ecosophia | Frugal Friday

Welcome back to Frugal Friday! This is a weekly forum post to encourage people to share tips on saving money, especially but not only by doing stuff yourself. A new post will be going up every Friday, and will remain active until the next one goes up. Contributions will be moderated, of course, and I have some simple rules to offer, which may change further as we proceed.

Rule #1:  this is a place for polite, friendly conversations about how to save money in difficult times. It's not a place to post news, views, rants, or emotional outbursts about the reasons why the times are difficult and saving money is necessary. Nor is it a place to use a money saving tip to smuggle in news, views, etc. I have a delete button and I'm not afraid to use it.

Rule #2:  this is not a place for you to sell goods or services, period. Here again, I have a delete button and I'm not afraid to use it.

Rule #3:  please give your tip a heading that explains briefly what it's about.  Homemade Chicken Soup, Garden Containers, Cheap Attic Insulation, and Vinegar Cleans Windows are good examples of headings. That way people can find the things that are relevant for them. If you don't put a heading on your tip it will be deleted.

Rule #4: don't post anything that would amount to advocating criminal activity. Any such suggestions will not be put through.

With that said, have at it!

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

degringolade

I suppose that I knew it was going to happen.

Amazon no longer lets you download books that you have bought and store them on your own computer. Now you can only read books that you have purchased on devices that they control.

So, this isn't necessarily a frugal idea, but a way to distance yourself from a entity that has every intention of setting you up as a captive.

You can purchase e-books directly from the publisher. I would recommend that you do so. I would also recommend that you convert any book that you purchase from these folks into a format that you "own" and store the data on a device that you control.

You will probably spend more on the actual books, but it is my opinion that the middlemen who sell you the books will want to convert your ability to read books that you have purchased to a pay-per-view format and this is just the first step.

A query to JMG. Since you have a good audience, have you ever considered self-publishing? The calibre program has a pretty darned spiffy system for creating ePub and Mobi formats which all readers can use? I would be happy to send money directly to you without a publisher taking their grift.

From:

open_space

You can still download them and send to your kindle via wifi, it was the download and send with usb cable that was removed which batch downloaded all the books. Now you have to go one by one.

Their new format is "harder" to remove drm as well but someone will come up with something for the last bit probably. For the former, well I am probably not using Amazombie for my books anymore either, though the kindle itself should be fine for now.

From: (Anonymous)

IMHO just buy the print book if the grid goes down the paper will be just fine. If I down load info as a PDF I will look it over and print it out most of the time. Blueberry

From: (Anonymous)

Standard Ebooks (https://standardebooks.org) has many nicely formatted books for free download. They focus on books that are out of copyright, so you won't find new releases. But newer isn't always better.

From: (Anonymous)

I will soon have a large amount of fresh tomatos coming my way, and I want to prearrve them so they will last outside the fridge.

What comes to mind is pickeling, which I will probably do, but I was wondering if it's possible to make a fermented shelf stable salsa / sauce?

Any good recepies to try, or other suggestions are welcome, I have an open mind.

From: (Anonymous)

For paste tomatoes, I do water bath canning. If I have a lot of time on my hands, I'll do them whole for maximum versatility, but usually what I'll do is run them through a food mill so they're somewhere between sauced and crushed (since usually what I'm using them for is sauces, bakes, and braises).

I cut Xes in the skin on the bottoms and blanch them in boiling water, then run them through the mill and put them up in quart-sized jars with 1/2 t. of citric acid and process them in a water bath for 45 mins.

Last year between the tomatoes we grew and bought at market, we put up 40 lbs in late September. We're currently down to our last couple jars with tomato season still 5 months out, so we'll probably try to do 60-80 lbs this year.

From: (Anonymous)

I like to slice tomatoes, then dry them in the oven with a thin film of olive oil. Usually, the pilot light is sufficient. Then the oil infused maters can be frozen for winter use. The olive oil is not really necessary, and the slices could be seasoned in lots of ways for personal preference. What I like about this is that drying (and roasting) enhances the mater flavor, and the dried slices don't take up very much freezer space. Mary Bennett

From: (Anonymous)

We get very good results with running sliced tomatoes through our dehydrator. Store in whatever containers you've collected that will keep pantry moths and other pests out.

BoysMom

From:

milkyway1

Roasted tomatoes! Yummy!!

Cut the tomatoes in half and remove the stems. It doesn't matter if they are of different types and sizes. Only very large tomatoes should be quartered or cut into chunks.

Spread them out on a baking tray, cut side up (the tray can be packed full, and you can also have more than one tray).

Put some herbs on them (if possible, fresh twigs - in a pinch, dried herbs): e.g. rosemary, thyme, sage. (Soft herbs like basil won't hold up well during baking.). Sprinkle with some olive oil.

Put the tray(s) into the oven at 200 degrees Celsius and bake for about half an hour. If you have more than one tray, change position after a while, and if necessary leave them in a bit longer.

After baking, all the tomatoes should be well-roasted and soft, and your whole kitchen should smell yummy. ;-)

Remove the herb sprigs. Spoon the tomatoes into canning glasses (not too big ones), and distribute the liquid among them. Can the glasses for 20 minutes.

That's it - summer in a glass. :-)

You can use these tomatoes on pasta, rice, etc as they are, turn them into a sauce (e.g. with some cream or cream cheese), and use for all sorts of other recipes. They also make great gifts.

Milkyway

From:

michele7

Fermented products need a cool dark place like a refrigerator in order to keep. Here is a recipe for fermented salsa. Lisa says this will keep in the fridge for 3-4 months.

https://www.farmhouseonboone.com/lacto-fermented-salsa-recipe/

I live in Florida and keep fermented kimchi in the fridge for a long time.

You could just can your tomatoes to make them shelf stable and then use those in a fermented salsa. Here's a recipe.

https://traditionalcookingschool.com/food-preparation/recipes/fermented-tex-mex-salsa/

From:

prayergardens

https://www.lehmans.com/product/preserving-food-without-freezing-or-canning-book

I have a copy of this book and I just checked the index and they have 19 ways to preserve tomatoes without canning or freezing. I have not fermented a salsa but a while back I preserved cherry tomatoes in oil per the book. You do get oily tomatoes but I stuck them in a blender with the other ingredients for a vinaigrette and it worked.

From:

hippieviking

There's a lot of good suggestions already. I will just add that the wife and I did make a fermented salsa at one point. There was a couple in their 80s that lived nearby and sold vegetables they grew out of their garage. We ended up with a huge pile of awesome veggies and a load of tomatoes for pennies. If I recall correctly we just threw the veggies and tomatoes in batches into the blender, blended everything to a rough blend then spiked it with some whey and let it sit a couple of weeks.

We were living in eastern Washington and it was summer time in a mobile home. So, HOT. It was supposed to keep us in salsa for at least six months. It lasted about a month. Did it spoil? Not at all, it was the best salsa we'd ever eaten! I'd highly recommend and maybe you won't need it to keep so long!

HV

From: (Anonymous)

When I am fortunate enough to get a windfall like that, I share a lot with famiily and friends or trade for other things I need.
It builds community and the family doesn't say "tomatoes again?" quite so often!

From: (Anonymous)

Wow. The wealth of suggestions is just amazing!

I have yet to try it myself, but you can use a double-boiler to cook down tomato sauce into tomato paste.

With tomato paste, you can make your own homemade tomato ketchup or chili sauce.

Nourishing Traditions has lacto-fermented recipes for salsa, ketchup and tomato pepper relish, along with general information about the lacto-fermentation process.

Caldathras

From: (Anonymous)

There are many recipes online for fermented salsa. Just type in fermented salsa recipes and you’ll get lots of choices. Easier than trying to describe it here. Good luck!

From: (Anonymous)

Caucasain Mountain Spinach, Hablitzia tamnoides? It is an edible vining perennial from Central Asia, for cold climates. I just received seeds from Fedco.

Anything anyone can tell me about germination, growth and so on?

I also would be grateful to know if any of these three root crops, sconzera, skirret or salsify are possible in heavy soils. I have grown good tasting carrots here, but they don't get very big.

Speaking of carrots, I can highly recommend the yellow, blunt tipped Uzbeck carrot being offered by Baker Creek. Both the carrot and it's greens have excellent flavor. Mary Bennett

From: (Anonymous)

I too, have gotten Hablitzia seeds this year (must be the new big thing) but from a different source.

Their recommendation was to make a cold stratification (4C/40F) for about 1 month and they will start to sprout at that temperature. Other info was that the first year growth is quite slow and that they require a certain amount of shade to grow well.

From:

isaac_hill

Hablitzia is not too hard to germinate, they did alright when I started them from seed some years ago with a month and a half of cold stratification. Personally though, I get better yields from their annual self-seeding relatives like amaranth and lambsquarters. Also, I've found better luck with native perennial vegetables in my corner of the North East, like Sochan (Rudbeckia lacianata), pokeweed (just boil and throw away water before eating) and milkweed (you can eat at three stages, and you just have to cook them.) Nettles are another wonderful perennial vegetable, and giant chickweed is not so bad either, and edible raw.

I haven't tried much with sconzera, skirret, or normal salsify. The thing is, yes they're perennial, but if you dig up the roots, it's not really different than an annual like carrot or parsnip, so why not just grow carrots or parsnip? Yellow salsify grows as a weed around here and I usually just much the stems/buds as the roots are pretty small. Best perennial root crops I've found for my area are Jerusalem artichoke, groundnut (apios americana) and Chinese mountain yam (though these tubers are very hard to dig up, the aerial tubers are easy, but small), these are all tubers. If carrots are small, the other root crops will be small, best to amend with lots of compost. Jerusalem artichokes don't do too badly in clay soil, though their high inulin roots can be hard on some folks digestion if they're not fermented first.

From: (Anonymous)

If I may, ONLY young shoots of pokeweed should be eaten, while the stem is still small and soft. Later, the leaves will be too toxic for boil-and-dump to make them safe.

From: (Anonymous)

Jerusalem are-to-chokes, IMHO, are not edible. Yuck. I manage fairly well with carrots, turnips and rutabagas, so should probably stick with what has worked. I may attempt sugar beets, for the syrup. Mary Bennett

From:

milkyway1

Hi Mary,

I've yet to grow Caucasian Spinach, but have consulted Stephen Barstow's book "Around the World in 80 Plants" for you.

(An excellent book if you're interested in edible plants, btw. Highly recommended, just like the books by Martin Crawford! I'm not sure about Martin Crawford, but I seem to remember Stephen Barstow also has some videos online.)

Stephen says it's easiest grown from seed, but needs cold to germinate:

Either sow outside for the winter and it'll germinate in spring (probably a bit late for that now), or sow in a pot, water, and put the pot in the fridge in a plastic bag, to avoid the earth drying out. It will start germinating after 2-3 weeks, at which point you can take the pot out of the fridge and put it into a cool room.

The seeds should only be just covered (1-2 mm).

Apparently, the resulting plants grow slowly the first year, but can reach their full height in the second year.

An alternative for propagation is by division in autumn. Each new plant needs one or more buds/shoots and at least a sliver of the root crown in this case.

The plant is shadow-tolerant, but will grow earlier in somewhat sunny places. Not too sunny and hot, though (he says it's originally a forest plant, i.e. needs moist earth even in summer, but not waterlogged in winter, and would easily dry out in full, hot South sun in summer).

According to him, the plants grow 2-3 meters tall. As climbers, they need something to climb up, obviously. Their main growth seems to be rather early in the year (as would make sense for climbers in woodland - reach the light before the tree canopy thickens).

Caucasian spinach is somewhat related to Swiss chard, spinach and Good King Henry. (with the usual caveats, i.e. cook it if you eat large quantities, etc).

Barstow is particularly fond of the young shoots very early in the year when not much else grows, and says to prepare them like asparagus. With grown plants, he cuts the shoots up to 2 or 3 times max, and then lets the plant grow out and recover. Crawford (in "How to Grow Perennial Vegetables") says both the shoots and the leaves are edible. (Other than that, he has pretty much the same info about growing etc.)

Oh, and the plant seems to be rather cold-hardy, at least in the variety which has been grown in Northern Europe for a long time now. Crawford says hardiness zone 4; Barstow grows it high up in Norway, albeit at sea level.

Finally, I'm not sure about salsify and skirret, but scorzonera has long, thin roots which snap easily. I tried in our heavy clay soil and the result was less than satisfying - most of them snapped during harvest and I gave up at some point. (I think there is a good reason some root crops are commercially grown in sandy soil, alas. ;-( )

You could grow them for their leaves, though, and just leave the roots alone... ;-)

I hope this helps! :-)

Milkyway

From: (Anonymous)

I recently got fed up with the wastepaper basket overflowing with tissues and bought some cloth handkerchiefs. I have a centrally located laundry, so I just keep the stack of them right next to the washing machine and roll them up as they do their duty to get the most out of each wash. When I fully roll one up, in the hamper it goes.

So far the reduction in paper waste has been astounding. I didn't realize how many tissues I went through, and fewer waste tissues means I use fewer trash bags to cart them out. I'm less sure about the laundry cost, but the cloth tissues haven't noticeably affected the number of loads of laundry I do, so I'm counting it as a plus for now. A package of 12 can be as expensive up front as an entire value pack of tissue boxes, so I'm thinking if I can get a year's worth of use out of them it will have been at least cost-neutral. They've held up ok for the first month, but I don't use heavy fabrics like denim or heavy buttons that could beat up the tissues in the washing machine.

So far I'm not missing any of the lotions or additives to the nice paper tissues I used to use - nose is still perfectly happy with plain cloth. But if you have the option when you buy, do make sure to feel the cloth and get a nice soft fabric.

From:

slclaire

I use cotton bandannas for the same purpose, and they have lasted for many years being washed in the same load as blue jeans and other colored clothes (the bandannas themselves are blue).

From: (Anonymous)

With a major fabric-store chain having bankruptcy liquidation sales these days, I bought two yards of unbleached muslin to cut and hem into handkerchiefs. At 18" square for each, two yards by 36" would produce 8 handkerchiefs, and give me an excuse to run the monogramming attachment for my sewing machine. $2/yard, turns out way cheaper than 9 for $14 at a local retail chain.

Lathechuck

From: (Anonymous)

I also use mostly handkerchiefs and rarely buy Kleenex. Along the same lines, I have a stack of folded clean rags in my kitchen that I use for most jobs formerly done with paper towels. Many are cut out of old T-shirts, but those cut from defunct waffle-weave long underwear are the best. It takes me months to use a roll of paper towels now (mostly for wiping out grease from frying pans and cleaning up things that used to be inside a cat).

From: (Anonymous)

For at least thirty years I've been cutting up old soft t-shirts, sometimes old soft sheets or flannel pjs - really any piece of cloth that is too far gone to mend and is SOFT. Obviously cut off all seams etc and aim for 8 by 8 or 10 by 10ish squares. Usually I wash them with towels. I hang them out or dry by wood stove but have never noticed anything remaining on them - they are clean.
Big bonus: I don't have to blow my nose and don't seem to have "allergies" like I use to when younger. I have a theory that store-bought tissues have a lot of tiny dust particles and chemicals that irritate the nasal passages. If I do have to use one I really notice it that I feel like it irritates me and I need to blow my nose more. Which is very good for tissue-makers.....
This is an easy fix, good for the finances and for the environment. You might get some weird looks in public (funny how quickly we've forgotten that everyone used to use hankies) but I'm a farmer and not knocking against people all day.
Saves money and is a good use for off casts and remnants.

From: (Anonymous)

In East Asia Westerners' use of hankies is considered disgusting (you are putting a snot-laden cloth back in your pocket to tote around and re-use, rather than throwing it away). I have warded off feelings of embarrassment at using a hankie around Chinese people with the thought that in their history, before paper tissues were available, the solution for most was to snot-rocket onto the street. Bleah.

From:

baconrolypoly

Do you wash them all together or put them in with other laundry? There's no polite way to ask, but if they go in with the general wash doesn't some snot spread to other things? I remember this being an issue when I first left home and was responsible for doing all my own laundry, there would be unpleasant smears on clothes. Eventually I took a tip from a friend's mum and all the hankies would be soaked in a bucket of water before washing so they came out cleaner.

From: (Anonymous)

Snot's water soluble so it should come out in a good wash. I (not the original commenter) do two kinds of wash. Clothes that aren't visibly dirty get washed in cold (permanent press cycle if any are button-down shirts or nice pants). Filthy yard work pants, towels, rags, underwear and hankies get washed on hot (then the underwear gets put on a drying rack to spare the elastic). Since the hankies are not in with the good shirts, there isn't any risk of transfer.

I also do use kleenex if I've got one of those horrible-green-goo head colds.

From:

kayr

Can't say I have ever noticed smears on other clothing items that have been washed with used handkerchiefs. The only time I pre-soak handkerchiefs is if the user had a bloody nose.

From:

slclaire

I don't pre-soak the bandannas, but I do make sure I open them up fully before I put them in the washing machine so the water and detergent penetrate the whole bandanna. I haven't had any trouble with snot spread.

From: (Anonymous)

OP here. I've only been going for a month or so and I haven't noticed anything of that nature yet. That being said, I haven't, for instance, come down with any kind of sickness where excess mucus is a concern, so anything to be washed out has been on the lighter side and I believe easily dissolvable in water. I hadn't considered this issue, though, so I'll keep an eye out and see if it becomes a problem.

From:

baconrolypoly

I can only think that I had particularly sticky snot in those days, or maybe I just wasn't that good at doing laundry.

From: (Anonymous)

Mine have always just been thrown into regular laundry, and anyone else I know. It should wash out. If your clothes arent getting clean, including hankies, it is an issue with the SOm washing machine, being wadded up, detergent or something. SOme modern newer front loaders and low water top loaders just dont wash anything well, some front loaders do alright. Most things at my house are washed on cold right now, some loads super dirty might get warm. Hankes go with whatever load I am doing

If all the stuff is washed off, there will be no germs once they dry as there would be no "medium" for the germs to be growing in. If they are clean and dry, they will not be spreading germs. I just dry on a wooden drying rack inside the house

From: (Anonymous)

This made me think that exposure to sunlight during the drying process might also help with regards to any germ concerns.

Caldathras

From: (Anonymous)

Sure, but I dont dry in the sun. Just not being wet anymore means there is nothing for those germs, that grow in a moist environment, so they die. The hankies just need to dry realy ( but we clean them so they are more soft and comfortable and absorbent again)

For this same reason, I use a crocheted loose woven cloth to wash dishes. It is rinsed out after use, and it drys very quickly. Then there is no germs. Sponges stay moist and germs grow

Atmospheric River

From: (Anonymous)

JMG, I just ran across this article and i know
that you do have some ppl here that are interested
in writing.

i dont know where else to put this though so im just
sending it along so you can see it.

The Vanishing White Male Writer

https://www.compactmag.com/article/the-vanishing-white-male-writer/

i found it at naomi wolf's x account where she re-posted it:

https://x.com/matthewschmitz/status/1903067341514064339#m

i thought you might like to see it.

From: (Anonymous)

Would be a good topic for discussion on this months Open Post over at the ecosophia.net blog.

From: (Anonymous)

This morning, as I was buying organic rice from the bulk dispenser bins, I was reading labels. Jasmine? Basmati? Sushi? White? Brown? I noticed that the least expensive option was a white "rescue" rice offering. "What is rescue rice, and why is it cheaper?" When I read the fine print on the bin label, it said "whole and broken grains". I guess that means that the regular rice has only intact grains, so they all look pretty on your plate, while this product includes fragments. This implies that there's some part of the rice-processing machinery that breaks some of the grains, and some other part that sifts out the unbroken ones for top price. What was left, might have been diverted to other uses (e.g., pet food?) but if they'll rescue it, I'll eat it!

Lathechuck

PS: The AI at Google has no idea. It's just making shale up on this topic.

From:

baconrolypoly

It's called 'broken rice' in the UK. I don't come across it often but have use it and it's fine.

You used to be able to get bags of broken biscuits too. One of my dad's patients worked in a biscuit factory and sometimes she'd give him a big bag full which was a huge treat for us as kids.

From: (Anonymous)

LOL. Not many kids are going to care that the biscuits are broken. I never did!

Caldathras

From: (Anonymous)

Your rescue rice might work well for rice porridge. The broken grains would absorb liquid more easily than the pretty rice. Save the fancy rice for company, maybe? Mary Bennett

From: (Anonymous)

Hi,
You may not like Jerusalem artichokes but rabbits and pigs love them. Farmers used to plant fields of JA and then let the pigs forage in it. They plowed and fertilized the area at the same time.
Maxine

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Page Summary

degringolade - Books and the Evil River
(Anonymous) - Request for tips on preaerving tomatos
(Anonymous) - Might anyone here ever have grown
(Anonymous) - Reduce Trash with Cloth Handkerchiefs
baconrolypoly - (no subject)
(Anonymous) - was not sure where to post this
(Anonymous) - "Rescue" rice
(Anonymous) - Jerusalem artichokes

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