Open (More or Less) Post on Covid 5
Sep. 7th, 2021 12:14 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ecosophia
The semi-open posts I've hosted here on the Covid-19 narrative, the inadequately tested experimental drugs for it, and the whole cascading mess surrounding them have continued to field a huge number of comments, so I'm opening another space for discussion. The rules are the same as before: 1. If you plan on parroting the party line of the medical industry and its paid shills, please go away. This is a place for people to talk openly, honestly, and freely about their concerns that the party line in question is dangerously flawed and that actions being pushed by the medical industry et al. are causing injury and death. It is not a place for you to dismiss those concerns. Anyone who wants to hear the official story and the arguments in favor of it can find those on hundreds of thousands of websites.
2. If you plan on insisting that the current situation is the result of a deliberate plot by some villainous group of people or other, please go away. There are tens of thousands of websites currently rehashing various conspiracy theories about the Covid-19 outbreak and the vaccines. This is not one of them. What we're exploring is the likelihood that what's going on is the product of the same arrogance, incompetence, and corruption that the medical industry and its tame politicians have displayed so abundantly in recent decades. That possibility deserves a space of its own for discussion, and that's what we're doing here.
3. If you don't believe in treating people with common courtesy, please go away. I have, and enforce, a strict courtesy policy on my blogs and online forums, and this is no exception. The sort of schoolyard bullying that takes place on so many other internet forums will get you deleted and banned here. No, I don't care if you disagree with that: my journal, my rules.
With that said, the floor is open for discussion.
(no subject)
Date: 2021-09-07 04:29 pm (UTC)Or all three of course....
https://torontosun.com/news/national/burial-costs-covered-for-canadians-killed-by-approved-vaccines
(no subject)
Date: 2021-09-07 04:39 pm (UTC)-----------------------------
The following is a comment on the Naked Capitalism site. The commenter, who goes by the handle IM Doc, is a doctor in a smallish hospital in a smallish town. He’s had a lot of experience with all this. The bottom half of his (long) comment here might be of interest.
—————————————–
IM Doc
September 4, 2021 at 3:17 pm
I have been doing a great deal of research about a past pandemic which I have never spent much time investigating – the Great Russian Flu of the 1890s. This has always been thought to be an actual influenza – but recent genetic and virologic studies are showing us that this was very likely the introduction of Coronavirus OC43 to the world.
Many many physicians at the time were chronicling that the symptoms of this “flu” were different than any other influenza had ever been. Even Sir William Osler, in written statements in his textbooks of Internal Medicine, was of the notion that the symptoms exhibited by patients during that pandemic of the 1890s were really not like the normal flu. His books were written in the decades immediately leading up to the “real” influenza pandemic of 1918. And the one symptom that over and over described by numerous physicians that were writing at the time, including Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, was depression. This just does not happen to any degree in true INFLUENZA and many remarked on the difference.
It must be noted that the word “depression” is a rather modern word and a modern construct. This construct is from our very reductionist, form-filling out, check the boxes modern medicine. “Depression” today is a drop bucket of multiple different diagnoses of the past. FYI, there are many things like this in medicine, not just depression.
Conan Doyle and Osler would have used more prominently the diagnosis “melancholia” to describe what we commonly use as “depression” today. But interestingly enough, contemporaneous medical writers of the 1890s often used a completely different word with a completely different diagnostic meaning to describe what they were seeing in patients of that pandemic. That word is ACEDIA. I have seen it used repeatedly in my research of the pandemic of the 1890s.
The difference is completely lost on us today – but it is actually a very important distinction. ACEDIA is an old medieval concept which is very difficult to describe. Basically it means a depression of the soul. A SPIRITUAL depression. While melancholia was more of a behavioral depression. Mainly having to do with living with consequences of behavior or reaction to events in a patient’s life.
Interestingly, when I am really talking to these POST COVID patients today – it is indeed more consistent with the spiritual and soul exhaustion of ACEDIA – and not behavioral or reactive like most depressions are. I have occasionally seen this ACEDIA type of depression before, but it is now just one patient after the other. I am also seeing ACEDIA like depression repeatedly in patients who have never had COVID. It is a sign of the times. In the days of Osler and Conan Doyle, they had no way to test patients for the presence of the virus and just assumed everyone had been infected by the miasma. I think today I am seeing this in POST COVID patients and non-infected as well.
The writers of that era in the 1890s were unequivocal in what they were seeing in their coronavirus pandemic – an epidemic of ACEDIA in those who had had the illness. I find it profoundly fascinating that the exact same type of thing is happening in our coronavirus patients and our COVID world today.
List of "Died Unexpectedly"
Date: 2021-09-07 04:39 pm (UTC)1. "Daniel Kaminsky, Internet Security Savior, Dies at 42"
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/27/technology/daniel-kaminsky-dead.html
Here is his twitter showing he took vaccine shortly before that -
https://twitter.com/dakami/status/1381716799905886210
2. "Doctor who helped guide COVID-19 vaccination policy in Massachusetts dies unexpectedly"
https://www.wcvb.com/article/dr-robert-finberg-covid-vaccine-investigator-umass-professor-dies-unexpectedly/37445483
3. "Sidharth Shukla Dies: Popular Bollywood Actor & Reality TV Star Was 40"
https://deadline.com/2021/09/sidharth-shukla-dies-bollywod-actor-reality-tv-star-40-1234826157/
4. "Irish community in mourning as tributes paid to talented young sportsman after 'untimely' death"
https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/irish-community-mourning-tributes-paid-24786114
5. "Biman Bangladesh Pilot Dies After Inflight Medical Emergency"
https://simpleflying.com/biman-bangladesh-pilot-dies/
6. "New Zealand hip hop artist Louie Knuxx has died while running in Melbourne at the age of 42, with the coroner set to investigate"
https://tonedeaf.thebrag.com/new-zealand-hip-hop-artist-louie-knuxx-has-died-in-melbourne/
(no subject)
Date: 2021-09-07 04:50 pm (UTC)Entity Involvement
Date: 2021-09-07 04:56 pm (UTC)Immune tolerance hypothesis
Date: 2021-09-07 05:00 pm (UTC)Over the past few days I have developed a hypothesis that could help to explain:
--High disease prevalence in regions with high uptake of genetic vaccines.
--Increasing disease prevalence following widespread booster vaccination in Israel.
--High ratios of unvaccinated to vaccinated hospital patients.
--Much better vaccine protection against severe illness than against infection.
--Maintained vaccine protection against severe illness over time despite waning immunity.
--Inferior vaccine protection against infection compared to natural immunity, despite comparable levels of neutralizing antibodies and T/B-cell activation.
--Higher rates of asymptomatic infection among vaccinated people despite limited testing.
--Political refusal to test asymptomatic vaccinated people for infection under most circumstances.
The hypothesis is that genetic vaccines are inducing partial immune tolerance to spike protein, likely through a regulatory T-cell response. If any commenters know immunologists or vaccinologists, I would be very interested to hear their thoughts with regard to this idea.
Tolerance is the collective term for a variety of mechanisms used by the human immune system to prevent autoimmunity. Primary tolerance occurs during immune cell development in the bone marrow, and acts to weed out developing immune cells that generate autoreactive antibodies or other autoimmune responses. Secondary tolerance, which is the main focus here, acts to mitigate the effects of autoreactive responses that are already in existence. One of the mechanisms of secondary tolerance is the development of regulatory T-cells, which act to tone down immune responses to particular antigens.
Viruses can exploit tolerance in order to evade the immune system, and this notably occurs with HIV. The viral envelope protein is sufficiently similar in form to a human protein (histone H2A) that an effective antibody response is blocked by tolerance mechanisms, and people with certain autoimmune conditions compromising these tolerance mechanisms actually mount a more effective antibody response against HIV. (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0952791516301522)
Increasing tolerance to a pathogen can paradoxically decrease severe disease, when severe disease involves an immune overreaction/cytokine storm rather than actual viral tissue damage. Such is the case with most cases of severe Covid-19 that lead to hospitalization and death. (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33391477/) However, this protective effect comes with trade-offs. When coronavirus-family infections were studied in mice, regulatory T-cells prevented severe immunogenic illness but increased the risk of viral persistence and chronic infection. Furthermore, regulatory T-cell activation can non-specifically dampen immune response to other pathogens, leading to increased incidence of secondary infections. (https://www.mdpi.com/1999-4915/4/5/833/htm)
The main biochemical difference between genetic vaccines and conventional vaccines is that the former present protein antigens to the immune system on the surface of human cells, while the latter present antigens on inactivated viruses or other inert injected particles. Furthermore, when genetic vaccines “infect” a large number of muscle cells, or vessel wall cells, or heart cells, causing them to produce spike protein, the immune system creates conflicting signals. The generated antibodies say “kill that foreign object!” while the self-recognition systems say “that thing just showed up on a bunch of our cells, must be OK!” For this reason, we might expect genetic vaccines to be more likely to induce anti-autoimmunity tolerance mechanisms.
Interestingly, there is an mRNA vaccine in development that is specifically designed to induce tolerance as a treatment for autoimmune disease through activation of regulatory T-cells. The Nature paper describing that work curiously includes the following paragraph: “Sahin and colleagues have clearly demonstrated the potential of RNA lipoplex vaccines to deliver a non-inflammatory form of an mRNA vaccine encoding a self antigen to prevent and limit autoimmune disease in mice. It is noteworthy that m1Ψ-containing mRNA is also used for the COVID-19 mRNA vaccine, indicating that the pro- versus anti-inflammatory nature of m1Ψ mRNA vaccines can be modulated depending on the specific antigen and specific encapsulating lipid formulation. In the case of the BNT162b2 vaccine for COVID-19, the antigen is a foreign protein formulated in an immunostimulatory lipid nanoparticle. In the present study, the antigen is a self protein delivered in a non-immunogenic lipoplex formulation, and an extra mRNA purification step removes any residual immunostimulatory molecules. This method allows antigen presentation in the absence of inflammation and co-stimulation, preferential expansion of pre-existing T(reg) cells, and possibly also their de novo development.” (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41587-021-00880-0)
In other words, they claim that the immune response to an mRNA vaccine can be switched between tolerance and immunity by choosing a self or foreign protein and selecting a pro- or anti-inflammatory lipid formulation for the encapsulation. I highly doubt that it’s that simple, and I strongly suspect that unintentional induction of partial tolerance is a likely side effect of any genetic vaccine.
Conveniently, in the case of Covid-19, it turns out that tolerance is protective against severe disease, and indeed some treatment efforts have focused specifically on enhancing immune tolerance (https://journals.ekb.eg/article_92759.html). However, immune tolerance may also be associated with prolonged virus shedding (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/eclinm/article/PIIS2589-5370(20)30273-X/fulltext). If the genetic vaccines do indeed induce partial immune tolerance, that could help to explain their impressive efficacy against the sort of immune overreaction that leads to hospitalization and death, while also explaining their comparative weakness in preventing infection and transmission of the virus. If “long covid” is, as many scientists suspect, partially induced by autoreactive antibodies, then it would also make sense that genetic vaccines could reduce or eliminate those symptoms by inducing tolerance. This could help to explain the phenomenon that vaccination sometimes alleviates long covid, and also reduces the incidence of long covid in breakthrough infections.
This is an eminently testable hypothesis that can be explored by examining regulatory T-cell responses (or other immune tolerance responses) following vaccination. To date, I can find no evidence that anyone has done this, but I would hope that it will happen in the near future, and the results will be illuminating.
Tolerance is not an on/off phenomenon but rather a wide spectrum ranging from the complete immune acceptance of most of our own proteins to the extreme reactogenicity of a serious peanut or bee sting allergy. Tolerance mechanisms can coexist with immunity mechanisms, such that tolerance begins to become apparent as the level of neutralizing antibodies declines. And to be clear, I am not hypothesizing that the genetic Covid-19 vaccines function by virtue of inducing tolerance. It has been well-demonstrated that they induce a strong neutralizing antibody response. I am instead suggesting that they may *also* be inducing partial tolerance, and that this effect may help to explain strong protection against severe (immune overreaction) disease, high rates of illness transmission in high-vax areas, and possibly also significant declines in immunity after 4-6 months despite continuing high antibody levels.
If indeed the genetic Covid-19 vaccines are inducing partial tolerance, we can make certain predictions:
1. Genetic vaccines will be extremely effective at preventing severe disease, but much less effective in terms of preventing infection. (True)
2. As vaccine immunity wanes, protection against cytokine-storm-type severe disease will be maintained. (Seems to be true)
3. As vaccine immunity wanes, vaccinated people will increasingly carry and spread the virus, and population-level viral prevalence will rise in areas with a high uptake of genetic vaccines. (True) Vaccinated people will be more likely to be asymptomatic carriers. (True, https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00460-6/fulltext)
4. This will lead to a significant wave of illness transmission which will disproportionately affect unvaccinated people (who are not protected against severe disease). (True right now across the US and much of the world)
5. Booster shots will further increase tolerance, leading to an increased level of disease prevalence across the population. (True in Israel)
6. As immunity wanes and new antibody-resistant variants emerge, vaccinated people will be more vulnerable to long-term/chronic infection with high viral loads. Due to the protective effects of tolerance this will likely manifest not as typical severe Covid-19 illness (pneumonia, ventilators, cytokine storms, multiorgan failure) but rather as spike protein toxicity. So we should watch for an increase in clotting, strokes, heart attacks, myocarditis, neurological problems, etc. Vaccinated patients dying of these conditions may not be tested for Covid-19 and so likely will not be counted as covid deaths, and the myth of vaccine efficacy may persist based on the original definition of “preventing severe Covid-19 disease” even as we experience a wave of mysterious illness and death. Furthermore, vaccinated people may be more vulnerable to other infections due to regulatory-T-cell mediated general immune suppression. Should ADE develop, with non-neutralizing antibodies facilitating enhanced infection or direct infection of immune cells, tolerance could well lead to further exacerbation. However tolerance could also provide protection against cytokine storm-type reactions and accelerate the evolution of SARS-CoV2 into an endemic human pathogen, so the long-term effect of tolerance is uncertain.
7. Contrary to the shrill claims of the fearful, vaccinated people will present a much greater danger than unvaccinated people in terms of asymptomatic transmission and evolution of new variants.
8. There are likely to be significant differences between the vaccines. In particular, the two-shot series would be expected to induce greater tolerance, and possibly also greater tolerance will be evident in countries with a shorter interval between the two shots. Countries that utilized inactivated-virus vaccines are probably less likely to see tolerance effects, although they may still encounter ADE or other problems down the road.
This hypothesis presents a scenario of vaccine failure that first appears as success (because tolerance prevents severe disease), that explains the trends currently observed (unexpectedly high illness rates in high-vax areas), and that potentially portends a troubling future without invoking the still-hypothetical ADE. As with JMG’s original hypothesis, time will tell…
Mark L
(no subject)
Date: 2021-09-07 05:01 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2021-09-07 05:02 pm (UTC)https://usa.streetsblog.org/2021/09/03/covid-19-road-death-surge-continues/
While correlation is not causation, this was one of the markers I was paying attention to in regards to the vaccine clotting, or other long term health issues, which would get past the censors.
Re: List of "Died Unexpectedly"
Date: 2021-09-07 05:07 pm (UTC)Re: List of "Died Unexpectedly"
Date: 2021-09-07 05:13 pm (UTC)"Louie Knuxx: 42-year-old New Zealand hip hop artist mocks lockdown protesters, dead 28 days after second Pfizer mRNA injection"
https://thecovidblog.com/2021/08/23/louie-knuxx-42-year-old-new-zealand-hip-hop-artist-mocks-lockdown-protesters-dead-28-days-after-second-pfizer-mrna-injection/
"Katherine Creag, NBC New York Reporter, Dies Suddenly at 47"
https://www.etonline.com/katherine-creag-nbc-new-york-reporter-dies-suddenly-at-47-160508#:~:text=Katherine%20Creag%2C%20a%20TV%20news,worked%20earlier%20in%20the%20day.
She posted about being at the vaccine center a day before death -
https://twitter.com/katcreag4ny?lang=en
"Germany’s Ambassador to China Dies Unexpectedly"
https://www.caixinglobal.com/2021-09-06/germanys-ambassador-to-china-dies-unexpectedly-101769536.html
"Jimmy Hayes, NHL veteran of seven seasons with four teams, dies at 31"
https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/32072909/jimmy-hayes-nhl-veteran-seven-seasons-four-teams-dies-31
"Fitness Expert and Former Bodybuilder John Meadows Dies 'Unexpectedly and Peacefully' at 49"
https://people.com/sports/former-bodybuilder-john-meadows-dies-unexpectedly-at-49/
Re: List of "Died Unexpectedly"
Date: 2021-09-07 05:18 pm (UTC)https://ew.com/tv/midwin-charles-dead-cnn-msnbc/
She wrote on twitter on March 1st -
"
Midwin Charles, Esq.
·
Mar 1
Just got vaccinated (qualified because of my asthma) at a FEMA center. Everyone at the site is in uniform. It’s good to see our service men and women! Process was organized, efficient, and everyone is kind and in a good mood.
Let’s do this! 💉"
https://twitter.com/midwincharles/status/1366407547243155460?lang=en
Potemkin government
Date: 2021-09-07 05:18 pm (UTC)A person I know was visiting a US Federal Government building last week and was required to fill out the form to enter. He was told by the guard at the door, no form, no entry, and apparently that applies to everyone including employees, contractors, and visitors. He told the guard, I am not vaccinated and the guard replied, “I don’t want to know.” He filled out the form, checking the 4th box, “I decline to respond” and tried to hand the form back to the guard. The guard refused to take the form and said, “Just keep it with you, in case anyone asks.” No one did.
The form is 4 pages long and it says, among other things, that if you check any box other than “I am fully vaccinated” then you are required to have taken a test within the past 72 hours showing you are negative for Covid 19. But the government agency the person was visiting doesn’t do any testing and no one asked for any test results. It appeared that the guards at the door are not allowed to ask for test results. The person told me that he had taken a Covid test within the required 72 hours in case anyone asked. He said you can buy a two pack of tests at CVS for around $25 and it is easy: you just pour a solution into a tray (or something like that) and get a result. I said, but you have to stick the Q-tip thing up your nose, right? He said, uh yeah, sure….
I was given a briefing by another government agency who is planning to implement the “attestation form” and was told that home testing would be fine for anyone who was required to be tested and that the Biden administration has said that it will pay for all testing. I can only imagine the Rube Goldberg mechanisms that will be put in place for the test reimbursement scheme. Companies will probably have to hire another admin person to process expense claims for home tests purchased for people who visit government buildings.
One last thing: in the briefing that I got on the attestation form, the briefer admitted that Covid cases were way up in government buildings, and many were “breakthrough” cases, i.e., people who were fully vaccinated are getting sick. Someone asked, what if I fill out the attestation form saying I am vaccinated and then I get sick? The response was, “Your status doesn’t change.”
It looks like the government knows they have to appear to be doing something about the rise in Covid cases in their buildings and they can’t mandate vaccination (except for the military, and we have yet to see how that will work out – the requirement date is this month. It is not looking good). So the government is doing this form, which is meaningless, and mandating testing, which is done at home by people who may or may not actually be testing themselves, and they are not testing the vaccinated, who may be sick and be spreading Covid to others. Potemkin government.
(no subject)
Date: 2021-09-07 05:20 pm (UTC)https://siderea.dreamwidth.org/1718271.html
Re: List of "Died Unexpectedly"
Date: 2021-09-07 05:20 pm (UTC)https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-senior-israeli-military-commander-dies-after-sudden-collapse-during-training-1.9959895
"Col. Sharon Asman, the new commander of a leading IDF infantry brigade, died unexpectedly at age 43 on Thursday after collapsing in a fitness session.
The IDF is investigating the circumstances of his death at the Beit Lid base near Netanya. It appears Asman collapsed due to a heart failure."
Re: List of "Died Unexpectedly"
Date: 2021-09-07 05:26 pm (UTC)You may also want to check the daily expose. ...try duckduckgo in case you can't find them
(no subject)
Date: 2021-09-07 05:27 pm (UTC)I personally would love to know what their experiences are. I did ask a firefighter recently what he was experiencing out there, and he remarked that there was an increase in all types of emergency calls. I wish I had asked him for more specifics.
I am no longer working now, but early on the nursing home where I worked had a Covid outbreak. Everyone got it. And actually most residents were fine. Age didn’t even seem to be the biggest risk factor. We had a 101 year old woman with mild symptoms. And residents with diabetes, stroke were also fine. The residents who died were either end of life or in an active disease process that they were already not recovering well from. I would be so curious to know who is showing up at the ER.
Tamar
Variation on a Theme
Date: 2021-09-07 05:31 pm (UTC)https://defyccc.com/delta-ay-3-ay-4/
Am guessing this is one step nearer more concerning potential vaccine protection issues. The continuation of the Mu iteration could 'up the ante' too, I guess, if any kind of combination was to happen between the two flavours.
Just a reminder, although vaccines may well push on the development of these iterations, there is also plenty of evidence that long haul treatment of immunocompromised individuals using plasma antibodies has done the same e.g.:
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210831/Development-of-SARS-CoV-2-antibody-escape-variants-in-an-immunocompromised-individual.aspx
Arguably, it's likely it's this that has had a greater impact on the development of this disease up to now than vaccinations.
Re: List of "Died Unexpectedly"
Date: 2021-09-07 05:34 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2021-09-07 05:42 pm (UTC)IM Doc's post on naked capitalism archived on my blog
Date: 2021-09-07 05:47 pm (UTC)HIV/AIDS
Date: 2021-09-07 05:48 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2021-09-07 05:56 pm (UTC)About 2 weeks ago I went into town for the periodic shopping run. Yeah, I'll skip the mask when I can. Then I noticed people using the phrase "God bless" more than usual.
Last Saturday, I went on the usual errands and the vibe was just nasty. It had the same feeling like a fight or worse was going to break out.
Note, this is in Washington state, US.
(no subject)
Date: 2021-09-07 05:57 pm (UTC)One odd point about the female is she is a yoga instructor that is very aware of her body and how it works. Surprisingly, she believes it was vaccine related because she has never had any issues before. Test showed it was inflammation around the heart. Doctor's blew off the idea of it being vaccine related.
(no subject)
Date: 2021-09-07 06:04 pm (UTC)- Cicada Grove
Biden's Speech
Date: 2021-09-07 06:13 pm (UTC)Any ideas what Biden might propose in his speech? How much damage can one man do in the ten minutes he is lucid?