Open (More or Less) Post on Covid 162

[ecosophia]

We are now in the fourth year of these open posts. When I first posted a tentative hypothesis on the course of the Covid phenomenon, I had no idea that discussion on the subject would still be necessary more than three years later, much less that it would turn into so lively, complex, and troubling a conversation. Still, here we are. Crude death rates and other measures of collapsing public health are anomalously high in many countries, but nobody in authority wants to talk about the inadequately tested experimental Covid injections that are the most likely cause; public health authorities government shills for the pharmaceutical industry are still trying to push through laws that will allow them to force vaccinations on anyone they want; public trust in science is collapsing; and the story continues to unfold.

So it's time for another open post. The rules have been slightly modified: 

1. If you plan on parroting the party line of the medical industry and its paid shills, please go away. This is a place for people to talk openly, honestly, and freely about their concerns that the party line in question is dangerously flawed and that actions being pushed by the medical industry and its government enablers are causing injury and death on a massive scale. It is not a place for you to dismiss those concerns. Anyone who wants to hear the official story and the arguments in favor of it can find those on hundreds of thousands of websites.

2. If you plan on insisting that the current situation is the result of a deliberate plot by some villainous group of people or other, please go away. There are tens of thousands of websites currently rehashing various conspiracy theories about the Covid-19 outbreak and the vaccines. This is not one of them. What we're exploring is the likelihood that what's going on is the product of the same arrogance, incompetence, and corruption that the medical industry and its wholly owned politicians have displayed so abundantly in recent decades. That possibility deserves a space of its own for discussion, and that's what we're doing here. 
 
3. If you plan on using rent-a-troll derailing or disruption tactics, please go away. I'm quite familiar with the standard tactics used by troll farms to disrupt online forums, and am ready, willing, and able -- and in fact quite eager -- to ban people permanently for engaging in them here. Oh, and I also lurk on other Covid-19 vaccine skeptic blogs, so I'm likely to notice when the same posts are showing up on more than one venue. 

4. If you plan on making off topic comments, please go away. This is an open post for discussion of the Covid epidemic, the vaccines, drugs, policies, and other measures that supposedly treat it, and other topics directly relevant to those things. It is not a place for general discussion of unrelated topics. Nor is it a place to ask for medical advice; giving such advice, unless you're a licensed health care provider, legally counts as practicing medicine without a license and is a crime in the US. Don't even go there.

5. If you don't believe in treating people with common courtesy, please go away. I have, and enforce, a strict courtesy policy on my blogs and online forums, and this is no exception. The sort of schoolyard bullying that takes place on so many other internet forums will get you deleted and banned here. Also, please don't drag in current quarrels about sex, race, religions, etc. No, I don't care if you disagree with that: my journal, my rules. 

Please also note that nothing posted here should be construed as medical advice, which neither I nor the commentariat (excepting those who are licensed medical providers) are qualified to give. Please take your medical questions to the licensed professional provider of your choice.

With that said, the floor is open for discussion.

Comments

Re: More than greed and incompetence

[weilong]

I don't claim there was a grand conspiracy, but...

Sure, the governments and corporations at all levels were full of petty tyrants eager to lord it over everybody, among other reasons. Greed, incompetence, arrogance, yes on all three. I think most of the people involved in this ongoing fiasco probably still believe the nonsense they have been fed.

But I strongly suspect that some of the more active proponents of covid hysteria, especially high-level folks like the Faucis and Lauterbachs, and a collection of people in the pharma and media companies, probably knew what they were doing. I.e. they knew the problem was overblown and the solutions they were hawking were ineffective and harmful; they knew that they were lining their own pockets, favoring big business and crushing small businesses for spurious reasons; etc. Of course, they also thought their plans would go smoothly and the plebs were too stupid to notice - more of that incompetence and arrogance there.

Re: More than greed and incompetence

[ecosophia]

This seems entirely plausible to me. As I noted in my original hypothesis, the vaccines may have been pushed as hard as they were at first for wholly corrupt, dishonest, and mercenary reasons by people who knew perfectly well that Covid wasn't the dire disease they claimed, but saw the vaccine as a massive cash cow if only people could be conned into getting an annual booster.

Re: More than greed and incompetence

[weilong]

Yeah, the degree of actual coordination is debatable, but lack of coordination doesn't mean everyone was acting in good faith. At the lower levels, it took a lot of bad actors to make this whole thing happen, but the individual incentives were aligned for them to go along with it even if they knew it was wrong. Most of them would probably never admit it, even to themselves.

Re: More than greed and incompetence

[(Anonymous)]

If you're deep in debt, and you need that medical license to swing the payments, someone uses the threat of taking that medical license away, tell me you wouldn't be like Michigan J Frog singing "Hello my honey, hello my baby, hello my ragtime gaaaal", if they ordered you to.

Re: More than greed and incompetence

[(Anonymous)]

This is a good point. And it actually ties in with the hostage joke further up in the discussion.

In the US at least (I can't speak to other countries), college and med school are very expensive, and a lot of medical professionals are surely carrying student loan debt and can't afford to lose their jobs and be without income for a while. It also makes any sort of kickback of payoffs much more tempting. Not only that, but doctors tend to come from the middle and upper middle classes, aka the PMC, and status consciousness and conformity are deeply ingrained.

So you have people who are conformist by selection, to whom status is very important, and who on top of that are often paying off student loans and terrified of losing their income. It is indeed a kind of hostage situation, even if many of the chains are in their minds.

Re: More than greed and incompetence

[(Anonymous)]

The kind of people who can jump through all the hoops required, I call them "box checkers". I saw a lot of them in my youth, doing their dead level best to make it into the Ivy Leagues, but it applies just as well to lower tier medical school. Not just doctors either. Ted Cruz is a poster boy for the "box checker" type. Hardworking, diligent, attentive to detail, and given well defined goals, will accomplish them. Question of when, not if.

Not the kind of person who does well though when dealing with unusual or unexpected events, where improvisation is required. Bad at diagnosis, where part of figuring out what is going wrong, is to use your intuition. These are specialists, not generalists, tend to have a narrow view of things, seeing only the trees and not the forest. There are a fraction of people who make it to the Ivy League levels who have good general intelligence, but they are a minority, IMHO.

Bottom line, those kind of people are easy to manipulate and control. Do not trust them too much, especially in this era. They are not your friends. Treat them the same way you'd treat the HVAC guy, read reviews and if it looks like he isn't working out, fire him and replace him with someone who will.

Medical system is collapsing anyway (along with everything else it seems). Get used to DIY.

Re: More than greed and incompetence

[(Anonymous)]

However, if it was just fraud, wouldn't it have been easier and more profitable to just push saline solution with a few simple cheap feel-good chemicals in it? I mean, if the goal is to get as much money from the suckers as possible, you'd kind of want it to be safe and ineffective but acts like it is effective. At least for a short while. Sort of like those Goody's powders, which are a real scam, if you ask me. That would've been the ideal pharma-quack model to base the "vaccines" off of.

That's not what we got is it? It's dangerous and ineffective. Very dangerous. To use the Goody's powder analogy, they spiked it with cocaine and methamphetamine and whatever experimental chemicals they had on hand. Maybe it is just arrogance at play but there may be more sinister motivations as well. Us peasants may never know though.

Re: More than greed and incompetence

[jdecandia]

I believe the greed portion of this comes in the sense that they thought they were setting up a future platform for all MRNA vaccines that would work more like computer software updates than traditional vaccines and thus the only cost incurred would be to "update" the rna strands rather than invest researching eachnew pathogen. So there was short term greed in trying to push on everyone now and long term greed by trying to experiment with a new platform of vaccines that would be more "cost-effective ".

It might work if you are looking to shortcut ways on manufacturing boots, construction materials, even food products (at least where the downsides of such cheap products can be written off to the larger populaces' poor choices) but when it comes to molecular data and the blueprint of physical life... it's best not to take shortcuts.

Re: More than greed and incompetence

[(Anonymous)]

Software updates is a good analogy. Ive noticed this in the way that people love to talk about thir most recent jab like its exactily that, an update for a robot. Either its faustian culture doing cyborg cosplay, or Im interpreting phenonema through my own faustian lense!

Eamonn

Re: More than greed and incompetence

[(Anonymous)]

I still think that part of it was the Shadow of Polio and the success they had with that. They were gambling that, if it worked, they'd have a newer way to create "protections against diseases" and a thankful public placing them as The Apex of Society™️ to boot.

–Donald C. Hargraves

Re: More than greed and incompetence

[(Anonymous)]

Well the story of the "success" with polio vaccines is a more than a bit of a sticky (and stinky) wicket once starts to get past the surface-level propaganda.

Call me an anti-vaxxer. I didn't start out this way, however. As late as 2022 I was prefacing my skepticism about the nature of and safety and efficacy of the covid jabs with, "I'm not an anti-vaxxer but..."

What is undisputed, in my view, is that in early 2021, when the jabs rolled out for the general public, the general public firmly believed that vaccines, and in particular, polio and smallpox vaccines, worked and they were a most wonderful scientific advancement for improving human health. The word "vaccine" had a tremendously positive connotation for most people. And those who were pushing the experimental gene jabs with the mRNA platform took full advantage of the public's naiveté, both about those previous vaccines' safety and effectiveness, and the nature of the covid injections themselves (which are not actually vaccines, as that word was previously defined).

I think you are quite right that the shadow of polio was a very important part of the enthusiasm for the vaccines, and especially for older people.

Re: More than greed and incompetence

[(Anonymous)]

"Maybe it is just arrogance at play but there may be more sinister motivations as well. Us peasants may never know though."

If the only goal was to roll out the mRNA technology, the regulatory agencies are so corrupt they could have done that in another few years anyway, and then slowly switched over all vaccines to mRNA. No need for the totalitarian overkill that was covid.

Re: More than greed and incompetence

[escorcher]

"...conned into getting an annual booster"

I suspect this is from the same mindset that has created the somewhat Schwab-like 'Software-as-a-Service' SaaS™ model: https://www.gartner.com/smarterwithgartner/moving-to-a-software-subscription-model

That these mRNA injectables are looking downright dangerous probably just doesn't compute when there are punters to perpetually profit from.

We speak of arrogance and greed, but given mention of Fauci and his ilk, how about a vote for vanity or 'vanagloria' too.

Re: More than greed and incompetence

[tritumi]

It all be helpful to keep in mind the role of the US Department of Defense in this affair. In appreciating that role and those who played it, the intentions of those ultimately responsible will take shape.