of my ears. Short fiction, though, and some novella-length. I'd like to find a way to craft the several unfinished/unwritten novels that live in my head, so this would be an excellent opportunity. Thank you.

David, by the lake

[ecosophia]

You're welcome. To mix metaphors, climb aboard!

[(Anonymous)]

Well I'll certainly be an enthusiastic supporter from the sidelines. Already, too much on my plate has made me set some writing aside, hopefully only briefly. Having a writing mentor who shares process, mistakes and successes has been helpful to me. Holly Lisle does a great job at this (with many free resources)* - funnily enough, a small group of her students, myself included, formed a generative, up-building (as opposed to down-tearing through "critique") group called the Fellowship of the Muses. :D

Speaking of which, will you also be tying in any of your magical practices as they relate to your creative work? I'll probably ask a follow-up (to my previous) magic Monday question along these lines, but just wondering as I'm recognizing how my writing is frequently stalled while waiting for consciousnesses/will to catch up with each other.

Wendy (aka temporaryreality)

*not trying to distract from or compete with what's going on here, just mentioning her in the spirit of writers helping writers which is much preferred over the terrible practices brought up in your previous post on writing groups.

[ecosophia]

I don't use magical practices in my writing. Some of the skills I've developed through magical training come in handy, sure -- on the one hand, certain modes of free association and spontaneous imagery, and on the other, the will training necessary to buckle down and write when I don't happen to feel like it -- but these are things anyone can learn, without benefit of flickering candles and words of power. Yes, I'll discuss some of them as we proceed.

[orathbone]

This sounds like fun. I've got a 12,000 word dissertation to write in the next couple of months but this will be a welcome change. Count me in!

[(Anonymous)]

Totally understand where you are coming from. I was quite done with mine by the time it was finished and I didn’t want to look at it again for a long, long time. These days, I heartily recommend it as a sleep-aid for insomniacs ;)

David, by the lake