Frugal Friday

[ecosophia]

Welcome back to Frugal Friday!  This is a weekly forum post to encourage people to share tips on saving money, especially but not only by doing stuff yourself. A new post will be going up every Friday, and will remain active until the next one goes up. Contributions will be moderated, of course, and I have some simple rules to offer, which have changed as we've proceeded. (As things have settled down to a nice steady conversational pace, for example, I've deleted the rules about only one tip per person per week and about limiting the length of comments; I was worried early on about people flooding the forum with too much too fast, but I think we're past that risk.)

Rule #1:  this is a place for polite, friendly conversations about how to save money in difficult times. It's not a place to post news, views, rants, or emotional outbursts about the reasons why the times are difficult and saving money is necessary. Nor is it a place to use a money saving tip to smuggle in news, views, etc.  I have a delete button and I'm not afraid to use it.

Rule #2:  this is not a place for you to sell goods or services, period. Here again, I have a delete button and I'm not afraid to use it.

Rule #3:  please give your tip a heading that explains briefly what it's about.  Homemade Chicken Soup, Garden Containers, Cheap Attic Insulation, and Vinegar Cleans Windows are good examples of headings. That way people can find the things that are relevant for them. If you don't put a heading on your tip it will be deleted.

Rule #4: don't post anything that would amount to advocating criminal activity. Any such suggestions will not be put through.

With that said, have at it!

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Yesterday we received some positive news, and what better place to share it then an anonymous forum. My wife is pregnant!

While we are still in the very early stages and some early hurdles to cross I am wondering if any commenters have any ideas, advice, or books to share relating to frugality.

Right now, we plan to inherit quite a bit from her sister who has a 1 year old and relying on used things but as I am sure many here can imagine my mind is swimming when it comes to thinking about all this change!

[ecosophia]

Congratulations!

You might see if there's a local cloth diaper service. Those can be competitive with disposable diapers, and they're a lot easier on the environment.

[claire_58]

Congratulations!!

Tell your friends and family to please skip the plastic toys and give them a list of practical items you need. Make providing this list a habit; remind them of your preferences every gift-giving season.
I've seen many young families up to their ankles in plastic shi--uh--merchandize, while they struggle to keep the children in boots and cold weather gear. Ask for donations and and suggest that contributions to the big ticket items would be appreciated.

[prayergardens]

Congratulations! What a blessing. If it floats your boat, consider adding your family to the prayer list. :)

Being on the hand-me-down train is wonderful. My guess is you'll get about everything you need from there. A few extras that helped us along the way: Craigslist (where we got cribs and strollers), Once upon a Child (decent resale chain for the odd thing you can't get via hand-me-down. We still get winter coats there every year). For crib, we used a used pack and play the first year and it was fine.

I also got reusable cloth diapers via Ebay but I remember the bidding to be a bit nuts. I liked the outer shells with snaps that you could insert pads into and got quite a few of those.

The one thing someone told me that I as SO GLAD I did was get extra sheets for the crib AND your bed ahead of time. Babies are messy and there will be a night where the vomiting doesn't stop and you will be too tired to do laundry. And yep, one night we went through all three sheet sets on our bed and threw sleeping bags down to cover the mattress.

The only thing we shelled out money for that as new and I thought was expensive was a good thermometer that rolls across the forehead. No matter what your medical philosophy is knowing the different between a 100 degree fever and a 105 degree fever is useful knowledge and it's hard to tell at 3am with your hand or a thermometer that's hard to read.

Babies need very little and there's a whole industry trying to wear you down and take your money and they will pull all the marketing tricks and play on your emotions. Stay strong.

I only give one piece of unsolicited advice to new parents and only because it was so hard to find and gave us back hours (and hours and hours, really) of sleep a night. One night, in desperation, I googled "how to get baby to stop crying" and on like page 10 I found an old Oprah interview with an Opera singer who said she could tell what babies needed by their cry. I tried it and it 100% worked for us and we started sleeping again. I ended up being able to hear babies at the grocery store aisles over and know what they needed. (I never approached anyone in public! I just write it on internet forums and tell people I know in person).If you're interested: https://www.oprah.com/own-oprahshow/a-woman-unlocks-the-secret-language-of-babies

All the best to you and your wife. It's a great ride.

[(Anonymous)]

Congratulations. If anyone in your household sews, the older patterns for baby clothes have easy to make long gowns which are the most comfortable and convenient baby garments imaginable. To change baby, simply lift up the gown and proceed. Save the monkey suit jumpsuits for visits to relatives, if you must use them at all. I always thought those monkey suits must be uncomfortable for baby, legs having to be pulled out and then reinserted for changing. Another useful thing is a changing pad, to be placed under a brand new baby, to protect sheets, or a parent's lap.

There was once research to the effect that surrounding baby with bright colors was helpful for mental development. I did that, and I do believe it does help. Now baby fashions are back to sentimental blandness.

[teresa_from_hershey]

Congratulations!

Ask for practical stuff like diapers, hand-me-downs, and most of all, services like vacuuming, laundry, shopping, or errands.

Keep a list. Most people have no imagination so when they say, "what do you need," you're ready.

If you're given useless, NEW baby stuff (like Diaper Genies, one of the more idiotic items) see if you can exchange it at the store for stuff you'll use like disposable diapers for traveling and emergencies.

On the topic of disposable diapers: they can be incredibly useful. That said, in my experience store brand works as well as name brand but costs less and you get more diapers.

The other super-useful gift is money. You know what you need to spend it on.

What babies really need is plenty of time with mom and dad.

[methylethyl]

Congratulations!

If it's your first kid, one of the main things you'll learn over the next 8-12 months is how very little of all that "totally essential baby gear!!" you actually need. Talk to other parents you know-- especially parents of more than one kid. Ask them which things they got at the baby shower that turned out to be useful enough that they still wanted one for the second, third, fourth kid. It should give you some perspective on the bewildering array of *stuff* out there.

Those answers will be different for everyone, and a lot depends on your lifestyle, and your baby (they're all different). If you have a car, you legally have to have an infant car seat. Most everything else is negotiable.

The biggest way to save money on baby stuff, is to very carefully consider: do we actually need one of those? And if the answer is yes, as it will be for a few things, then the next question is: can I get one secondhand? The thing about baby stuff is that people are constantly getting rid of it when the kid is no longer a baby. You can pay $$$ for a very fashionable diaper bag... but we just used my old college backpack for all three kids and it was fine. Most baby gear is like that.

It's a good idea to scope out childrens' consignment shops in your area.

Note: there are many, many electronic-noise baby toys out there that are loud enough to damage your child's hearing, if they get close to the baby's head. There's basically no regulation on that. I reckon we saved not only our kids' hearing, but also wads of cash and our sanity, by simply eliminating battery-requiring toys from our house with extreme prejudice. That didn't stop friends and family from pushing them on us, but we would literally open the present, and then immediately get the screwdriver out and remove the batteries, while they were watching, and before the kids could play with it. Most of them got the idea after a couple of years, and they do not get my kids electronic toys... OR if they just couldn't resist (it can be surprisingly hard to find a toy firetruck that *doesn't* light up and go weeeeoooo weeeeoooo), they remove the batteries themselves!

baby etc

[(Anonymous)]

Firstly congratulations. In addition to cloth nappies, we found one of the small things that made a massive difference with our daughter was using elimination communication. We started from very early and had great success using that method. You still have messes but we got to toilet trained quicker and easier than the modern alternative and less issues like rashes etc. The book we used to guide us was "infant potty training" by Laurie bouke.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_Potty_Training

Mr Kemble

[(Anonymous)]

Congratulations!

I'd recommend breastfeeding amongst what others have said, although it's a very personal choice which works for some mothers but not others. I found it easier and cheaper than all the feeding stuff once you get the hang of it. Lovely for bonding and an absolute lifesaver when they get sick, soothing and all the antibodies that are transferred really make a difference to frequency and severity of bugs.

Probably cheaper than formula but mothers need to eat more so hard to say how it evens out.

pacifiers

[randomactsofkarmasc]

I know there is disagreement about whether or not to use pacifiers. If you decide to use pacifiers, there are some that are designed to help the palate form properly. (Rather than being round bulbs on the end, they are sort of flattened on the underside.) I haven't bought a pacifier in 25 years, but back when I did buy them, they were a little more expensive than regular pacifiers. The money savings came later... a well-formed palate encourages teeth to grow straight. Both me and my husband wore braces in our youth. Our daughter has incredibly straight teeth and did not need any orthodontic work at all.

[(Anonymous)]

Other things:

Olive oil is great to clean and coat baby skin, I had some in a plastic bottle with a tip, something from teh ktichen area of the store, and I would keep this by the changing table. It cleans off and moisturizes. I did not use petroleum baby oil or the expensive stuff, I used olive oil. Other oils will work.

I cut regular washcloths into 4ths, and hemmed the cut edges. I kept these by the changing area with 2 plastic squeeze bottles with tips, on for water, one for oil. Clean bottom first with water, then oil, you will be surprised that the oil pulls more off of what you thought was a clean bottom after a BM, so then you dont get diaper rash. FOr sensitive babies, or if it is realy cold, put warm water onto the washclothe, and this cleans poop better too, so run the water in the sink until warm.

I liked keeping baby next to our bed for longer, as it was easier on me, so I never realy used a crib. I used a cradle then a toddler bad or small futon next to my bed when they outgrew the cradle ( a "side sleeper" can take the palve of a cradle)

It is nice to have a pace to change the baby, but it does not need to be fancy or store bought. Any low height table or dresser will do, I build a very simple wooden surface that held securely onto my treadle sewing machine top, it just went over the top to make a flat surface, with a few pieces screwed into the bottom so it would not shift or slide off the sewing machine top. You might use a dresser top. You can sew a little padded area and sew little washable covers even, or sew more than one pad. It can be simple, like an extremely small quilt and then can be washed.

The point is there is alot of marketing, but you dont need to buy much.

Atmospheric River

Coffee and Tea

[degringolade]

I realize that this may be a plug, and if it is, I understand should our gracious host choose to delete it.

I have spent the last 30+ years up here on I-5 between Seattle and Portland. This is where the idea of coffee as a status symbol and "an affordable luxury" came to pass and then went out and infected the world.

The truth be told, I question the "need" that people have for a "high-class" coffee. This last year I have ditched the yuppie brands and returned to the old standard of Yuban. It is still an arabica, it tastes fine if you get over yourself and stop trying to describe the "notes" of the taste to impress your friends.

But prices of even the cheap coffee are going up as the dollar loses its "oomph". You might want to start looking at tea, tea bags are still reasonably cheap and bulk tea is cheaper if you get one of those clampy thingies.

I don't know about you guys, but at my age, caffeine withdrawals are not something that I want to deal with.

Re: Coffee and Tea

[ecosophia]

I can't drink coffee -- it gives me migraines -- and so tea has been my caffeine source all through my life. By and large, black tea has more caffeine than green or white; a good strong English tea will give you a proper jolt when you need one.

Finding pen refills for nice pens

[teresa_from_hershey]

Why do pen manufacturers, especially ones who make nice pens as in engraved gifts for graduates, not make refills?!?!?!?

It's so irritating to have nice pens with gel grips (which my arthritic hands appreciate) but finding refills -- even at Amazon -- are difficult.

The Staples across the street carries a very few refills, none of which ever seem to fit.

I've got a very nice swag pen, complete with gel-grip and a built-in flashlight and the battery can be replaced. But the ink cartridge? No such luck. Anywhere.

I really don't understand this.

Suggestions or comments? Because of my arthritis, how a pen feels in my hands is critical. Those big foam sleeves don't work well.

Re: Finding pen refills for nice pens

[fringewood]

What brand is the pen? I found a place on line that seems to carry a lot of different refills, but I don't know if it will fit the brand of pen you have.

https://www.jetpens.com/Pen-Refills/ct/1781

Good luck!

Ant Deterent

[(Anonymous)]

We have had an ant explosion the past few weeks. It's been more of an issue the past number of years with them coming into our house. I'm not anti-insect at all, but I don't want them to be coming inside in the numbers that they have been. So I've caulked and filled in holes on the hand. On the other, I wanted to make something they wouldn't like. I tried cayenne pepper on the kitchen counter before and it didn't really work. What has finally shown some promise is mixing many drops of essential cedar oil and essential douglas fir oil into a spray bottle of rubbing alcohol and putting that on the trails they have made and places they are coming in. They really don't seem to like the cedar and I think the douglas fir oils also deter them.

I hope this helps others. I'd also be happy to hear what has worked for you.

Justin Patrick Moore

Re: Ant Deterent

[methylethyl]

Thanks! We occasionally have that problem here. They come in when we've had a lot of rain, and they are looking for dry places to relocate. Sometimes they decide the car is a nice place to be, too :/

You Eat Natto?!?!

[(Anonymous)]

Wow. You’re one of the few whites I’ve ever encountered who can get past the appearance and the smell. I can’t get past either one. I’m impressed.

—Princess Cutekitten

Re: You Eat Natto?!?!

[ecosophia]

Over on the open post on Covid, you'll find a fair number of non-Asian people who eat natto -- it contains an enzyme, nattokinase, that prevents unhealthy blood clots from forming. It's become quite popular in certain circles. Me, I learned to enjoy it a long time ago. Sara couldn't stand the smell, but to me it's no worse than some of the stinkier cheeses and the appearance goes away in a hurry when you add furikake and stir it into hot rice.

Pirates and family values

[hearthculture]

I'm reading Pirate's Passage, a young adult novel set in a coastal inn in the 1950s with lots of historical references to the last 500 years. If anyone likes tales of the sea, a good mystery, or a quaint sea-town setting this book offers those in abundance. It also provides more than it's fair share of old common sense and hard-won wisdom through a grizzled ole sea captain. I'm finding that books like these (set in a mostly real-world small town before the internet, debt-based currency, and cheap fuel) to be very instructive in how to live more frugally, and how to have more joy while doing so.

Re: Pirates and family values

[ecosophia]

Hmm! Many thanks for this. I'll see if the local library system has it.

For readers generally: what novels do you know of that are good sources for frugal living ideas?

Cash Money

[(Anonymous)]

Hi JMG and Frugalistas,
I was talking to my husband about a series of articles I am writing for our local tiny paper. The articles are on how to cope in the lean times. He suggested one of the most important practices is using only cash. He was a Naval finance officer and he found that when we switched to cash stuffed into envelopes, one for rent, one for groceries and so on that he was able to have much tighter control of our finances.

If you use a credit or debit card, you are kind of unconscious about how much money you are spending on what. The system of envelopes is something I learned from working-class people in Lancashire. They couldn't afford to have money problems so the wages would be given to the wife who put them in the correct envelopes. Once the envelope for clothes is empty, you stop buying clothes until the next wage goes into the envelopes.

We have envelopes for hay, agricultural lime, car maintenance, fun, travel and many others. It is inexpensive and pretty fool proof.
Maxine

Re: Cash Money

[mindwinds]

We this too for groceries, fun money, dining out and pantry. The other helpful thing for us has been that our credit union allows us to have multiple savings sub-accounts, so we're able to separate our savings into categories as well (like a long-term emergency fund, education, setting money aside for self-employment taxes and the like). One of those is for annual bills - things that only get paid once or twice a year. We add up all those expenses, then break the total into monthly amounts and put it into the savings sub-account every month. Then we aren't caught by surprise when the property taxes or car insurance or holiday spending rolls around.

Transplanting Worms

[prayergardens]

So maybe this is a weird one because I've only ever seen one garden blogger mention it but I transplant worms in my garden.

There are a few places where they tend to congregate so I put down some old tree limbs there and every once in a while I turn the limb over and pick out a few worms and move them over to my exterior potted plants. At the end of the season, I have much better soil than I started with in the potted plants. My neighbor has an ick factor with worms so maybe other people do too but I love them and am grateful for their cooperation in the garden.

The one guy I saw talk about it on a blog staged a seasonal vermicomposter in a shady spot by taking a cardboard box and dumping all his old potting soil in the box in the spring and transplanting the worms into it. He said by the end of summer when the box had fallen apart he had a nice heap of refreshed potting soil. I guess I just skip the middle step and distribute the worms directly to the plants. At the end of the summer I'll drop the enhanced soil into the compost heap to give it a push or just dump it back in a garden bed.

And of course there are all sorts of formal vermicomposting systems but just transplanting them gets a lot of mileage. I hope I'm not disrupting worm families or making bad garden karma but maybe so far so good.

Re: Transplanting Worms

[methylethyl]

Yes! I have totally done this. Only with the really big pots, though. Less than 1 gallon size and I worry about the worms getting dried out between waterings. Have you tried it with any smaller pots, and if so what were the results?? Do you feed them? I bury the occasional apple core or banana peel in there for them. Generally they are still there when I get around to repotting things.

Joel Salatin likes to point out that worms are basically magic:

"What I find most amazing about earthworms, and indeed what still baffles scientists, is that the castings that come out of the worms’ alimentary canals contain five times the nitrogen (N), seven times the phosphorus (P) and 11 times the potash (K) of the soil environment in which the worms live. It’s almost like alchemy because no net loss occurs."

found here: https://www.motherearthnews.com/homesteading-and-livestock/benefits-of-earthworms-zm0z16amzbre/

Additionally, I have a recurring problem with fire ants colonizing one or two of my larger pots. It keeps them out of the wet, during the rainy season. I finally gave up on trying to evict them (I do not like to poison or even use DE on them, as anything bad for the ants is also bad for the roly-polies, millipedes, worms, etc), and instead, I deliberately feed them meat scraps... on the theory that fire ants are flesh-eaters, and that they move along from one nesting site to another when they reach a critical buildup of wastes. So I figure if I "enrich" their food supply, they'll reach that point faster, and move house on their own. I don't have scientific data on whether this shortens their tenancy or not, but the last couple colonies-in-inconvenient-locations did in fact move out not long after I fed them two or three times with the fat trimmings from a ham, and some cheese that the kids had dropped on the floor. Plants seemed fine through all of it, and may even have benefitted from the nitrogen boost.

Gardening and Flowers

[michele7]

For anyone who is getting into growing veggies, don't forget to put in some flowers. Last year I seeded an old cast iron tub in the yard with cosmos and marigolds. This year they came up on their own and the bees are going crazy around them. We put in s smaller type sunflower among our eggplants and peppers that have been attracting bees. The roses I got before Valentine's are being visited by a hummingbird. I'm in central Florida and this heat seems to be bringing out the best of my flowers. While some of you have reported noticing a lack of insects, I'm seeing more this year. The dragonflies come out in the evenings while bees and bumble bees are in and out of our raised beds. All our veggie plants have benefited from these pollinators. This year we've had the best crop of cucumbers ever!

Re: Gardening and Flowers

[methylethyl]

Yes!

I am experimenting this year with growing flowers that get *tall* and using them to shade plants that don't want to be in the full-on subtropic sun-- I have strategically-placed cannas and tithonia this year, and so far so good. They are holding up well (temps are already over 90 daytime) and I think they are the only thing keeping my lemon balm alive. Calendula is barely hanging in there, in their shade, but... maybe I need to just try growing it fall and winter. It's pretty sad looking. Still, I've tried those before and this is the first time I've gotten one to survive long enough to make flowers, so that's progress!

Chive Vinegar

[kayr]

Around here (Salt Lake area) chives are blooming and I like to use the chive flowers to make a lovely lavender chive vinegar. I take a half gallon jar (a lesser jar will work just as well) and fill it with chive flowers then fill the jar with white wine vinegar (you will want to use a non-metal lid as the vinegar will corrode it). In very short order the flowers turn the vinegar a lavender color. If you want to keep the color for a longer period of time, you need to refrigerate the vinegar but if you don't care about that so much, it will last on the shelf until you use it all up.

You can strain out the flowers at any time, but I usually leave them in. Also, you can use any vinegar you like, but you won't see the pretty color if it isn't a white vinegar of some kind. I don't particularly like distilled white vinegar as I find it too harsh, but your mileage may vary.

Simple cheap food suggestions

[(Anonymous)]

Hello all! I was thinking today about the food I eat. It's not a very varied diet, basically oatmeal, eggs and beans and occationally lentils. And I eat out twice a week roughly. Anyway, if anyone has any suggestions for simple cheap food that barely takes any cooking I would love to hear them!

Re: Simple cheap food suggestions

[claire_58]

You might consider salad wraps. Get some flat bread (tortillas, pitas, etc), a salad mix, and some dressing. A thickish dressing works best or use a bit of hummus or a yogurt/sour cream dip; the wraps can be drippy. Add a bit of grated cheese, chopped egg, chopped nuts or seeds, some tomato, or whatever takes your fancy.
The variations are endless. You can chop up your own salad mix using all the most affordable veggies (carrot, celery, and cabbage make a nice crunchy mix) You can add leftover beans or lentils. You can mix and match toppings. You can skip the dressing and dip the wrap into some kind of sauce as you eat it.
These are more affordable if you are willing to do some of the prep yourself but can also be simple and convenient, even though they are more expensive, with prepared ingredients.

Healing Hands

[kylec]

If anyone needs healing hands in the Modern Order of Essenes tradition, whether for the first time or a new boost, please let me know by replying here or sending me a PM. Thanks for letting me practice this skill.

screen out rabbits question

[(Anonymous)]

Rabbits have eaten all the leaves from my eggplants. New leaves are growing. I have a roll of short wire fencing. It has openings of 1 inch by 5 inches. Is that sufficient against rabbits?

Re: screen out rabbits question

[(Anonymous)]

I hear rabbits are also edible? If you can't eat what you're growing, eat what's eating what you're growing?

question - green tomatoes and dahlias

[kallianeira]

It is winter where I am and there are lots of tomatoes that fell off the vines without having ripened. Can anyone suggest ways to use them?

Also, dahlias are known as ornamental flowers in my part of the world but I read they were a source of food in their place of origin, Mexico, and that the entire plant is edible. I have nibbled on the leaves in salads. I'd like some more ideas, for the tubers in particular.

Thanks

iridescent scintillating elver

Re: question - green tomatoes and dahlias

[(Anonymous)]

I can't help with the dahlias, but if you search for "green tomato recipes" you'll get lots of results, especially recipes for green tomato relishes and green tomato salsas. Fried green tomatoes are sliced, breaded and fried - popular in parts of the US.

I recommend music and fun audio recordings with maybe a few teachings here and there

[(Anonymous)]

Rather than loading up on things your child will quickly outgrow, and drawing on my own childhood, I recommend audio recordings your child can "play" hundreds or thousands of times without exhausting. This is, also, fully in keeping with the theme of this thread: great recordings don't easily wear out!

Classical music; sing-alongs; teaching materials such as alphabet songs; perhaps recorded fables (ideally with a teaching element). As an infant, these things will still imprint on your child's memory and shape its development. As a toddler, as the child learns to understand the words, these things will continue to give growing benefit. As your child gets a little older, they will provide a library which the child can learn to play, from time to time, for themselves. As an adult, these things will provide fond memories of its loving and nurturing upbringing...and can be passed on to a new generation!

-gnat

Re: I recommend music and fun audio recordings with maybe a few teachings here and there

[ecosophia]

Oh bright gods, yes. I adored things like this when I was very small, and I can still recite some of the poems word for word.