Open (More or Less) Post on Covid 5

[ecosophia]

The semi-open posts  I've hosted here on the Covid-19 narrative, the inadequately tested experimental drugs for it, and the whole cascading mess surrounding them have continued to field a huge number of comments, so I'm opening another space for discussion. The rules are the same as before: 

1. If you plan on parroting the party line of the medical industry and its paid shills, please go away. This is a place for people to talk openly, honestly, and freely about their concerns that the party line in question is dangerously flawed and that actions being pushed by the medical industry et al. are causing injury and death. It is not a place for you to dismiss those concerns. Anyone who wants to hear the official story and the arguments in favor of it can find those on hundreds of thousands of websites.

2. If you plan on insisting that the current situation is the result of a deliberate plot by some villainous group of people or other, please go away. There are tens of thousands of websites currently rehashing various conspiracy theories about the Covid-19 outbreak and the vaccines. This is not one of them. What we're exploring is the likelihood that what's going on is the product of the same arrogance, incompetence, and corruption that the medical industry and its tame politicians have displayed so abundantly in recent decades. That possibility deserves a space of its own for discussion, and that's what we're doing here. 

3. If you don't believe in treating people with common courtesy, please go away. I have, and enforce, a strict courtesy policy on my blogs and online forums, and this is no exception. The sort of schoolyard bullying that takes place on so many other internet forums will get you deleted and banned here. No, I don't care if you disagree with that: my journal, my rules. 

With that said, the floor is open for discussion. 

Comments

Re: UK - Rate of Infection

[(Anonymous)]

Finally some useful data with a finer-scale age breakdown.

Note the tipping point at age 40, with the two youngest groups 50% less likely to be infected if fully vaccinated while among the 60-69 group infection is nearly 40% *more* likely among the vaccinated.

This is quite likely to reflect a waning immunity effect, with the younger groups vaccinated more recently (see p. 11).

As for whether the vaccines actually have negative efficacy with regard to preventing infection, that depends on the prevalence of natural immunity (which at this point is known to be much better than vaccination) in the vaccinated and unvaccinated groups. If the unvaccinated largely have natural immunity that alone could explain the data.

It is entirely possible that vaccine efficacy could go negative, however. If this is happening I would expect it to be due to immune tolerance - genetic vaccines training the immune system to respond less strongly to the spike protein. And yes, this could interfere with pre-existing natural immunity.

Mark L

Re: UK - Rate of Infection

[(Anonymous)]

Hi Mark - I was hoping you would see this.

Hopefully there is some comparable stats in another few weeks so we can see if there is any movement.

With the publishing of this data, the advice against vaccinating 12-15 year olds and now the dumping of the vax passport, I am wondering if there is a move against the Narrative in the UK.

Re: UK - Rate of Infection

[(Anonymous)]

It's really helpful to have that tolerance hypothesis Mark L.

There are some thoughts in this post https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=243546 by Karl Denninger, plenty of un-druidly language on the forum but his comprehension of science is strong and his assessment of how the problems are playing out in the world I find super helpful. I actually look out for that phrase 'I hate being right' as I think some really good thinkers have that attitude. Something like "I don't like what I am seeing and I really hope I am wrong about this, but ..." really grabs my attention because it's an upfront expression of trying to wrestle with understanding what is happening and what might happen next if the analysis is correct.

Another post here https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=243442 'There's an off ramp -- but it has a price' going over what it might look like with the jabs and outcomes going forward.

Re: UK - Rate of Infection

[tarian]

I would just point out that the data in Table 4 in the Vaccine Surveillance Report relates to positive tests, not to infections per se, so it is possible that those people who decline the vaccine are also less likely to present for testing, so I would be more inclined to look at the figures for deaths and hospital admissions in the next two tables; the data is also tabulated in Figure 2.

There has also just been released an analysis of deaths for the first half of 2021 in England, by the Office for National Statistics, at https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/deathsinvolvingcovid19byvaccinationstatusengland/deathsoccurringbetween2januaryand2july2021 which makes interesting reading.

Regarding vaccinating 12-15's, that's now looking likely to go ahead, according to the latest briefings on what the Chief Medical Officers for the four nations have recommended. The dropping of vaccine passports is just for England, incidentally: Scotland have decided to go ahead with them (infection rates have recently risen sharply in Scotland), Wales are still deciding, and N Ireland have so far decided not to introduce them.