Open (More or Less) Post on Covid 180
Jan. 14th, 2025 11:56 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ecosophia
We are now in the fourth year of these open posts. When I first posted a tentative hypothesis on the course of the Covid phenomenon, I had no idea that discussion on the subject would still be necessary more than three years later, much less that it would turn into so lively, complex, and troubling a conversation. Still, here we are. Crude death rates and other measures of collapsing public health are anomalously high in many countries, but nobody in authority wants to talk about the inadequately tested experimental Covid injections that are the most likely cause; So it's time for another open post. The rules are the same as before:
1. If you plan on parroting the party line of the medical industry and its paid shills, please go away. This is a place for people to talk openly, honestly, and freely about their concerns that the party line in question is dangerously flawed and that actions being pushed by the medical industry and its government enablers are causing injury and death on a massive scale. It is not a place for you to dismiss those concerns. Anyone who wants to hear the official story and the arguments in favor of it can find those on hundreds of thousands of websites.
2. If you plan on insisting that the current situation is the result of a deliberate plot by some villainous group of people or other, please go away. There are tens of thousands of websites currently rehashing various conspiracy theories about the Covid-19 outbreak and the vaccines. This is not one of them. What we're exploring is the likelihood that what's going on is the product of the same arrogance, incompetence, and corruption that the medical industry and its wholly owned politicians have displayed so abundantly in recent decades. That possibility deserves a space of its own for discussion, and that's what we're doing here.
3. If you plan on using rent-a-troll derailing or disruption tactics, please go away. I'm quite familiar with the standard tactics used by troll farms to disrupt online forums, and am ready, willing, and able -- and in fact quite eager -- to ban people permanently for engaging in them here. Oh, and I also lurk on other Covid-19 vaccine skeptic blogs, so I'm likely to notice when the same posts are showing up on more than one venue.
4. If you plan on making off topic comments, please go away. This is an open post for discussion of the Covid epidemic, the vaccines, drugs, policies, and other measures that supposedly treat it, and other topics directly relevant to those things. It is not a place for general discussion of unrelated topics. Nor is it a place to ask for medical advice; giving such advice, unless you're a licensed health care provider, legally counts as practicing medicine without a license and is a crime in the US. Don't even go there.
5. If you don't believe in treating people with common courtesy, please go away. I have, and enforce, a strict courtesy policy on my blogs and online forums, and this is no exception. The sort of schoolyard bullying that takes place on so many other internet forums will get you deleted and banned here. Also, please don't drag in current quarrels about sex, race, religions, etc. No, I don't care if you disagree with that: my journal, my rules.
6. Please don't just post bare links without explanation. A sentence or two telling readers what's on the other side of the link is a reasonable courtesy, and if you don't include it, your attempted post will be deleted.
Please also note that nothing posted here should be construed as medical advice, which neither I nor the commentariat (excepting those who are licensed medical providers) are qualified to give. Please take your medical questions to the licensed professional provider of your choice.
With that said, the floor is open for discussion.
The Rise of Vaccine Distrust - UK Edition
Date: 2025-01-16 04:35 pm (UTC)I know I'm in danger of 'over-posting' but seems it's data week here in the UK and we don't get enough figures to look at to compare with anecdata and intuition etc. here.
The BBC have just published an article on the rise of vaccine distrust. Of course, this is from the expected MSM point of view of 'this is a bad thing' and with little serious mention of the particular issues with the covid jabs. They do, at least, talk about the fact that the covid vixens were originally sold as preventing infection, when they didn't. You can guess all the other talk up to support them of course (prevented serious disease etc.).
Anyway, what is more interesting from the general point of view here is the figures on their main graph giving us an idea of how trust has changed over time from August 2019 and that those distrustful of vaccines has risen to 30% in August 2024 - particularly rising from an initial 'hope bump' in covid vaccines (14% to 30%). The poll was by YouGov and polled 2000 people (with an initial distrust of vaccines of 20% in 2019).
The other 'upsetting' (heartening) statistics from this poll show only 1 in 5 healthcare workers are now 'boosting' with covid jabs and trust in flu vaccine has fallen significantly too. Also younger people are losing trust in them:
"The proportion of 18-24-year-olds, for example, who say that vaccines are safe and effective has fallen to under 60% in 2023 from 80% in 2019."
This really upsets Prof Heidi Larson, the director of the Vaccine Confidence Project at LSHTM, "Vaccine confidence across Europe is now really struggling and we can't just assume it's going to bounce back without a concerted effort."
Full In-depth article here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1jgrlxx37do
Re: The Rise of Vaccine Distrust - UK Edition
Date: 2025-01-16 07:30 pm (UTC)Re: The Rise of Vaccine Distrust - UK Edition
Date: 2025-01-16 08:39 pm (UTC)'Prof Heidi Larson also thinks now is the time to target and better engage with those most at-risk of rejecting vaccines - in particular the younger groups that her data shows are most affected.
"I would start in schools, I would start in science classes, I think we are losing the plot if we only focus on disinformation, and don't start to build an appreciation of how vaccines work and their benefits," she says.'
The one thing that seems to be missing here is not all vaccines are the same and our thoughts on them can change as knowledge grows - yes, through questioning among other things. But of course that's probably not in any plan.
Re: The Rise of Vaccine Distrust - UK Edition
Date: 2025-01-18 02:32 pm (UTC)This is what an ordinary person might think, but it is important to note that in the *religious* sense, the sound and syllables with which one pronounceds "vaccine", together with the letters which compose it in written form, confer, all by themselves, an aura of the sacred and the holy, upon whatever pharmaceutical product blessed with the name.
This is why only the heretics, the infidels, would venture to draw distinctions between one vaccine and another, only unbelievers would try to associate the sacrament of vaccination with profane topics like effects and hazards.
This is why heretics must be called out as anti-VACCINE. For the faithful, all vaccines are holy, all vaccines are one, and all doubt or hesitation endangers the faithful and must be banished, whether it relates to one vaccine or to all vaccines.
If you were dealing with ordinary pharmaceutical products and/or ordinary clinical science, none of this would be true. But the True Belief in the life-saving powers of Sacramental Vaccination is a genuine religious movement, and its believers range from ordinary adherents to proselytising fanatics to inquisitional zealots, and therefore, all of it is true.
We cannot "science" or "reason" at a religious sensibility, there is no basis for mutual comprehension of terms.
Re: The Rise of Vaccine Distrust - UK Edition
Date: 2025-01-18 06:15 pm (UTC)I noticed this effect even pre-covid. How the vaccine schedule just kept expanding and expanding, and anyone who said even so much as "you know, not all of these diseases are the same, all medical interventions have risks, there are risk-benefit issues to each individual vaccine, as well as financial incentives behind the ever-expanding recommendations, so maybe we're over-using vaccines and need to re-think this a bit?" would be attacked and called names. It's been a religion longer than just covid. And you can't use evidence to argue with faith.
Re: The Rise of Vaccine Distrust - UK Edition
Date: 2025-01-16 10:36 pm (UTC)Re: The Rise of Vaccine Distrust - UK Edition
Date: 2025-01-18 01:37 am (UTC)Re: The Rise of Vaccine Distrust - UK Edition
Date: 2025-01-16 08:45 pm (UTC)Surely there must be some souls now passing through their interlife period, giving great thanks to mRNA vaccines for preventing them from suffering with rabies or gas gangrene or schistosomiasis. They were looking for a guarantee of safety, and that is exactly what they got (at least when it comes to rabies.) I wonder if maybe they should have put some limiting restrictions on precisely what their rescue would end up looking like?
— Christophe
Re: The Rise of Vaccine Distrust - UK Edition
Date: 2025-01-17 01:19 pm (UTC)Re: The Rise of Vaccine Distrust - UK Edition
Date: 2025-01-17 01:17 pm (UTC)Re: The Rise of Vaccine Distrust - UK Edition
Date: 2025-01-17 05:53 pm (UTC)https://www.statista.com/chart/33749/share-of-respondents-who-do-not-trust-the-mainstream-media/
Polls done late '23 and '24.
US and France lead the way with 20% distrust. Great Britain on 17%, Germany on 15%, China on 9% (!).
Nothing temporal to compare these figures to, but I just have a hunch that when around a third of your population agrees on something it really impacts. Give it a year or two or sooner if some wide ranging big news event hits where too much reporting looks weird to too many.
Re: The Rise of Vaccine Distrust - UK Edition
Date: 2025-01-19 06:51 am (UTC)Go the zombies!