JMG on Infinitesimal Dialectic Podcast

[ecosophia]

Another podcast for your listening pleasure, with JMG talking with host Hawk Zatar about my novel Retrotopia, and the distinctly odd reactions it's fielded, both from readers and from the actors in Hawk's theatrical production of the original episode-be-episode blogpost version. A good lively hour of conversation was had!  Check it out here. 

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Wait-there was a theatrical production of Retrotopia? Does that mean we can look forward to Weird of Hali-the musical with tentacles?!? I am so ordering tickets...

[ecosophia]

Yes, back when Retrotopia was coming out as a series of blog posts, Hawk did a small-scale theatrical production of it. That's the first of my works to find its way on stage, though my nonfiction book The Long Descent inspired a modern dance piece titled Rise and Fall, which was performed several times in a small New York venue, and I think there's been a half dozen heavy metal pieces from various bands inspired by my books about the future. A Weird of Hali musical would be fun, though it would have to work off just one volume; my highest and most improbable hope, though, would be to have Studio Ghibli do The Shoggoth Concerto as anime.

[mo_drui_mac_de]

I’m now super curious about these Long Descent, Dark Age America-themed metal acts.

[ecosophia]

It's been a few years and I don't think I still have the notes, but there were a couple of bands that contacted me to let me know about their songs (and in one case, an album).

[isaac_hill]

My folk band put out an album in '16 that was partly inspired by reading lots of ADR posts: https://thehillsandtherivers.bandcamp.com/album/apocalyptic-dreams

[tunesmyth]

Isaac, that was a great album. I really enjoyed it. Thank you for sharing.

[(Anonymous)]

Studio Ghibli do The Shoggoth Concerto as anime?
I am surprised that you didn't hear my 'squee!' from New Zealand
I'd also confess to a lurking dread that they might do it wrong
Would you be able to watch flickering images for that long JMG?

[ecosophia]

Oh, I know they'd change things and it wouldn't look at all the way I imagine it. They'd probably give Brecken blue hair and deep-six the sexual aspects of the story. I don't know if I'd watch more than short clips, but it would still be fun.

Another Kiwi at last!

[sea_spray]

So there are more kiwi's on here! Nice to "meet" you and good to know I'm not the only one in this country who comes here.

Re: Another Kiwi at last!

[(Anonymous)]

Long time lurker, occasionally posting when I can express a coherent thought.
I'm sure I've noticed a few other kiwi's here or at the Ecosophia blog. Maybe on one of the open posts we should try to get an idea of where people are from?

In A Retropian Mode

[sothismedias]

Hi JMG,

My wife just read this for the first time and loved it, and I just re-read it after her. Look forward to hearing more about the theatrical production. Next up is to re-read The Retro Future.

You mentioned awhile back you would be announcing something related to Retrotopia when you were fielding inquiries about people wanting to do fanfic. Is the theatrical production what you were going to announce? It seemed like you had a project in mind for your readers...

On another note, though you might not condone Retropia fanfic, I think deindustrial fiction could do well with fiction that is in a Retrotopian mode. Stories set in the future using the tools and vast resources of the past. It need not at all be set in the fictional world you created.

In any case, this is of course a fan favorite and beloved work of yours. On to listening to the podcast.

Justin Patrick Moore

Re: In A Retropian Mode

[ecosophia]

No, the thing I have in mind is a little different; I'll be posting about it in the near future.

Canals, yay.

[sothismedias]

Also, I get excited about thinking about the return of the canals. On my paternal side, the whole reason we ended up in Ohio is because my German ancestors came over here and helped build the Miami-Eerie Canal, and when they had enough money to buy a farm, plopped down in Fort Loramie. Fort Loramie and the nearby town of Minster, both have man made lakes. Grand Lake St. Mary's was a feeder lake for the Miami-Eerie Canal, and that part of Ohio sits at an elevational high point of the state. To the north it flows to Lake Eerie. To the south of the lake it would feed the canal down to the Ohio river. I still have cousins and relatives up there. It's a fun town to visit and I love seeing those portions where the canal is still in tact.

Re: Canals, yay.

[(Anonymous)]

One of the upsides of living in Ohio is seeing the possibilities of the retrofuture creeping through the remains of modernity… kinda like waking up to unicorns nibbling on suburban landscaping.

Kessler Syndrome

[sothismedias]

...I have a lot to comment on in regards to this as I listen to the podcast...

Elon Musk is surely ramping up the inevitably of the Kessler syndrome coming into play more quickly with his launches of whole fleets of satellites -just to provide us (or inflict on us) a crummy metanet service.

Metanetting "Elon Musk Kessler Syndrome" I was surprised to find criticism of him in this article from the Sun laying down the facts:

https://www.the-sun.com/lifestyle/tech/723841/starlink-satellite-space-junk-kessler-syndrome-explained/

Of course ruining the view of the stars is also nutty. Even for those of who live in the city and have to deal with light pollution.

Re: Kessler Syndrome

[ecosophia]

At this point I think it's probably just a matter of time, and not necessarily much time, before we get a Kessler syndrome in low earth orbit. I hope the people in the International Space Station are able to get back to earth safely when that happens.

Re: Kessler Syndrome

[(Anonymous)]

One of my friends is getting a degree involving orbital physics and says if the current starlink project goes ahead every model she ran says five years tops. And quite a few of those that lasted that long used very unrealistic assumptions. She says she really hopes she's wrong, but that even if she is, an exra few years wouldn't matter that much in the grand scheme of things....

Re: Kessler Syndrome

[ecosophia]

That seems about right.

Re: Kessler Syndrome

[brendhelm]

For what it's worth, I just did a geomancy reading on this - "Will there be a Kessler syndrome in LEO by 2026?", treating it as a 9th house querent (because it's something in outer space) and a 12th house quesited (4th from the 9th, the end of something in outer space). I got perfection by conjunction through Rubeus, with the caveat that the 9th house is Cauda Draconis (but then again, this is a question about the end of something, and something I have no control over at that.)

Worth noting that this particular chart also perfects if I treat it as a 6th house querent/9th house quesited (thinking of satellites as a "service"), translation through Rubeus in 7th and 10th, or if I treat it as an ordinary 1st house querent/4th house quesited (conjunction through Rubeus in the 12th), or between the 1st and 9th house, or between the 1st and 6th house.

In all these cases, furthermore, the perfection is accomplished through Rubeus. Figuring out what that could mean strikes me as a good theme for meditation.

Re: Kessler Syndrome

[michaeliangray]

Kessel syndrome is such a funny thing to predict. The original creator of it has since said they may have over stated the likely hood of it happening as they originally thought we would be in that position by now. That is not to say that the theory is wrong, more the timing on it.

The things is, it is already in its early stages. The ISS folks routinely have to shelter in the launch pod when they detect objects that will pass width in 1km of the station just in case.

The rate of satellites being knocked out of action each year is increasing, it is only in the early stages so far so the exponential nature of it is still hard to see. A few satellites a year is fine, a few dozen is bad, hundreds is a disaster and it can get to that state very quickly.

And then there is the 2009 Satellite collision - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_satellite_collision

There is still about 1,500 pieces of shrapnel from that single event still in orbit (as of 2016). And we haven't slowed down one bit on throwing these things up there. Things will start to get a lot more interesting in the next decade on this front.

Re: Kessler Syndrome

[brendhelm]

For every x satellites in orbit, there are (x(x-1))/2 possibilities for a collision (the triangular numbers), and if the collision happens to cause anything to break off, well, you've just created a new satellite.

That could be the meaning of the Cauda Draconis in my geomancy reading about it - "It's already happening."

Laser Broom

[sothismedias]

File under: "They'll think of something."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_broom

Re: Laser Broom

[ecosophia]

I think that's using the same technology as Dr. Who's sonic screwdriver...

Re: Laser Broom

[(Anonymous)]

Has anyone looked at what that would do to the atmosphere? Somehow I think firing an incredibly powerful laser into space might introduce just a little more heat than is wise.....

Re: Laser Broom

[michaeliangray]

Truth be told it would probably be very minimal in terms of heat absorbed by the atmosphere. By that I mean, we have set off literally hundreds of nukes over the last 70 years and that did practically nothing to the atmospheric temperature, a laser is nothing compared with that. More energy is probably deposited daily from lightning strikes than what we can do with lasers.

The bigger issue is, there have been proposals on how to fix these issues for a few decades now. None of them have ever got off the ground. They cost too much to build and operate, nobody wants to foot that bill and it doesn't provide any immediate reward. Like most things in man kind, we will only try to solve problems once it is directly impacting us, by that point it is far too late. Fukushima is a good example.

One of the issues that I see with these solutions is the scale. It takes a massive amount of energy to destabilize an orbital object once it is at speed, it is just economically non viable regardless of the technology viability.

It reminds me of the idea of making oil out of air-carbon capture, it takes more energy to do it than was ever released in the first place. It is a dead in the water idea.

[kevintaylorburgess]

I've started reading the ADR posts where Retrotopia first appeared, and you're quite right: watching how creatively people misunderstand it is quite amusing!

[ecosophia]

It was colorful. ;-) The only thing like it is the way that some of the readers of the original, serialized-online version of Star's Reach kept arguing that there had to be someone somewhere on Earth still doing the advanced-technology thing...

[(Anonymous)]

You mean as in “The Dark Age” by Clark Ashton Smith? (Giggle.)

[ecosophia]

Why, yes. It was a shiny new idea when Smith wrote about it, too.

[(Anonymous)]

I found the technology in Star's Reach quite advanced when I read it....

[(Anonymous)]

By the way, that English comp class I wrote using Retrotopia still gathers dust on an electronic shelf. I got paid, but I’m not happy. Sigh. Gotta start me a hedge school.
And… I wasn’t going to post that… but…
Thunderbolt.
I just joked the Green Wizards’ education program into existence, didn’t I?
On it.

[ecosophia]

Yep. I'll look forward to seeing the results.

[michaeliangray]

A few points on when you mention modern art.

I know of a few people that are very into modern art and free form jazz, even they have admitted to me that there are brief times when they doubt it all. The thought of "Is this really good art or is it something my 5 year old can make?". A moment of lucid sanity before they drift back into the mental cloud.

A big part of this modern art movement is the funding that Harry Truman provided to artists in the 1950's, folks like Jackson Pollock, to demonstrate the 'free will nature' of capitalism vs communism. It was also to stifle those artists that were trying to actually send a message. To be fair to Pollock, at least he didn't use artists statements on his works.

[ecosophia]

As part of a current book project, I've been reviewing the history of modern art, and in particular the way that it's been propped up like a mummified corpse by the iron triangle of art schools, art museums, and funding sources such as the National Endowment for the Arts. Truman's funding is something I should incorporate in the argument, so thanks for this!

Ham radio

[sea_spray]

I had no idea you had a ham licence! I'm in the process of getting mine now.
Do you get time to get on the air much these days?

You may already know but I saw in "the new astrologer" by martin Seymour-smith that a certain John H. Nelson had done some interesting work on the effects of planetary positions on SW radio reception.

Re: Ham radio

[ecosophia]

Unfortunately not! I'm looking forward to having some time on air down the road a bit.

-- 73, AD7VI

Re: Ham radio

[jpc2]

Now that is a call!

NJ0C

[(Anonymous)]

Hi JMG,
You may find this news interesting:
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/08/24/gree-a24.html

[ecosophia]

Another sign of desperation on the Democrats' part...