The Root of the Madness

[ecosophia]

It occurred to me yesterday, while mulling over various symptoms of our ongoing national nervous breakdown, that there's a very simple explanation for it all:  a very large number of people in our well-to-do classes have accepted the New Age notion that they create their own reality, and taken the next step -- the step that leads to madness -- and convinced themselves that they create everyone else's reality too. 

Do you remember, dear reader, the aftermath of Trump's election in 2016? A great many of his opponents immediately insisted that those who voted for him could only have been motivated by racism. I originally put that down to Democratic propaganda, but it was more than that. When I pointed out to people who were spouting that particular line that they were wrong, and offered them a good deal of evidence that they were wrong, they didn't argue or challenge the evidence or anything -- they just got a thousand-mile stare in their eyes and insisted again that the people who voted for Trump could only have been motivated by racism.  It was eerie. 

It took quite a while for me to realize that these people thought that they, not Trump voters, got to decide why Trump voters voted the way they did. The reality that Trump voters are human beings, with their own values, needs, concerns, and motives, simply didn't exist for these people. The bleak economic landscape created by policies that benefit our well-to-do classes didn't exist for them either, and articles that talked about that harsh reality -- here's a recent one, and here's another -- made no impression, because that wasn't the reality they chose to live in. 

I had another brush with that during the debate I had here on Dreamwidth with Michael M. Hughes, one of the leading figures in the soi-disant "Magic Resistance." One of the points I tried to make in that discussion was that the magical workings he was teaching people to do were bunny-slope stuff, inadequate for the purpose he had in mind. His response was to insist loudly that no, they were powerful magical rituals. At the time I was baffled, because they weren't; there are plenty of technical details that you put into a magical working to make it powerful, and his had none of those; furthermore, he was limiting himself to techniques that can be used by complete beginners, which again is a pretty fair demonstration that we're talking about the bunny slope. I realize now that he seriously thought that his workings were powerful because he said they were.

Take a look across the battered and smoking wasteland of our national consciousness and you'll see the same thing over and over again: a good many members of the comfortable classes have lost track of the fact that they don't get to decide what the universe will be. Violent rioters and arsonists are peaceful protesters, for example; why? Because we say they are, that's why. 

I was about to write the words "that way lies madness," but we're much too far along the curve for that. A significant fraction of the well-to-do in today's America have lost their last fingernail grip on reality and are insisting that the universe is whatever they want it to be. Since reality doesn't know or care in the least what they think about it, this will not end well. 

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Some light criticism here, coming from someone who agrees that e.g. rural economic decline (something that has been accelerating over the past few decades) is a better explanation for Trump than overt racism (something that has been mostly in abatement for the past few decades.)

This post is interesting to me because it's an exact mirror of liberal accusations of contemporary conservatism. ("Post-truth" is the relevant search term for this variety of discourse, although in the aughts it would have been "reality-based community.") It seems everyone wants to be the lone voice of reality standing against the postmodernist hordes, regardless of which side of which decade's culture war is drafted to play which role.

Now, this doesn't mean that this isn't a real phenomenon. (Consider two political parties accusing each other of corruption - both can be correct.) The widespread appeal of this discourse itself, though, implies that ordinary bad faith, lying, and confusion may play a greater role than a total normative eclipse of Truth. (The corrupt country where everybody accuses each other of corruption still hews to some idea of that corruption being bad; if it weren't, they wouldn't call it corruption but taxes, rent, profits, or other legitimating term.) In particular I think the kind of evidence you point to here - "X says Y, I calmly explained that not-Y, X must be a post-truth post-modernist" - is a conclusion you see across a wide variety of this kind of discourse and is almost always wrong, and "that ways lies madness" conclusion if there is one.

[ecosophia]

I considered that possibility, of course, but I really think something beyond ordinary bad faith, lying, and confusion is involved here. Ordinary bad faith and lying are goal-directed -- people use them to try to achieve something -- and ordinary confusion is usually amenable to the repeated impacts of reality, e.g., "Something must be wrong, I keep getting whacked upside the head."

The really odd thing about the state of mind I've discussed here is that it's so self-defeating. The Democrats could have neutralized Trump easily, and would be headed for a landslide victory this year; all they had to do is listen to the voters and figure out why so many people who voted for Obama in 2008 turned around and voted for Trump in 2016, and then craft an appeal to them. Instead, their behavior has been the single most important incentive driving people into Trump's arms. For four years now I've watched former liberals look at what the Democrats have been doing and decide that, as little as they like Trump, he's better than what the other side has to offer. "Vote Republican -- They've Got Their Problems But The Other Side Is Insane" is a sentiment I've been hearing over and over again.

The other point that I tried to make here, which I don't think you caught, is that the problem isn't party-based, it's class-based. Just at the moment, a very large sector of the well-to-do are backing the Democrats, because the Republicans no longer support what used to be the bipartisan consensus that benefited the middle class at the expense of the working class. I suspect working-class Democrats are much more in touch with what's actually happening.

[kevintaylorburgess]

"I considered that possibility, of course, but I really think something beyond ordinary bad faith, lying, and confusion is involved here. Ordinary bad faith and lying are goal-directed -- people use them to try to achieve something -- and ordinary confusion is usually amenable to the repeated impacts of reality, e.g., "Something must be wrong, I keep getting whacked upside the head.""

I've sometimes wondered if the privileged classes might want Trump to win for some reason. Of course they won't admit to it, even to themselves, but that just makes the output look all the more like it's the ravings of lunatics.

[(Anonymous)]

In that I’m entirely inclined to agree with you - though note that the “uncomfortable” classes are mostly politically disengaged!

If we think of America as composed of four classes - working (though frequently out-of-work) people, small property owners, credentialed professionals, and large property owners - the core of each party is the expression of the interests and outlook of a wing of one of the middle classes (conservatism for small property owners, liberalism for credentialed professionals,) with large property playing an ideologically flexible role to ensure its bread gets buttered no matter what. Each party also gets some votes from certain groups of ordinary workers (racial minorities, white Evangelicals) on the message that the other guy personally hates them, but without the promise of actually improving their condition.

When evaluating changes to these coalitions - and the changes are real and important (for instance the decline of organized labor, which was an important part of the Democratic coalition; collapse in church attendance among self-described evangelicals are currently doing strange things to the right) - it’s important to pay attention to the details rather than the showy exterior. Trump presents himself as a champion of the working man while his fellow billionaire, Mitt Romney, patently did not - but the people that voted for Trump were nearly an exact mirror of those who voted for Romney, except that there were more Romney voters. (No, really! It’s just that the Obama => Clinton dripped was greater.) So I think my major points of disagreement are:

1) The Democrats’ questions should be about voters who went from Obama to no one at least as much as those who went from Obama to Trump. (Some of this overlaps, some not.)
2) The Democrats are in fact on track to probably win in November. Of course we will see, but I’m not seeing macrodata (or even my own anecdata) that appreciable numbers of people are switching D=>R in response to Democrats being “too crazy” over baseline individual churn.
3) Trump has not broken with commitments that prioritize the middle over working classes. Tax policy, court appointments, and basic policy commitments all follow the basic bipartisan and/or Republican approach to these issues. Trump’s base is a middle class one. During the primary, however, he signaled a willingness to ally with the petit bourgeois base of the party over the bipartisan haute bourgeois on some issues (though note still how tax policy and judicial appointments are still friendly to a haute bourgeois agenda.) This, alongside a belief that he’s too erratic to manage the US empire, has caused a clear shift in support among the haute bourgeois towards the Democrats this and last cycle, who saw complaisant allies in Clinton and Biden.

As for the left of the Democratic Party, the Sanders wing, they did in fact mobilize a greater amount of working-class support in the primary than their rivals, and since I’m in that wing myself obviously I’d say that we have more of a grip on reality (but I would say that, wouldn’t I? Not very good evidence.) But note that this is also mostly a professional class phenomenon: it is the segment of the professional class that wants its primary alliance to be with workers rather than with the haute bourgeoisie. This would be a huge realignment, but by failing the primary we also failed the proof of concept that we could pull it off by mobilizing enough disaffected voters. Similar left-populist movements in the developed world (Podemos, Syriza, Corbyn’s Labour) also failed. So obviously we have our own strategic choices to review.

Sorry if this is overlong, or either obvious or obviously wrong, but I figured there wasn’t a tweet-length way to signal both my agreement and disagreement. (And I do think decreases in sanity levels do have something to do with how, yes, comfortable types of all ideological persuasions find themselves confined to literally tweet-length expressions.)

(When you get to the level of individuals this schema becomes useless, of course.)

[(Anonymous)]

One thing to keep in mind is that the workers usually have side businesses. Usually? Almost always. At least in the rural areas and the small city I live near.
You work at the gas station AND babysit your neighbor's kids while they sleep because she's on nights. Or cut a few cords of wood to sell. Or fix computers.
Or change folks' oil. If you don't have a small business right now, you have in the past and will again in the future. A couple hundred bucks from that business is the difference between just barely scraping by and some commercial luxuries in life for most of us.

BoysMom

[(Anonymous)]

"If you don't have a small business right now, you have in the past and will again in the future. A couple hundred bucks from that business is the difference between just barely scraping by and some commercial luxuries in life for most of us." - Agreed.

[(Anonymous)]

On reading this very thoughtful post I immediately thought of what you've been saying the past 5 or more years. I've shared it with numerous friends (Dems or leftward) with apparently not even a single glint of understanding, if they even read it: https://blog.usejournal.com/why-trump-is-likely-to-win-again-23e56ccff95b

One piece of this nut puzzle I can't place though, is how QAnon fits in, unless it's just what it appears to be becoming, a resurgent Evangelical end times cult currently being used for fun and profit by an assortment of characters like Bannon and alt-right 4chan mages and 🐸.

Waiting excitedly for The King in Orange.

[ecosophia]

QAnon has the sticky fingerprints of military intelligence all over it. The people who are behind it are using exactly the same M.O. that the Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AFOSI) has been using for decades to lead UFO believers by the nose, so the Pentagon can continue to use "UFOs" as camouflage for the latest secret military aircraft tests. The Pentagon is one of Trump's major sources of support in Washington officialdom -- they're sick and tired of being used as errand boys by the State Department/CIA nexus that ran the show in the Obama years and backed Clinton --so my working guess is that some "retired" military intelligence personnel cooked up QAnon as a way of firming up Trump's support in certain demographics and spinning the collective dialogue on social media to their advantage.

[(Anonymous)]

That makes total sense, ughhhh. The precursor Anonymous (2011-2015 or so) from which QAnon replicated it's organizing strategies, was infested with informants from every 3-letter type agency on the planet. So intel groups were already in place in their forums and chat rooms. Using public IRCs to run ops didn't work out so well (because on the Internet some do have the means to determine if you are in fact a dog...) I guess analogous to posting magical workings on public sites where they can be easily messed with.

[(Anonymous)]

"Vote Republican -- They've Got Their Problems But The Other Side Is Insane" - The other side cares too much about pronouns to actually listen to poor people.

Realilty

[revert2mean]

I'm Australian and don't get to vote in this election, but I find unworkable beliefs very interesting. I'm the one from magic monday who says Merlin came to me in a dream and told me to drink carrot juice to cure my health problems. And I do believe that's what happened. I don't know much about ceremonial magic. I seem to have been born into one of these shamanic dreaming traditions, for whatever reason. (A debt that I owe, or a bet that I lost, as Jackson Brown would say?)

Anyway, after all these years I know a few things for sure. The dreamworld is the real world, it's just confusing to us. The hard part is functioning as a wife, mother, employee, consumer, investor etc. in this world while firmly holding all these beliefs no one else shares. The reason I can, though, is because those beliefs are true and I know they're true because they always work. The advice you get in a true dream will be the best advice you'll ever get anywhere and you should always follow it.

I can't help thinking all of these people should learn that their beliefs are not true because they don't work. Maybe certain individuals are working that out. Maybe these people have never had to judge their belief framework before.

[robertmathiesen]

I think you're quite right about the explanation, JMG! and that it will not end well. "Those whom the Gods would destroy, they first make mad." also

[ecosophia]

That quote has occurred to me more than once...

[(Anonymous)]

And - to go back 19 years - "whatever nation the gods would destroy, they first convince to conquer Afghanistan."

Sepia Oracular Sheep.

[(Anonymous)]

The same Afghanistan that has been known as the "graveyard of empires" for centuries if not millennia...

Maroon Palpitating Pangolin

[(Anonymous)]

If Alexander the Great couldn’t take and hold what is now Afghanistan, there was precious little reason to think Tweedlebush and Tweedlerumsfeld could. (Granted he did capture Bessos, but otherwise Afghanistan was for him, as for would-be conquerors before and since, a game of whack-a-mole.)

[(Anonymous)]

Funny how these people have now invested all their hopes in creepy senile Biden, an unlikely saviour who has a serious rape allegation against him but the #metoo crowd conveniently ignore that.

I was talking to some Karens about Trump. They hate him but their main problem with him is the way he speaks.

"He speaks like a child"
"He can't use long words"

They loved Obama's flowery speeches in contrast. Funny how it's never about their actions, their whole focus is on who is the best smooth talker, as if that's the most important thing. 24 hour news channels have a lot to answer for.

[ecosophia]

Yeah, watching #BelieveAllWomen suddenly give way to #BelieveJoeBiden was practically enough to give you whiplash. As for the Karenocracy, I wonder if that's another aspect of the huge class dynamic at work in the present situation: i.e., if what they're saying works out to "He doesn't talk like a member of our class, he talks like a prole..."

[brendhelm]

Ergo fortassis, pro bono Karenibus suntne cunctos suos sermones sequentes latine loquendi?

("So for the Karens' benefit, perhaps he should give all his following speeches in Latin?", in case my appalling autodidactically gleaned grammar failed to parse.)

[ecosophia]

That's quite grammatical, and parsed at a glance. The phrase "Pro bono Karenibus" deserves a place in general usage! As for your point, though, not at all -- the Karenocracy knows no more about Latin than they do about the actual lives of working class Americans. If you can translate it into Barack Obama, on the other hand... ;-)

[(Anonymous)]

I’ve never encountered a Karen who spoke Spanish as a 2nd language, oddly enough. It’s just as well. If they found out there is no such thing as “Hispanic”—Mexicans are not Guatemalans are not Salvadorans are not Puerto Ricans and none of them are Cubans—they’d be horrified. And if they understood conversations they overheard in restaurants patronized by persons from the above countries, the liberal Karens, at least, would run screaming into the street.

Karens not speaking Spanish

[(Anonymous)]

I’ve tried to have that conversation with my “No Wall” neighbors, to little effect. Mentioning that Mexico is a man’s country and that the majority of the population hold conservative social views won’t be believed.
“Jose is such a nice guy and a really hard worker and Maria is so good with the kids,,,”
Yes that’s true but they also think gabachos are weak and easily fooled and that gabachas are loose

[(Anonymous)]

Same with lumping everyone from "Asia" in together (even East Asia, before you even get to lumping in South Asia).

I think there is (somewhat) better awareness of different countries like that in Europe.

My wife (schoolteacher in urban deprived areas in England) says that more than religion/race/nationality she sees big differences in ability to assimilate by immigrants depending on whether they (or rather their parents) have urban or rural backgrounds.

So for eg kids from a tiny village in rural Pakistan assimilate with much more difficulty than a kid from urban Lahore, despite having same race, religion and even level of wealth in the family (same for kid from rural Turkey vs kid from Istanbul etc).

[kevintaylorburgess]

A couple days ago I overheard someone insisting she was voting for Joe Biden, despite the accusations against him probably being credible, because she hated the idea of a rapist in the White House. So I guess it's not gotten through to everyone yet that Joe Biden must be believed no matter what. It's just, the people who adopt that might be marginally less crazy sounding...

[(Anonymous)]

Which is grotesquely ironic, considering that there are credibly allegations of rape against Biden, at least as credible as the allegations of the same that have been leveled against the Orange Julius. And that doesn't include Biden's long and well documented history of hair sniffing, groping and fondling members of the opposite sex onstage and other creepy sexual behavior.

This is a man who even many of my leftist Democrat friends call "Creepy Joe" in private, and he earned that nickname for a very good reason...

[kevintaylorburgess]

I find it hillarious, but I have a very warped sense of humour. As for the veracity of the claims, well, given what he does publically, I take most of the claims against him fairly seriously.

[(Anonymous)]

She doesn't want one accused (but never convicted) rapist in the White House, so she's going to vote another accused (but never convicted) rapist into the White House.

If that's the marginally less crazy option, I'd hate to see the marginally more crazy option...

[kevintaylorburgess]

The marginally more crazy option is to scream about believing all women, except if they accuse Joe Biden. It's still crazy either way, but it might be possible to sound less crazy taking the arguments seriously and still want to vote against Trump because he's sleezy. Just barely though.....

[(Anonymous)]

The even crazier (marginally or otherwise) option is to say you believe Tara Reade, but that you are still supporting Biden. There are a number of prominent liberal activists who have actually come out and said that. It's no wonder a growing number of people no longer take them seriously.

Yes indeed.

[(Anonymous)]

Due to growing up with a neurotic mom, I've had these ideas in the back of my mind for years. I keep waiting for a "let them eat cake" moment that'll jolt people out of the trance, but nothing does it. Some kind of shock will happen and I'll think "Is this it? Will this do it?" but so far none of these things has shaken people awake. I remember in high school English we had to write one sentence about ourselves, and I wrote "I am the person who shivers in the dark as zombies pass by." But I didn't mean zombies; I meant everyone around. It's eerie.

Re: Yes indeed.

[ecosophia]

I don't think a shock will do it. I'm not sure what will.

Re: Yes indeed.

[kevintaylorburgess]

I think a lot of them will hold those ideas until the day they die. What'll do it is when sane people figure out how to marginalize and exclude the lunatics. I think we're getting there, but it'll probably take a few more years.

Re: Yes indeed.

[(Anonymous)]

That’s a great sentence! Have you considered starting off a novel with it? I’d buy your novel. I envision myself sitting in a pool of reading-lamp light in a dark room in my creaky old house in Arkham, reading your story...

—Lady Cutekitten

Re: Yes indeed.

[(Anonymous)]

Thank you; that's very kind. By the way, OT, but this last mother's day I remembered you posting on MM that you would volunteer as a stand-in mom to the people writing in to JMG trying to figure out how to place healthy boundaries with unhealthy parents. That was a little reminder of "There are well adjusted moms out there." So thanks. <3 :-)

Re: Yes indeed.

[(Anonymous)]

The offer’s good every Mother’s Day! 🥰

Re: Yes indeed.

[(Anonymous)]

And if anyone really needs a stand-in mom we can work something out for the other 364 days.

Now don’t forget to leave the shoggoths some polenta and a nice big pot of tea before you lock up for the night. They like their snacks. Also, someone named Mumble dropped by looking for you earlier. Why do kids these days always talk to their toes? Hey! Don’t leave without your sunscreen! The sun will be back tomorrow, you know! Have a good night!

(I should start a Rent-a-Mom business. I’m sure there are other old ladies who have plenty of good advice left to dispense.)

—Ma Cutekitten

[violetcabra]

An excellent and eerie point! From my experiences in suburban Massachusetts I would guess that about 20% of the well-to-do are mad in the way you describe. Another 60% go along with the crazed 20% while having personal reservations, and the last 20% have various degrees of hostility to the whole sweeping madness.

It's very eerie to wonder how the body count will tally and the endgame play out. If my estimate is correct, we're talking about approximately 4% of the population of the United States having descended into total madness or about 13 million people. What does a society do with that many people who have lost their minds?

[ecosophia]

I'm glad to hear it's only 20%. A society can cope with that. As for what will happen to them, I have only anecdotal evidence to go by, but I've heard now from three different people who say they know people on the left who are planning on laying in a stock of vodka and sleeping pills on election night in case things don't go the way they want. Depending on how widespread that sentiment becomes, the problem may take care of itself. Ghoulish, but such things happen...

[(Anonymous)]

What kind of lives would they be reborn into? If it's widespread, would it risk recreating similar circumstances to the present ones, so the people who killed themselves had another chance to deal with it?

[ecosophia]

Demographers are saying that we're near the all-time peak of world population, and once we pass that there will be a steady decline in births. That's going to space out incarnations considerably, and so it's not likely that more than a scattering of such people will be reborn at any one time. Of course they'll have some difficult karma to deal with!

[(Anonymous)]

The situation really is looking more and more like a cult the morning after the messiah no-showed. One might use the rite of gendarme summoning if such threats are credible. Rusty

[ecosophia]

It reminds me rather of my favorite scene from Erik the Viking...

[(Anonymous)]

Nailed it. Do ya s’pose these people will get on with their lives, or will reality forever elude them? R

[ecosophia]

That's the biggest of all big questions right now, and I don't know the answer.

[kevintaylorburgess]

The image at the end of the people who sat and refused the boat being offered because it's "fearmongering" as they drowned seems way to plausible. As someone with contacts with the privileged, I think it's far more likely most won't get it at any point in their current lives.

[robertmathiesen]

One of my all-time favorite films--so many good scenes in it.

[open_space]

>> You hit him!

<< Well, that is what you are supposed to the isn't?

hahaha

[(Anonymous)]

Goats and Roses
I am shocked that you linked to a video! I thought you didn't like them..... :)

[(Anonymous)]

Wowsers. That’s REALLY crazy. 😳

—Lady Cutekitten

[(Anonymous)]

Several comments down from the original, this may be a little confusing; what I meant was really crazy was killing yourself over a guy who will perforce be gone in 4 years.

[(Anonymous)]

I goofed on my previous reply, if it went through. Please delete it.

...they know people on the left who are planning on laying in a stock of vodka and sleeping pills on election night ...

I am so glad I took election week off. I can stay home and off the streets, and already be stocked up with popcorn and other snacks to watch the meltdown.

Joy Marie

[(Anonymous)]

Keep in mind the usual refrain in certain liberal quarters is always “I’m moving to Canada if {Republican} wins,” and no one ever does. The suicide comment is more dramatic but should be taken about as seriously as a statement of intent, like an NRA rally that’s full of toothless promises to overthrow the government.

[kevintaylorburgess]

Part of the problem is that it's not that easy for an American to move to Canada. If you don't have relatives or certain skills/education we happen to want, well, you're outta luck. There was enough interest that it tanked the immigration site in 2016 when Trump won. So I'm not so sure the "I'm moving to Canada" thing can be dissmissed so easily: I think a lot of people genuinely planned to do it, and then discovered it probably wouldn't work.

So, in the same way, even though I think a lot of people might regret it if the live until December, I can see a lot of people killing themselves.

[(Anonymous)]

You need to check up on the NRA's positions - They're very pro-government and aligned with the Republican Party. And, as the second most influential lobbying organization in the US, they are not toothless.

[tutti_quanti]

Yeah, I was thinking, "Have you actually been to an NRA rally?"

[(Anonymous)]

As our host has pointed out a number of times, in recent decades government officials have tended to treat armed right wing protests (like the Bundy's in Nevada and Oregon or the armed protesters earlier this year at the Michigan state capitol building) with kid gloves, because they don't want to risk provoking an insurgency. They know there are a lot of well-organized, heavily armed right wingers, many of them military vets and yes, groups like the NRA and Gun Owners of America do have a lot of political influence.

[(Anonymous)]

The GOA not so much. The NRA’s revenue in 2018 was $412 million. The GOA’s is usually around $2.2 million. You might look into the NRA’s role in firearms instruction and safety training to see how deep and wide their influence is. (Pet topic. Please excuse my geekout.)

Not getting the election result they wanted?

[(Anonymous)]

Are these the same people who threatened/promised us that they'd emigrate to Canada if Trump won the first time around? I don't recall anyone making good on that plan. Some people just like to live in a state of enhanced drama.

Lathechuck

Re: Not getting the election result they wanted?

[ecosophia]

Pretty much. I think their next trick is to threaten to hold their breath and turn blue if Trump doesn't leave the White House.

Re: Not getting the election result they wanted?

[jpc2]

That seems to be about as good a strategy for turning the country BLUE as I've heard :-) Now what can the Republicans come up with to turn the country RED? (not ORANGE)

Re: Not getting the election result they wanted?

[ecosophia]

Well, it's not as though there are shortages of things to be embarrassed about...

[methylethyl]

I feel like that 60% is the segment that changes loyalty on a dime, as soon as someone else achieves social power.

[violetcabra]

That's my take, as well. Roughly speaking there are those competing power groups in power, the great bulk of society that does along with them, and then a much smaller number of people on the outs who promote and seek to attract alternative power centers amongst people who are almost universally indifferent. When the Soviet Union fell one of the biggest surprises was even after all of the brutal purges and the propaganda, how very, very few people were true believers. I think that once the 4% or so of the population who really and truly _believes_ runs off the rails people will be shocked to see how limited and contingent was the support of the rest of the comfortable classes, not to mention the rest of society. Still, we will see.

[open_space]

I had a minor mental breakdown that lasted for about a year when suddenly it became really clear that my mind was not me (yes, meditation can be overdone, quite easily in fact. Do not recommend!) and that the things that I had put there would fight back to stay there. Add to that an unhealthy habit of smoking weed and realizing that it makes you much more sensible to omens and divination and I almost popped. I hopped that served to clear some karma at least!

Realizing that what you thought real is not can be quite terrifying, I assume that is why their minds somewhat protects them to not see it. The problem is that what their minds are latching to is nothing but hot air sold as truth because there are interests involved that sustain that reality. I wrote a small thing on which I argue that since a big chunk of humanity has lost touch with Nature, the needs and experiences that Nature provides were not met and found escape in what I called the cyber-nature, the surrogate equivalent of what Life around them provides: awe, sustain, connectedness, respect, etc in debased ways. The problem with that is that you are attaching to something which is not fulfilling to those needs because it only emulates them, as you have argued before. If people are too deep into the cyber-nature everything inside them goes backwards and spills into their psyche and I argue that is what is behind the strong sense of attachment to this delusional type of thinking. To them, it’s their lives and environments that are collapsing in the same way that, say, for a shaman his world collapsed when his forests was destroyed.

If the situation around them slowly starts showing that their reality is not what they think (or scream) it is, on top of being worn down by the self imposed lockdown, because that side of the spectrum is the one that bought it to the extreme. Ooof. Have you noticed how many people on the internet fantasize with suicide and depression memes? And they laugh hard at them. If there is anyone in Zeta Reticuli, they will wonder if we decided to built a planetary sized popcorn machine.

[ecosophia]

Open_Space, thanks for this. That makes a great deal of sense. Getting attached to a simulacrum of nature created by people is extremely risky, of course, because of the positive feedback: the people who are dependent on faux-nature are also creating faux-nature, either directly in their work hours or indirectly by choices that influence the market and are used as guidance by those who create faux-nature, and so a minor imbalance can blow up into mass psychosis with frightening ease.

[open_space]

Ouch, yes and that can very easily create a loop. The worse our realities get the more people will want to flee to the faux-nature in their search for tranquility, stability and pursuit of success and it is there that it accelerates right? Once something is no longer what it was supposed to be is a bad sign. The fact the software engineering jobs are no longer about actually engineering software makes me want to get outside of that world as soon as I can.

[(Anonymous)]

What are they about now?

[(Anonymous)]

Hello Open Space,

Glad you’re better!

Second, your account reminds me of a notion I have, that man has an inherent need for the numinous, and fashionably atheist PMC types (not that I’m implying you were one), who refuse to admit that they need at least one god, unconsciously try to fill this need in the wrong ways, like dabbling in spiritual practices from religions they know nothing about. Many of these practices are highly sophisticated and deal with powerful forces. You can see where ignorant dabbling with such could get a person in big trouble, as you explained happened to you, regardless of the reason for the dabbling. It seems to me that the prevalence of such dabbling over the last 50 years may be a large factor in the increasing nuttiness of the PMC. What’s everyone else think?

—Lady Cutekitten

[open_space]

Thank you your kittenship!

What is PMC?

Actually, it was part of an intensive course of insight meditation, as taught by Mahasi Sayadaw with a very knowledgeable theravada monk, Yuttadhammo Bhikkhu, not so much as dabbling as I wanted to become one too. I do recommend his stuff highly, he takes care of his students very well. The recovering pothead in a the midst of a life crisis in a job he hates while trying to figure out where to go next was just not the appropriate candidate. The 5 precepts MUST be respected in such a path, it is not a recommendation, it is a necessity to hold on to your sanity so when I tried to use my drugged mind for improving my life when the teaching is of insight into the nature of truth I suddenly saw my mind, you know the thing you use to turn your life around, as something I was separating from. It was not fun to be in the middle of those two opposing forces.

[(Anonymous)]

PMC is the Professional Managerial Class.

While we’re at it, an AWFL is an Affluent White Female Liberal, a group that seems to have more than its share of lunatics.

[open_space]

Thank you! Two acronyms I have wondered about before. So awful is and acronym for Karens.

[(Anonymous)]

Lady Cutekitten:

I think you're onto something. Meditation and yoga sound so healthy and benign, but without a good teacher and proper grounding in the physical plane, you can get into trouble.

The dabbling is a problem too. The Way of the Dilettante is littered with unintended consequences, superficial understandings, and frayed connections.

Working with powerful forces requires skillful guidance, healthy respect and a careful approach.

"The further in you go, the bigger it gets."
-- John Crowley, "Little, Big"

[(Anonymous)]

I wonder if the mounting insanity isn’t a result, at least partly, of all these dabblers summoning demons who—surprise!—turn out to be real, and perhaps not inclined to return meekly to hell when the dabbler says to. Perhaps instead they leave, all right—to go out and have fun creating havoc.

Lady Cutekitten

[kevintaylorburgess]

I have to deal with the overly privileged regularly, and I think there's another issue which helps to extend this into madnessland: the pervasive notion that when reality fails to do what you want it to, it's only because you didn't believe it enough. Of course this means that even entertaining the possibility you might be wrong about something is akin to failing on it, and once you go there it's very, very hard to be able to think about anything....

[ecosophia]

I forget who it was that called that the Christian Science Fallacy: Belief A is true, and if your experiences contradict it, that shows that you didn't believe hard enough that Belief A is true. It does indeed make thinking hard!

[kevintaylorburgess]

I wonder if that's the point: make thinking impossible so that you never need to worry about what spending even just a few minutes of thought might reveal. This also explains the frankly shrill insistence progress is still happening: to those believers who've adopted the Christian Science Fallacy, to admit it's stopped is to admit to failure on the sole thing that matters.

[ecosophia]

You may well be right.

[(Anonymous)]

This strikes me as incredibly true and important. It has a parallel with new age-ism in that it's become such a pop culture, widely recognized thing today to "trust your intuition" it's almost like people are worshipping themselves, or at least the part of themselves that can make choices without conscious discernment. It's becoming blasphemous to suggest that sometimes they could be simply mistaking what they think is a gut instinct for just plain old emotional impulse or even self-fulfilling prophesies. Admitting that the bland, holy blanket category of "intuition" (which is often passed off as such but is really thoughtless reactivity) can be wrong is like going against the gospel for these folks. It's become a very unfortunate misunderstanding that is dogmatically and ruthlessly guarded. Until genuine humility can be restored internally, many who've fallen into this trap seem to be doomed to suffer repeat mistakes.

beleive hard enough

[ritaer]

Several years ago I read a blog by a former fundamentalist Christian. He is a gay man and also has a hearing deficit. He was told repeatedly by his religious leaders that if he prayed sincerely to be cured of his gayness, God would cure him. If he wasn't cured it must be because he didn't trust God enough, didn't pray sincerely enough or didn't really want to be cured. It occurred to him that he had also prayed sincerely to be cured of his hearing deficit--and surely no one would suspect that he had an ulterior motive to remain partially deaf. This realization enabled him to break out of the Catch 22 thinking, accept his homosexuality and leave his church.

Of course we are all programed to search out evidence that our beliefs are true and to downplay or ignore evidence that they are not true. Those who want more control of firearms will ignore every case of successful self-defense as a statistically meaningless fluke. I'm sure Christian Scientists exchange tales of successful healings just as Wiccans exchange tales of successful magical workings. Thinking is hard.

Rita

Re: beleive hard enough

[ecosophia]

Thanks for this. That's a great (and hopeful) story.

[(Anonymous)]

Wow! I definitely encountered a lot of that in my time in 12-step groups (they did me a lot of good, not meaning to be overly disparaging). Perfect description of the phenomenon. Thing is, sometimes it works! But then there's no way to know with 100% certainty what the results will be if you try harder! I guess belief and faith are good, but so are common sense and perspective, and the best results come when these are combined. On a side note, my grandfather was a Christian Scientist, and I'd say he was a deeply reasonable as well as spiritual man. It takes all kinds.

I want election week off work

[(Anonymous)]

I want to take that whole week around the election off of work. I work in a mostly liberal progressive environment and I remember all the people who called in sick and just acted crazy at work the day after the election in 2016. I want to avoid the inevitable meltdowns.

Turquoise Squamous Octopus

Re: I want election week off work

[ecosophia]

I'm going to make sure my wife and I have plenty of food in the pantry and no errands to run for that week, with that in mind -- I work from home, but I have no idea just how bizarre things might get.

Re: I want election week off work

[robertmathiesen]

I'm planning on doing that, too.

Re: I want election week off work

[(Anonymous)]

I work nights in a hospital in a college town. It's going to be ugly.

Re: I want election week off work

[methylethyl]

Ditto here. Not planning to go anywhere for at least a couple weeks, in case things get weird. Living in a deep-red area, I don't expect much, but... you never know.

Re: I want election week off work

[(Anonymous)]

Well, I just put in my request. I decided to take just the first three days off, wanting to save some time for other things later in the year, and in October. Speaking of October. The Halloween full Moon is just before election time. Could be crazy. I will also stock up on things for my wife and I. Making sure we have some extra groceries and the pantry is full. Also toilet paper because, well, people are in mad hatter mode.

Turquoise Squamous Octpous

Re: I want election week off work

[(Anonymous)]

Full moon right before election day? With things as crazy as they already are? Yikes!

A police officer once said to me "lunacy is real". Ask any cop, firefighter, paramedic, ER doctor or 911 dispatcher and they'll tell you a disproportionate number of calls come in a during a full moon and that's when they tend to see their craziest, most bizarre and most disturbing cases. Add a full moon to the batshale crazy TDS we are already seeing, and then having the Dems lose another election they were assured they would win easily? I will definitely be stocking up and try to stay indoors at home as much as possible that week.

Re: I want election week off work

[kevintaylorburgess]

Good idea. I might try to make sure I don't need to go anywhere for November though: I'm far from sure the insanity here will end after just one week....

[kevintaylorburgess]

Suddenly the way that the privileged can insist that a working class neighbourhood where half the people are minorities is full of unrepentent segregationists while their lilly-white suburb is a bastion of tolerance makes sense: they've decided it is so, and mere reality won't get in the way of that!

[ecosophia]

Exactly. "It's true because we say it's true!"

[(Anonymous)]

Exhibit A:

https://www.balloon-juice.com/2020/08/10/excellent-book-recommendations/

[ecosophia]

That's a good example, because it catches both the surreal mental state and the constant simmering state of rage at a universe that fails to cater to their idea of what they should do. It's a miserable way to live, and yet what can you do?

[(Anonymous)]

If they weren’t so hateful, you’d feel sorry for them.

[ecosophia]

No, quite the contrary, I do feel sorry for them. Their hatred is a product of their misery.

[kevintaylorburgess]

As someone who knows plenty of people caught in that state, I'm glad to know I'm not the only on who sees it. It's really hard to describe how pathetic they are.

[(Anonymous)]

As do I. I keep citing the Core Shamans who keep doing magic against Trump and keep being in rage about the patriarchy. It is a horrible place to be stuck as an heroic victim waiting to be saved.
Neptune's Dolphins

[kevintaylorburgess]

The comments are absolutely surreal. After tons of hate speech about Trump/Trump supporters, the reason why Trump supporters support Trump? They hate the rest of the country....

[(Anonymous)]

It's very telling that the guy kept talking about how *comfortable* that book is. Dead giveaway that he likes it because it supports his prejudices.

[(Anonymous)]

That wasn’t what bothered me. We all like having our prejudices supported. It was the comments! I poked around the site. Commenters seem to be uniformly PMC. These are people who have everything they need and most of what they want, and yet they hate everything and everybody except a handful of similarly miserable souls. What a horrible way to exist.

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro

[(Anonymous)]

Am just reading Paul Levy on Wetiko:
***
"In essence, genuine predators, 'full blown' wetikos (which can be an individual person or the 'person' of a corporation), are not in touch with their own humanity and therefore cannot see the humanity in others."

and

"Wetiko has its origin in the imagining and image-making psyche."
***

Been seeing a lot of cognitive dissonance recently and also doublethink.
Wetikos, Archons, madness brought on by cognitive dissonance or something else?
It feels like something major is happening as it is reflected in so many different areas of society.

I'm having to do more work to maintain dynamic equilibrium - and avoiding people, not for fear of disease, but because there seems to be 'madness in the air'. Saw a story earlier about some guy haranguing a bloke pushing a pram about not wearing a mask - guy just walked over, said 'don't you start on at me' and promptly floored the bloke in the mask, and then just walked off.

You mentioned a while back about a grand mutation at the end of the year(?)... plenty of time for things to get even weirder then?
[earthworm]

Re: When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro

[ecosophia]

I'm turning back to Giambattista Vico, who argued that societies rise out of a "barbarism of sense" in which raw sensory reality overwhelms the thinking mind, and sink back into a "barbarism of reflection" in which the thinking mind erases the last connection to raw sensory reality. He has a point...

Re: When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro

[(Anonymous)]

JMG: "...in which the thinking mind erases the last connection to raw sensory reality."

uhmmm... I guess we're seeing aspects of that already throughout society.

Fear shuts down thinking and is a tasty morsel for some - we have a banquet going on for that just now. I can see what you're saying about the class thing, and recently we've been having conversations with people who definitely seem to be losing a connection to sensory reality.

Grand Mutation Survival Pack:

7 Lucky Mojo Hoodoo sachets - (reality is what you want it to be)
1 inflatable Sphere of Protection (with scented candle)
1 Selfie Tarot Pack (Just provide 72 pictures of you!)
1 You are divine (divination set)
3 Grand Mutation Gift Experience Cards (because you are worth it)

...Only $1618.03

Re: When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro

[(Anonymous)]

I think you could make a fortune with the Selfie Tarot Pack in today's dysfunctional culture. You might even be able to cull some government largess out of it by setting the business up as a charity:

S-Centered Tarot™ is committed to excellence in providing victims of creativity deficit with the necessary imaginal seeds, systemically withheld from their neglected demographic, to promote growth of the green shoots of personal iconography with which they can decorate the padded cells of their minds.

Alas, someone in Toronto already beat you to the Inflatable Sphere of Protection, but only yours comes with an authentic scented candle at No Extra Cost!!! Purchase today!

https://nypost.com/2020/06/22/yoga-domes-could-be-the-new-social-distancing-fitness-craze/

— Christophe

Re: When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro

[(Anonymous)]

JMG: "-- the step that leads to madness -- and convinced themselves that they create everyone else's reality too."

That step really does seem to have been and gone doesn't it:

"Front-of-house staff may wear a face shield in lieu of a face covering only if the shield is designed to be worn inverted, attaching below the face (e.g. as a collar) and open at the top of the shield, with the shield extending above the eyes and laterally to the ears. Face shields that are open at the bottom, directing breath downward, are not acceptable replacements for face coverings for front-of-house staff. (Updated 8/14/20)"

https://www.maine.gov/decd/checklists/restaurants

Would post screen captures, but don't know if dreamwidth caters for that.

Mainly 'professional' class, but I'm seeing people from various classes exhibiting fear-based weird behaviour - More than one PMC (Proffessional Management Class) case has been wiping down shopping items with antiseptic wipes, then leaving out in sun for hours - obsessive antiseptic use on hands, door knobs and surfaces - mechanical and robotic repetition of political health slogans etc from the political nudge units alongwith compliance which began with the Thursday applause for the NHS (National Health Service), before that was retired. Easy switch from the 2 minute love to the 2 minute hate I reckon.

I see the sense in good cleansing/banishing rituals for sure, but once madness like this, and clinical symptoms like the Karenocracy, manifest on the material plane, I can't shake the feeling we have a bigger problem than I thought.

Not familiar with Vico but found this:
***
“...such peoples [in the barbarism], like so many beasts, have fallen into the custom of each man thinking only of his own private interests and have reached the extreme delicacy, or better of pride, in which like wild animals they bristle and lash out at the slightest displeasure"

Vico holds that the barbarism of reflection (which he also calls the 'barbarism of the intellect') is worse than the barbarism of sense; the barbarism of sense, what we usually think of savagery, has 'generous fierceness' -- while it's a state of war of all against all, it's of the kind against which you can fight back or from which you can run away. But the barbarism of reflection has 'vile fierceness' -- it's a war of all against all in which people speak soft words and play innocent out of malice and cunning. There are no more fair fights, because the preferred weapon is the poisoning of social relations. It is the corruption and then the dissolution of the senso commune that binds the community together.

***
Holy field-truffles, Batman!

JMG: "...this will not end well."

As things look right now, that has to be one of the understatements of the year!
;)

As per Chief Tecumseh, time to dust off my 'noble death song' and see how well the tune goes with a danse macabre...

A nation with no carry

[(Anonymous)]

I don’t see anything especially odd about the behavior you describe. People who have concepts fixed in their heads of what is true in their heart of hearts routinely and obstinately cling to their treasured concepts over reality and still remain capable of functioning as a dangerous enemy.

That is why Sojourner Truth’s speech “Ain’t I a woman?” is so famous, and had so little effect at the time. The concept of Southern Womanhood and the delicate flowery qualities of artificially fashioned femininity were too well fixed in the minds of those opposed to the abolition of slavery for them to even see the laughable lie at the heart of their dearly-beloved ideal.

They were not mad. They were self-interested to the point of stupid blindness, but they were fully able to load a rifle and rationally fight the humanitarian tide in the halls of justice, legislation and the field of battle. And they continued long into the 20th century to fight the same fight on ever more unstable and sinking ground. Not until gay marriage became the law of the land did they know how very lost was their cause; yet they are still fighting to this day. Are they all mad or just of one-pointed mind? If it is madness to hold loyally to an ideal, how many patriots, oil-based capitalists and partisans are not mad? As for being self-interested, tell me who is not?

The Sufis say that nearly everybody is going around drunk. To be sober and know the truth is a difficult, lonely place to live. That is one of the meanings of the tale about the ‘changed waters’ cited elsewhere by a commenter. If some people are drunk on notions of the proper subordinate place for women and colored people to be locked down into and some are drunk on the idea that poor people are racist scum whose gonna volunteer to take away their ideal-liquor bottles? There’s no more Carry Nation to take an axe to our nation.

Surely you are not expecting to use Reason to change people’s minds? Reason is a whore to self-interest. You can try to pry people off their Ideal pedestals with crowbars of religion, bribe them off the plinth with money and status, or embroil the lot in a hot killing war that forces them to rely on their hated rivals for sheer survival. You can use drugs or dance or juicy dirty jokes or books and movies, plays and fervid imaginations, even prayer. But it is most unreasonable of you to expect to move people with the dry melba toast of Reason.

Re: A nation with no carry

[ecosophia]

Where did you get the idea that I was expecting to use reasoning for that purpose? You might consider looking up the word "occultist" someday... ;-)

Re: A nation with no carry

[(Anonymous)]

Perhaps it wasn't you who said "I calmly say" this X or that Z, which sounds like an attempt at reasoning and an expectation of reasoned discourse.

Re: A nation with no carry

[ecosophia]

I just read through my entire post and I couldn't find the words "I calmly say" anywhere in it. Perhaps you can help me here.

Re: A nation with no carry

[(Anonymous)]

It was an anonymous poster who said this:

In particular I think the kind of evidence you point to here - "X says Y, I calmly explained that not-Y, X must be a post-truth post-modernist" - is one.

sickness of the soul or spirit

[(Anonymous)]

Another from Levy:
***
Wetiko/malignant egophrenia is a 'psychosis' in the true sense of the word as being a 'sickness of the soul or spirit'.

"Though calling it by different names, Forbes and I are both pointing at the same illness of the psyche, soul and spirit that has been at the root of humanity's inhumanity to itself."
***

The madness really seems like a thing; if Sheldrake's morphic fields and resonance are a thing too, then it is going to take some effort to wade through this soup.

JMG you mentioned a while back about changing your practices (for the times?) - anyone else finding their practices need to be adapted recently?

Re: sickness of the soul or spirit

[ecosophia]

In my case, it wasn't a change for the times, it was a change to lay the necessary tracks in space so that readers and students of a forthcoming book would have an easier time of it. Daily banishing, though, is even more crucial now than usual!

Any Functioning Adult

[(Anonymous)]

I'm very curious to see the outcome of this election, and am also very curious to read your upcoming Libra Ingress chart for Washington D.C. based on your comments in this week's Magic Monday. I really just don't know what to make of this election; I know polls were off in 2016, but they weren't as insanely off as conventional wisdom now says. If the polls of today were to be at all believed, even if they were as off as they were in 2016, you would have to think an election held today would lead to a Trump loss.

I just don't know if I should trust that in the least, though. It doesn't feel quite right. On the other hand, I live in a very blue city on the West Coast and my impression is that people hate Trump and have largely gone along with the ever-crazier critical theory/identity politics of the left. I feel somewhat crazy because I've been some version of a liberal basically all my life and I'm wondering how the frack we got to the point where it's the left advocating censorship, humorlessness, incredibly restrictive views on sex (see the Alex Morse dust up of late), and just a general dispirited moroseness and absolutely miserable outlook on life and the world. My god, we used to mock the conservatives for that! Now it's the expectation for the left and its the conservatives, more and more, that have a sense of humor--at least, if you're not so driven by TDS that you can actually see the ways in which Trump is often pretty funny.

But I don't hear this view much. That said, I wouldn't state it myself to most people in my life. I admit it--it feels too risky. (Though I avoid lying about what I think, either--mostly I just try to stay as noncommittal as possible.)

That makes me wonder if the shy Trump voter theory might be real for 2020. I don't know if there's much evidence it was very real in 2016, but perhaps we've gone so far around the bend at this point, it is for 2020. Or perhaps the polls are useless because they have the turnout model all wrong, and there are going to be a lot more Trump voters coming out than they expect. I don't know.

One interesting thing I've noticed, though. Here in this very blue city, I have seen I believe all of two Biden lawn signs. I don't know if that really means much, to be honest; people I know who work in campaigning love to mock lawn signs and the notion that they mean anything. But there are BLM signs everywhere--they probably doubled or tripled nearly overnight during the onset of the George Floyd protests--so it's not that no one puts up signs. Which, on that note, one sign I have seen a little more of lately (granted, still only a handful, but so far more than Biden signs) is "Any Functioning Adult 2020."

It's a little amusing, I admit, but it feels fascinating in one of those Freudian ways. These are newer signs, so far as I can tell, so they were put up after it was clear Biden would be the nominee, not during the heat of the primaries. At that point, they make more sense as a humorous commentary for those who hate Trump and think he's . . . well, a non-functioning adult, and that any of the primary candidates would be a better replacement. After the nominee is decided? Well then, not only can you apparently not bring yourself to put up a Biden sign, but you put up one that . . . uh . . . shall we say, could perhaps also serve as a bit of inadvertent commentary on Biden's clear cognitive decline? I mean, it all seems a little on the nose. Is that really the smartest meme to put out there right now?

It almost feels like a tacit (not that I think it's at all purposeful) admission that there is no functioning adult in the running, at least if you hate Trump and think of him as incompetent.

All in all, my takeaway is that this election on both sides is 100% about Trump, that nearly no one is excited about Biden, that the left has gone off the deep end on critical theory to their detriment, and that I can't see how this could possibly wind up in a Biden election. But who knows? I feel like I've lost all political mooring these days, so perhaps the country will surprise me. It's part of why I'm so interested to see what happens November 3rd. Maybe it'll help clarify what the heck is going on in America.

Re: Any Functioning Adult

[ecosophia]

I've seen one of the "Any Functioning Adult" signs in Providence, RI, and I have yet to see a Biden sign or bumper sticker anywhere. The election will likely clarify things quite a bit; for what it's worth, I expect to have the US Libra ingress up later today.

Re: Any Functioning Adult

[brendhelm]

I have seen a couple Biden bumper stickers, but admittedly I'm pretty sure it was the same car both times, and if so it was definitely one with an Obama-logo bumper sticker on it prior.

Re: Any Functioning Adult

[(Anonymous)]

I've seen very few yard signs or bumper stickers out there yet. I have seen the BLM signs, and there are more Trump flags flying than previously. This might change the closer we get to November. I did see one bumper sticker I liked "Cthulhu for President 2020." I could go for that!

https://cthulhuforamerica.com/

Joy Marie

Re: Any Functioning Adult

[(Anonymous)]

The mention of messiah upthread reminded me of something: Trump is hardly the good shepherd figure, and judging by the adulation given to people like the governor of New York despite his mis-decisions, there are many looking for someone who can play the part of a good shepherd, regardless of their actual performance in office. Barack Obama played the part; Donald Trump does not.

Walking through an urban Black middle-class neighborhood the other day that has a BLM sign painted on the street at its edge I saw a black bust with a MAGA hat on it in the window. I didn't think this represented a trend. I did think that at least one middle-class black person has had it up to here.

Re: Any Functioning Adult

[pagantech]

But is BLM and MAGA mutually exclusive?

Re: Any Functioning Adult

[(Anonymous)]

There's one 'any functioning adult' sign down the street from me and while I've seen a few Biden and Trump bumper stickers, no lawn signs from either campaign have sprouted yet. It's still early though.

I attribute a lot of the behavior I've heard about to simple narcissism. But whether it's the narcissism of the individual or the culture they're embedded in is anyone's guess.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20366662

Magenta Nocturnal Filbert/JLfromNH

Re: Any Functioning Adult

[(Anonymous)]

A few small plastic freebee Biden signs here in Ohio. Trump signs are as sparse, but tend to be huge.

Re: Any Functioning Adult

[(Anonymous)]

Where I'm living on the Iron Range of Northeast Minnesota, I saw one person wearing a Biden face mask. The majority of signs I see are for Republican candidates, and there are a fair amount of Trump/Pence Flags. What has really caught my attention is the number of American flags that have gone up. There are more flags on lawns, cars, even hanging across the back of the cab in a truck once, then I have ever seen. The outcome of this election will definitely surprise some people.

Prizm

Re: Any Functioning Adult

[adwelly]

I’m an onlooker of course, and normally I’d hesitate to comment, but I read the Libra Ingress post this morning with huge interest. I suppose this is happening because essentially it’s time for it to happen.

The day before the US election in 2016, some wag in the office asked for predictions on a whiteboard. Several dozen yellow post-it notes for HC made the two orange (natch) Trump predictions stand out. There were over a thousand people in that open plan space and usually the first thing in the morning is a buzz of voices. On the following morning it was silence. The only other occasion I’ve encountered something similar was the day after the Brexit vote - on that morning you could have heard a pin drop.

The Betfair price for Trump to win this time round is down from the late July long odds, but Biden is still very much the favourite. I believe I shall have a flutter myself. Just for fun.

Andy

Re: Any Functioning Adult

[(Anonymous)]

Goats and Roses
I live in PORTLAND and I haven't seen ANY Biden yard signs. I saw one in Beaverton (next door to PDX). I have seen Trump flags on houses in Portland! Once you get outside of Portland, Oregon is quite red. Houses and cars there have a lot of American flags, and a few Trump stickers on bumpers. There is a lot of simmering resentment in red Oregon about the crazies in Portland, rioters and government officials alike. But not much display, except flags which seem to be a restrained way to indicate Trump support. (Portland rioters regularly burn flags.) Meanwhile the sales in guns and ammo surge to unbelievable levels. I am undecided whether it is safer to go somewhere else the first week of Nov, or stay here to safeguard my home.

Re: Any Functioning Adult

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, American flags have become a discreet way of signaling that you don't stand with either type of crazy. Here in Pennsylvania the countryside is red, while the cities are fervently blue (as in they organize hate campaigns against anyone they find out isn't blue.) I would recommend you stay local during the election, not only to protect your home but also to witness the death pains of a false religion. That's not something you see every day, nor are you likely to comprehend its true impact from the safety of the countryside. Here, our friendly neighborhood rioters got so crazy in June that I did not even put up a flag or decorations for Independence Day.

If simply hanging a flag could turn my townhouse into a target for arsons, I can only imagine what putting up a Trump sign would do! They might take out the whole neighborhood with tactical nukes to contain the dreaded pathogen. Somehow, I think that pathogen escaped a long time ago and spread throughout the rural regions. When it at last becomes apparent that it also ripped its way through their safe-space cities, might they finally be willing to lay down their Covid paranoia and admit to the populist contamination they have actually been afraid of the whole time? People can act so stupid when they don't understand the symbols and metaphors they are trying so unsuccessfully to wield.

Covid also made for a really unsatisfying stand-in, as far as I'm concerned. Posters proclaiming "We're all in this together!" with images of scary, scary populists creeping up from below would have been much more entertaining. Instead of trying to glamorize mandatory vaccination by shrieking "A vaccine for everyone!", they could have promised "a Biden in every pot"; your very own personal Biden to hear your prayers; Saint Biden, the dragon slayer, felling badly coiffed, orange dragons everywhere!

They could have had so much more fun than praying to their futile lockdown to save them from the consequences of their choices. At least they finally got to don the ritual regalia of the great priests of their dying religion — that's a little bit of fun at least. "Look, Ma, Susie and me are real doctors; we got mask and gloves on!" Still looks to me like a pretty watered down role play if they won't let you near the scalpels or dispensary. Some folks are just willing to settle for dull.

— Christophe

Re: Any Functioning Adult

[deborah_bender]

Anonymous writes " I've been some version of a liberal basically all my life and I'm wondering how the frack we got to the point where it's the left advocating censorship, humorlessness, incredibly restrictive views on sex (see the Alex Morse dust up of late), and just a general dispirited moroseness and absolutely miserable outlook on life and the world."

Humorlessness and judgmental attitudes towards how other people dress, their amusements, and so forth have always been evident in a certain segment of the Left. It prompted Emma Goldman, the anarchist, to make the famous remark (more or less), "If I can't dance, it's not my revolution.")

There is no clear boundary between the desire to reform, to make improvements to society, and the desire to control other people's behavior. This comes up on the Left and on the Right, among the religious and among militant atheists. Beyond that, people who feel threatened want to gain control over the source of the threat, and if you desire more power, the ability to punish behavior is a positive feedback loop. The more rules, the more violations, the more punishment, the more power accrues to the enforcers of rules. Lust and passion don't want to follow rules; that's why there is a Women's Anti-Sex League in 1984.

I got an insight into another side of this dynamic during the 1990s, when I revisited a scene that I had been involved with about a decade earlier but had mostly left. On this side, the judgmentalism and the resulting humorlessness were self-protective. I don't want to go into detail because I don't want to stereotype a group of people who have a lot to contend with and made the best choices that seemed to be open to them at that time.

They were trying to get some control over their own lives after having been stepped on a lot, and were protecting themselves by limiting their social circle to people who had made similar life choices and who dressed and acted very much like themselves. They were very wary of trying out or being around any idea, action, personal presentation that was outside the boundaries of what they themselves did, because they were deeply angry. Under the anger was fear, because they felt victimized, and they felt powerless. They were Puritanical because they viewed the entire world as a threat. Being in that state of mind, and spending all their time with other people who reinforced that point of view, closed off a lot of possibilities for regaining any sense of personal power.

Re: Any Functioning Adult

[(Anonymous)]

The "don't tell 'em you're voting for Trump" movement is strong this time around, it's even organized and has advertised itself on a few FB boards I linger on. Add to that the number of people who avoid answering any number they don't recognize, and polls are almost useless these days, period.

Re: Any Functioning Adult

[(Anonymous)]

That parallels what I have seen in the small Pacific Northwest town I live in. Lots of Trump signs (including people driving around in big turbo-diesel pickup trucks with huge Trump campaign signs mounted in the bed), plenty of BLM signs, still some people with Bernie Sanders bumper stickers on their cars. But I have yet to see a single Biden campaign sign or sticker in the area where I live. I really have to think he got the nomination merely because he was the default establishment candidate, but there seems to be little if any real enthusiasm for him, which does not bode at all well for the Democrats come November.

[(Anonymous)]

I placed a small bet on Trump to win. I don't make the mistake of listening to pollsters now. I think I will be making some easy money in November.

[peter_van_erp]

I made that bet two years ago, and doubled it last summer. I would double it again if I could go to church, but the COVID has kept me from the mark.

[(Anonymous)]

The Democrats do look cursed. Joe Biden is almost senile, Kamala Harris got zero support in the primaries and isn't a "real" African-American, Bill Clinton and Hunter Biden adress the Dem convention, they want to sue and disband the NRA, they still deny Antifa even exists, and by banning QAnon they make everyone talk about it...

I never seen such an inept campaign. Can they even pull off vote fraud at this point?

Oh, and that covid thing.

TIDLÖSA

[(Anonymous)]

The results of the election will clarify nothing except that the democratic process in the United States is broken beyond repair. Regardless of which candidate wins, the losing side won't accept the results, and with good reason.

The anguished meltdown of our nation's 200+ year experiment in democracy will continue.

"Things fall apart, the center cannot hold...."

[syfen]

Are you also noticing how many people aren't voting for a candidate or ideology, but against the other candidate or ideology?

May this fevered maddess break soon...

Regards,

Syfen

[(Anonymous)]

Can you point me to the debate with you and Mr. Hughes? I'd be interested in reading it. Was it on Magic Monday, or elsewhere?

[ecosophia]

Here you go.

[(Anonymous)]

I re-read the exchange. He firmly believed that Mueller would put Trump in jail. Now, many attempts to be rid of Trump later..... And no one seems to come up with anything. I do believe that the magical workings by him and my piddletwit friends are now more for coping with their lives as they find themselves than ridding Trump.

Neptune's Dolphins

[ecosophia]

That seems very plausible to me. (And "piddletwit" has just been added permanently to my vocabulary of unprofane insults, for which thank you.)

[(Anonymous)]

Thank you-I have a recent example of just this kind of madness: I work in an organization with a very deep 'social justice' perspective. It's a sort of typical regional social service agency. In a recent meeting (attendance not required but encouraged) focused on how our organiztion can increase equity and respond to recent Black Lives Matter events, our assistant director-so someone who manages and leads the organization-stated "I've come to see that white supremacy is the foundation of this county-so I'm hoping for a revolution. Hopefully not a violent one...". I was shocked that they would say such a thing, and also at the ignorance of imagining that any revolution would not be violent (at least for someone!). I didn't challenge the remark since to do so seemed dangerous. Needless to say, I'm plotting my escape... I've voted democratic or green in every national election for the past 40 years, and won't be doing so this time.

[(Anonymous)]

A data point to consider. I know quite a few people who fit into the demographic you're describing, and I would say that, for the post part, I don't think they're as delusional as you make them out to be. What I think is that they actually live so much in a bubble that they genuinely have no exposure to a well-made and thoughtful counter-argument. I'd like to think that if they actually hear one and have a chance to think about it, they would. But then, I've been disappointed before. I think a huge part of this is the internet and social media upping people's anxiety and reactivity to new levels. In a calm and relaxed setting, in person, in a small group or one-on-one, people can be surprisingly open minded and reasonable. It's just that such situations are increasingly rare, and people spending all their time online is more normal.

[lincoln_lynx]

Presenting counter-arguments isn't enough. The are programmed to reject alternative sources and perspectives by the media. Herd mentality is involved as well. If all your friends hate Orange Man and you don't then you are now a outcast.

[(Anonymous)]

I’ve seen accounts on the Internet of them sending RELATIVES who aren’t malignantly obsessed with Trump into Coventry. 😳. Siblings, even parents. It’s astounding.

[kevintaylorburgess]

Oh dear gods yes. It's not even enough to say "I don't have an opinion on that": you have to aggressively hate him. There's something truly weird going on here.

[kevintaylorburgess]

Honest question: have you tried this? I know people in the demographic as well and can't talk to them about a wide range of topics, since they just can't grasp that the universe is not required to give them whatever they want. I have, and gotten the exact same reactions JMG described.

Karl Rove

[(Anonymous)]

I wonder if there is something like a Karl Rove effect in play here - "That's not the way the world really works anymore. We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality- judiciously, as you will— we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out."

That was considered the height of hubris at the time, among left leaning people. But in the spirit of "what you hate you emulate", did the liberal left absorb this as some kind of spell?

Do the denizens of the Empire Of Progress believe that they are history's actors and the masses are left to simply study what they do and try and keep up?

Darren

Re: Karl Rove

[ecosophia]

I've brooded over that more than once, and it's one of the things that has convinced me that we're dealing with the mental dysfunction of a class, not a party. Membership in the professional-managerial class seems to be the common thread here.

Re: Karl Rove

[(Anonymous)]

Well... getting kicked out of the middle class and taking up Green Wizardry has been very good for my mental health!

[(Anonymous)]

Every time I read about the PMC's behavior over the past four or five years (particularly in relation to Trump) my mind inevitably comes back to the last four lines of this Bertolt Brecht poem:


The Solution

After the uprising of the 17th of June
The Secretary of the Writers' Union
Had leaflets distributed on the Stalinallee
Stating that the people
Had forfeited the confidence of the government
And could only win it back
By increased work quotas. Would it not in that case be simpler
for the government
To dissolve the people
And elect another?

[ecosophia]

Thank you for this! Brecht knew what he was talking about, too.

Adjacent Behaviors and Cars

[(Anonymous)]

Another adjacent philosophy to creating your own reality is the "blank slate" view of children. If your child is a blank slate, then you can "nurture" them into being whatever you want them to be.

I think this also comes into play with gender equality for Boomer women. Arguably this was the first generation for the equality experiment, and sometimes that was misinterpreted by women and men as putting women above reproach.

Finally, I first encountered this level of cognitive dissonance bordering on madness in regards to American community infrastructure being built for cars rather than humans. Our conception of the world is shaped by the infrastructure we are born into, and I am too young to remember what America was like before auto and tire companies bought up public transit systems and shut them down.

Thus, as a young person when I pointed out that there are cities in Europe and Asia where most people get around via infrastructure not involving cars, and autos are just a side helping of urban transit allowing for the rich to flex their toys, I'd get that thousand-mile empty stare. Then they'd address a straw man, as if I'd instead claimed "You are not allowed to get anywhere" and so they'd reply "Well, I might have to get somewhere, so I need a car."

Re: Adjacent Behaviors and Cars

[kevintaylorburgess]

People get really weird if you question the Great God Automobile. Seriously, I think that people worship the things, and it's truly, truly bizarre....

Re: Adjacent Behaviors and Cars

[(Anonymous)]

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who noticed!

Madness and fishing nets

[(Anonymous)]

Thank you for this! I'm living in Germany and it's still some time the next elections, but I notice an increasing madness around me, too. In fact, in the wake of the subject that shall not be named, this has reached new highs that I admit have become difficult to bear for me. It's become hard to keep the bullshit-filters working. This madness seems to spill over into much more areas of society and I begin to notice the pressure of the social grid which seems serve more and more like a fishing net than anything else. Frightening. Maybe start to cut the last ties and sail full speed ahead (if I knew the direction...), which is - as I have already written - difficult without any sign tentacled underground to rely on...

Cheers,
Nachtgurke

Re: Madness and fishing nets

[booklover1973]

I have had more or less the same experience. Mostly, I get by, but the craziness around us made some strong banishings necessary. I know people whose fear of the coronavirus is so high that friendships are neglected, and in the media there are reports of brawls between people who don't wear masks and other persons. The big problem seems to me to be that there is no official idea how to get out of the pandemic and back to a normal way of life.

Re: Madness and fishing nets

[booklover1973]

I forgot to mention that I'm living, too, in Germany. The most unbearable thing are the mass media with their monoculture of ideas, and their smugness. Where I live, the craziness doesn't increase, and people are mostly relatively sane, but there are exceptions.

Re: Madness and fishing nets

[bendithfawr]

Hi Nachtgurke,

I feel you. I live in the south of Germany (recently moved there from Berlin) and it seems like the craziness is getting worse by the day. Last week my sister-in-law (PMC through and through) went ballistic and accused me of racism because I said I didn't believe a "just" society was achievable. It seems everything is so politicized that a calm exchange of viewpoints is impossible.

I'm also dreaming of an "underground" of SOP-practicing, meditating and divinating people that can help keep each other sane. But how would we recognize us?

Schöne Grüße,

Bendith

Re: Madness and fishing nets

[methylethyl]

Look for the ones not frothing at the mouth or staring at phones?

Re: Thank you!

[(Anonymous)]

Many many thanks for your replies, Booklover and Bendith! A beautiful experience I had a few days ago came to my mind while reading your posts. I went for a walk - we have a lot of forests and fields around us - and came by a small river with a lot of trees on its banks. It was hot so I got my shoes off and walked through the shady riverbed for a little while. I had the idea to look for a few small, flat stones I could use for divination and decided to asked the river If I could take a few. At that moment my gaze fell on a tree which had a cable twisted around its trunk that already had started to cut into the bark. I removed the cable, then searched and found some stones and had very pleasant twenty minutes. Afterwards I was refreshed and happy and I had the feeling the river was happy, too. What was it, that made me happy? it was the communication and the mutual understanding I felt. I would love to have such feelings when communicating with humans more often!

I think one of the challenges to stay sane in a society that's collectively descending into madness is that everything is moving at an increasing, frantic pace and guideposts are scarce, possibly almost completely absent in a not too distant future.

That being said, I was pleasantly surprised by your kind replies! I am no expert in creating a SOP-practicing undergrounds and learning to communicate like the witches of the Haliverse might be difficult (or maybe our host can point us to some resource? ;-) ), but surely there are other ways!?

Viele Grüße,
Nachtgurke

Re: Thank you!

[(Anonymous)]

I would just like to say reading three Germans writing to each other in English on an American's occult themed blog was a high point of my evening reading.

Danke

Will O

Re: Thank you!

[(Anonymous)]

Gern geschehen :-)

Nachtgurke

Re: Thank you!

[(Anonymous)]

"That being said, I was pleasantly surprised by your kind replies! I am no expert in creating a SOP-practicing undergrounds and learning to communicate like the witches of the Haliverse might be difficult (or maybe our host can point us to some resource? ;-) ), but surely there are other ways!?"

This is something we have been thinking about too - but finding people to actually be able to hold conversations on subjects that interest us has proved a rare thing over the years - it happens every now and again but not often.

In many ways we have more communication with wildlife and insects than with other humans and mainly we just try and get on while staying out of the way and under the radar - but with what is going on now, I do wonder how easy that will continue to be.

It has been this way pretty much all my and my partners lives (we consider ourselves very lucky - and still be friends after 35 years together); so what is going on now is not so new but is more extreme. Being isolated gives freedom to explore ideas and things, but it is nice now and again to stop, meet and talk with people who are doing similar - at a caravanserai if you will.

Not the same as sitting around a crackling fire, but this blog serves a little like an online caravanserai - Mr Greer serves as the innkeeper stimulating conversation all the while while keeping a firm presence at the door to keep unruly disruptive influences outside.

[earthworm]