Found on one of those awful fascist pro-Trump sites and posted here without comment

[ecosophia]

 

Comments

hmm

[dfr1973]

You sure you didn't make this? Everything there sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

Re: hmm

[ecosophia]

It made sense to me too, oddly enough. ;-)

[moondog79]

I saw my dad post this on social media. I "liked" it because I thought for him to share a meme expressing acceptance toward homosexuals was quite a step in the right direction.

[ecosophia]

Agreed! I've been seeing a lot of that among the pro-Trump crowd, especially now that a lot of gay men have been joining the #walkaway movement.

[(Anonymous)]

it's a trap!

[ecosophia]

No doubt.

;-)

[(Anonymous)]

"a country that used to value such things"


This has never been the case. FORCE is the only constant throughout our history , and really the only thing that gives this county meaning. We forced the native population off the land, then the Mexicans out of the south west. We forced slaves to work the land in the south, the poor whites to the factories of the North. When the British Empire fell we enforced our will overseas and lets not forget the endless assault on the natural word at home. It never ceases to amaze me the number of full grown adults of a specific generation pine for the good 'ol days that are completely oblivious to this. This doesn't get erased with feel good throw away sentiment. There is a cost for our collective hubris that has yet to be paid. Closing your eyes and chanting there's no place like home may not be the greatest strategy when your about to get hit in the face with a sledgehammer.

[ecosophia]

That's an incredibly simplistic and prejudiced approach to American history. May I suggest you lay off the propaganda for a while and try reading some actual history instead?

[ecosophia]

And by the way, did you notice that the thing I posted was talking about how we treat people here and now, not about history?

[smwils1]

We FORCED the South back into the Union in a campaign of terror...

[(Anonymous)]

Would you mind sending a link? I want to be able to trigger some meltdowns ;)

[ecosophia]

I just scrolled back through twenty screens on the place I found it a few days ago (the Reddit community /r/The_Donald) and couldn't find it. Can anyone else point me to a source?

[(Anonymous)]

This is the way I feel, too. I don’t care if you think you are a pansexual genderqueer cisheteropatriarchal red panda otherkin, but if you keep trying to force me to become as obsessed with you as you are obsessed with you, I’m going to get cranky.

[ecosophia]

Ding! We have a winner.

And of course that's just it. There are social problems that can't be solved with a good healthy dose of "you do what you want and I'll do what I want," to be sure, but there are also quite a few that can...

[avalonautumn]

WOW! Thanks for this! Made me laugh hard, and right now, laughter is needed so badly.

[(Anonymous)]

One issue with this in my experience is how "force" is being defined. Most of my immediate and extended family are conservative Christian Trump voters, and to them, the fact that gay people are allowed to get married now or that people choose any number of different lifestyles that are morally offensive to them is society "forcing" them to accept lifestyles that they vehemently disagree with. But they are perfectly willing to "force" their lifestyle and morals onto others without seeing it as "force" at all because to them, it is just the natural state of the world that everyone should already be following. Needless to say, I've had many dead end conversations on these topics exactly because of the difference in perception of what it means for people to "force their ways on others".

[ecosophia]

That's one of the reasons I like this statement: it includes two of the hottest of hot button issues in the US today -- same-sex marriage and gun ownership -- and applies the same logic to them, making it a little harder to pursue the kind of one-way logic you've described.

[violetcabra]

well dang! I can relate -- I have friends who are married gay men, Christians, atheists, potheads, people who love guns etc. I fee equally at home on a farm, backstage at the community theater, or at a library hours into Greek myth or history. You meet all sorts of people in all sorts of places -- including in your imagination reading a book! -- and with a little forbearance and giving the benefit of doubt and offering an easy laugh and an honest smile, it really is surprising who can be friends who who!

I have a hypothesis that I should like to present: people really miss the mark inflating rather trivial aspects of identity. For instance, my trans rarely comes up in my day to day life, and usually, when it does, I change the subject to anything more interesting. And with some friends we've actually never discussed it at all. It is, ultimately, as incidental as my hair.

Likewise, smoking marijuana, and eating burgers don't suffice to form any sort of real identity. I question if any single mundane detail can really supply a full identity; when I'm with another what I tend to think as them is a certain spiritual energy that enlivens a body and causes a shininess in the air, and I tend to think that their identity consists of that mysterious, spiritual force. The incidental aspects of their life, not so much.

I especially find the meme's discussion of religion heartening, because that is one area of life that often has very deep dimensions. With Christians, and atheists for that matter, I tend to try avoiding discussing my religious experiences. With agnostics, "spiritual-but-not-religious," polytheists, Druids, etc I usually feel totally comfortable. Discussion on religious differences can all too easily end in mutual screaming and/or smoldering grave offense, so in support of community harmony, I usually avoid this discourse unless I've gotten to know someone well.

Thanks for sharing this JMG; I sincerely appreciate being reminded of the really wonderful aspects of this country.

[ecosophia]

That's an interesting point. I wonder if the problem is that so few people have any basis on which to build a solid identity, and so they flail around for incidental details to use instead.

Amen for Freedom

[(Anonymous)]

PamB here

This has been around for quite a while on FB and other sites, I've seen it posted from both left and right leaning sites in the past...it would be funny if it wasn't so painful to watch two sides spouting the same platitudes without applying them in a more personal manner to their own behavior.

Talking the same language right past each other...while driving the exhausted majority crazy in the process.

Re: Amen for Freedom

[ecosophia]

That's one of the reasons those of us in the center need to keep on pointing out the parallel illogic of both extremes.

[(Anonymous)]

The funny thing is, I posted this on my wall on Facebook, and lots of my liberal friends liked it!! :) :D A few of my conservative friends did, too. This is one post that seems to bridge the gap between conservatives and liberals, which is why I like it.
Norma

[ecosophia]

That's very promising; if both sides find in the concept of individual freedom a common ground of shared values, we might just be able to get back to sanity here.

[(Anonymous)]

Can I get this on a t-shirt? This needs wider exposure.

Haassmasithiam

[ecosophia]

I don't see any reason why you couldn't. In today's world of print-on-demand, there's got to be someplace online that will print out any tee shirt you like for a modest fee.

[(Anonymous)]

Doesn't really seem to square with forcing trans people out of the military. I don't think Trump is a fascist, and I can understand someone feeling that economic and foreign policy positions are more important than social issues, but it seems disingenuous to pretend that his administration is committed to a live-and-let live libertarian position.

[ecosophia]

Please show me where I said that this was the position of the Trump administration. A little reading comprehension really does go a long way!

[(Anonymous)]

I saw this on the Donald, and felt like sharing it with some liberals I know. I've since been told that of course, if they actually believed this they wouldn't vote for Republicans, and why am I letting my biases get in the way of seeing through their lies, and bla bla bla, anything to avoid admitting that the Trump supporters aren't evil.

It's really rather disturbing to watch....

[(Anonymous)]

Wind is changing.

Good.

[(Anonymous)]

It seems to me that guns differ from the other items on this list.

A certain subset of Christianity has long tried to force their ways on the rest of the nation. I'm heartened to see that they are becoming a minority and that libertarian voices are taking hold on the right.

The thing is that I don't know any liberals who want to take away guns. What we do want is to make some change toward reducing the increasingly-frequent gun attacks on schools, places of worship, nightclubs, etc. Mental health is part of the picture. So are, I would say, reducing the allowable firepower of arms in common circulation.

I'm sure there are rednecks who would love to take trap shooting up a notch and fire at drones 300 feet up with antiaircraft artillery. This is, thankfully, not permitted. What we on the left would like to do is to have a conversation about where the cutoff ought to be in terms of firepower, to weigh the values of those who like to hunt and shoot (or who have guns for preparedness and self-defense) against the need to have children feel safe at school.

The right has defined any such conversation as the first step on a slippery slope to repeal of the second amendment, and so it simply can't happen.

[(Anonymous)]

I live 7 miles from a famously liberal town. A lot of people want the Deplorables disarmed, a situation that would be unlikely to end well for the Deplorables.

I agree that the lack of mental health care is a big factor in mass murders. I say, bring back asylums.

Elections

[(Anonymous)]

I’ve been getting in some divination practice this week, inquiring daily which party will prevail in this, the 432nd Most Important Election Of Our Lives (TM). The Tarot seems to find the whole mess as sadly amusing as I do. I designated the Democrats as female, since their most important constituency seems to be rich white cat ladies and cat-ladies-in-training, which made the Repubs male by default. The first time I asked the question, on Thursday, I pulled...the 9 of Pentacles, and started to laugh. Okay, she’s a rich white hawk lady, not a rich white cat lady, but the message was clear enough. Friday, it was The Devil, which I took to mean that whether the Republicrats or Democans win, We The People are screwed either way. I am missing the sticky on which I wrote down Saturday’s card, but it was Republican. Today’s card was the 5 of Pentacles, which could be another you’re-screwed-regardless card, or could be a too-close-to-call card since it shows one person of each sex, so I asked for clarification and got The Devil again.

All in all, the Oracle says...more of the same or worse, no improvement in sight.