Another King in Orange podcast

[ecosophia]

There seems to be an unusual amount of interest in my new book The King in Orange: The Magical and Occult Roots of Political Power in the blogosphere, or at least in that portion of it that makes and promotes podcasts. This time I'm back with Kevin Lynn of the Center for Populist Urban Politics -- longtime readers will remember him as the host of the amazing peak oil video podcast that brought me, Dmitry Orlov, and half a dozen other peak oil thinkers together for a couple of hours of intense conversation -- and we're talking about magic, politics, and the clash of realities in the Trump and post-Trump eras. It's a lively discussion. Interested?  Check it out on YouTube here. 

Comments

[brenainn]

I'm now to the point where I don't even say "pop" or "soda." I just say "fizzy brown sugar water." Since I've nearly cut the FBSW out of my diet, when I do drink a little bit of it, it messes my stomach up. On another note, my best friend might be waking up to the reality that's been hiding behind the magic of the salaried class. He was a center-right type but the MAGA phenomenon seems to have been a tipping point for him. I've also noticed he doesn't offer rebuttals when I critique the cult of progress and point out its many failures to deliver on cool new tech. One person at a time, I suppose

[ecosophia]

I'm delighted to hear about your friend -- "one person at a time" is how real change happens -- and also pleased that FBSW has become a thing. ;-)

[neptunesdolphins]

I grew up with it being called Tonic not pop or whatever. I do remember when my grandmother, who considered Boston to be South, lectured me on going to Washington D.C. to live. She looked me in the eye, "Those Southerners drink Tonic for breakfast!" (i.e. they were lazy and decadent because nobody respectable would ever drink fizzy brown sugar water for breakfast.) My girlfriend who was from North Carolina (She considered Virginia to be Northern.) said, "No maam, we drink Dr. Pepper." Both of us gave her a blank look. FBSW with prune juice is Dr. Pepper, I later found out.

[(Anonymous)]

I've had Dr Pepper before, wasn't a fan, but am certain there's no prune juice in it.

[kimberlysteele]

If you mix normal cola with almond extract, it tastes like Dr. Pepper, which is what leads me to believe Dr. Pepper is a fake-almond flavored cola as there are no "contains tree nuts" warnings on the label.

[michaeliangray]

Soda more like Wet sugar with bubbles - Now with psychoactive addictive drug additive.

[(Anonymous)]

You've inspired me to bring back the neglected Appalachian dialect word, dope, as in my junior high school friend who used to complain that his papaw was always telling him to "bring me a dope and a Moon Pie, son."

Vera Lee

[(Anonymous)]

"Ungramaticus Latinus" sent tea all over my keyboard. I think it might be one of the best lines I've ever heard in any interview.

[ecosophia]

Thank you. Of all the things about the boy wizard and his chums that made me roll my eyes, the tacky pseudo-Latin was the one that gave me the best view of the underside of my own brain.

[mollari]

I must admit I also found myself getting quite well acquainted with the underside of my brain when I tried reading the books, and the pseudo-Latin was one of the biggest reasons for it.

[ex_mole_end866]

I noticed a few days back when Dimitry posted a link to his podcast with them that they'd dropped "Progressive" from their name and changed it to "Populist"! That has to be a decently good sign...

[ecosophia]

I missed that! I've just swiped their new logo and put it in place of the old one.

[mollari]

I've noticed a lot of former progressives becoming populists. This could make for a very interesting next few years....

[ecosophia]

Yes, it's certainly going to be worth watching. Preferably with a big bowl of popcorn.

[(Anonymous)]

By populists do you mean deplorables or socialists? There's a part of me that just can't imagine progressives moving towards Trump-style politics, even if that's around where I sit on the political compass myself.
If they are, perhaps a factor in why now is that they really hated Trump as a person, but now that he's gone it's ok to agree with him on things he had a point about (lab leak, etc.).

[mollari]

I mean a lot of socialists, communists, progressives of various stripes, ranging from the kids of the wealthy through to working class, are coming around to Trump style populism. Quite a few of them are saying that they had a bad case of TDS, and are recovering, but it appears that a lot of people are moving to that general area of the political spectrum. Part of this is no doubt former fellow travelers from my days in the extreme left reaching out to say they're following my lead, but it could get very, very interesting come 2022 if a lot of people are doing it.....

[robertmathiesen]

IMHO, the emerging political divide is not going to lie between right and left, or Republican and Democrat, but between the Establishment (government as usual by the Republocrat-Demican monoparty) and the Populists (pretty much anything, whether on the right or on the left, just so long as it's not government as usual). And I'm pretty sure the populists are going to win out in the long run -- and then they'll make a royal mess of things, just like the old monoparty used to do.

[(Anonymous)]

I have to disagree on the Magic Resistance not changing anyone's consciousness: their extreme expression of hatred and general insanity transformed me from an extreme left winger to a firm populist....

[ecosophia]

Okay, I stand corrected!

[neptunesdolphins]

Me too. I always saw things in greys, And I got pushed into populism, since the Magic Resistance was always being the white light against the black whatever.

[mollari]

Same here! I went from unabashed socialist to hard core right winger because of their shenanigans....

[mollari]

You talked about the cognitive dissonance of the middle class in the podcast, which lead me to noticing how it explains an otherwise baffling behaviour, where many of the middle class will insist they are in fact poor: if they are poor, then they cannot be profiting off of others' poverty; which makes it just another way that they are refusing to deal with the realities of their economic privilege and the way that they've benefited from throwing millions into poverty.

[ecosophia]

I don't doubt that that's an important part of it.

Progressive or Populist?

[(Anonymous)]

I don't usually do podcasts, but I thought the idea of a self-described "progressive" program taking an interest in the King in Orange was odd enough to warrant a look. And when I got there they had the same logo but with "progressive" replaced with "populist." Did they just change their name, or are you subtly poking fun in your post?

(Mark L)

Re: Progressive or Populist?

[ecosophia]

They just changed their name. I wasn't aware of it until Mole_End mentioned it a couple of hours ago. It strikes me as a very good sign!

[lunchboxbike]

I haven't seen a pop ad in a while, maybe years. Beer and hard liquor ads are more common now.

[ecosophia]

Interesting. Where are you located?

[lunchboxbike]

Southeast Michigan

[(Anonymous)]

I have listened to all the podcasts for the King in Orange and i am a bit surprised that more attention was not given to comparison of Wotan in Germany in the 1930's and the Changer in the USA in the 2010s-2020s.

A whole lot of people have noticed parallels between Germany in the 1930's and the US today and all i can say is i really hope you are right and that America is a very different place than Germany and that the Changer is up to something very different than Wotan.

The Changer myth does seem to be a decent fit to what is happening here.
A whole lot of people would a lot better off if they thought we were not on a quick march to Ragnarok but rather facing a choice on changing their behavior voluntarily or fight the Changer and be transformed by force.

[ecosophia]

Most of what I've seen comparing Germany in the 1930s to the US today is pretty unconvincing -- it mostly seems to be an effort on the part of people on the left to pose as heroic anti-fascists, despite the distinct lack of actual fascists to oppose. (I've discussed the fact that they don't have actual fascists to oppose here, here, and here. Please read these first if you'd like to argue the point with me.)

Fascism isn't coming

[(Anonymous)]

Ed West has a hilarious article on this fantasy.

https://unherd.com/2021/06/the-fascist-moment-isnt-coming/

[brenainn]

Thanks for posting those links. The articles were very thought provoking. It also led me to explore more of the "Archdruid Report," starting with "The Next Ten Billion Years." Very interesting stuff. I wish I had found your work years ago. It probably would have saved me a lot of time and money.

[(Anonymous)]

Well there are some parallels- political gridlock - general sense of unease - close elections - an archetype making waves in the collective unconscious.

But as you have said there are really big important differences. I am just surprised that it has not been a bigger focus of discussion. For me, the whole Wotan - Changer discussion was one of the most interesting things i have ever read.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, not Wotan. Coyote!

[(Anonymous)]

The American aspect of the Trickster is Bugs Bunny. Good-natured guy. He just wants to be left alone to enjoy his simple pleasures. He'll take a certain amount of crap, but push him too far and it's war. Those who mess with him are left disheveled and humiliated. "What happened?" they say, bewildered, as they crouch in the wreckage of their pretensions.

Bugs Bunny

[ritaer]

When I received my PhD I requested a Bugs Bunny watch as a gift--any fan will be able to figure out why.

But I think we must allow for the possibility that Bugs is non-binary, or at least quite gender fluid.

Rita

Re: Bugs Bunny

[ecosophia]

Possibility? Certainty, rather. Have you watched "What's Opera, Doc?"

[ecosophian]

Just when I think I can catch up with JMG and have a full list of his podcasts he releases a new one!

[ecosophia]

Podcasters just keep contacting me and asking me to be on their shows!

[(Anonymous)]

How many more are coming?

[ecosophia]

I think this is it so far, but I won't be a bit surprised if I field a new request or two in the next week.

[cutekitten]

Today podcasts—tomorrow the world!

Brown fizzy sugar water

[(Anonymous)]

Hi JMG,
I've listened to all the podcasts and have just started on this one, but I thought I might mention, that the most famous soccer player in the world, Ronaldo, moved two bottles of the stuff out of the frame of his interview, then put his bottle of water in front and said drink water.
He was also not wearing a mask, unlike the person next to him.
The share price did a tank right after
Its right there on YT if anyone wants to see.
Even if you don't watch it reading some of the comments is a laugh.
(Edit comments now turned off at least on the telegraph broadcast)
There's also a another soccer player that copied him, also on the YT. Maybe it will become a meme!
Ps. got the book, trying to juggle it between the Levi Study!

Regards,
Helen in Oz

Re: Brown fizzy sugar water

[ecosophia]

Hmm! Good for Ronaldo. I saw something on a news aggregator site about the soccer authorities pleading with other players not to do that...

[(Anonymous)]

I really enjoyed the podcast. I also found the other discussion with you, Orlov, Kunstler and others ("Doomer Super Bowl" as Kevin Lynn jokingly called it :D ). Both were wonderful. Thank you.

I sense that one of these days, Joe Rogan is going to get hold of you. He is another working class eccentric, popular with other working class people. He is quite eclectic in his choice of guests. There doesn't seem to be much of overlap between your readership and his audience, but strange things are happening. So you never know.