Frugal Friday

[ecosophia]

Welcome back to Frugal Friday! This is a weekly forum post to encourage people to share tips on saving money, especially but not only by doing stuff yourself. A new post will be going up every Friday, and will remain active until the next one goes up. Contributions will be moderated, of course, and I have some simple rules to offer, which may change further as we proceed.

Rule #1:  this is a place for polite, friendly conversations about how to save money in difficult times. It's not a place to post news, views, rants, or emotional outbursts about the reasons why the times are difficult and saving money is necessary. Nor is it a place to use a money saving tip to smuggle in news, views, etc.  I have a delete button and I'm not afraid to use it.

Rule #2:  this is not a place for you to sell goods or services, period. Here again, I have a delete button and I'm not afraid to use it.

Rule #3:  please give your tip a heading that explains briefly what it's about.  Homemade Chicken Soup, Garden Containers, Cheap Attic Insulation, and Vinegar Cleans Windows are good examples of headings. That way people can find the things that are relevant for them. If you don't put a heading on your tip it will be deleted.

Rule #4: don't post anything that would amount to advocating criminal activity. Any such suggestions will not be put through.

With that said, have at it!

Comments

Changing Habits for Frugality not a Sacrifice

[(Anonymous)]

I just read this short essay by Charles Hugh Smith, https://www.oftwominds.com/blogjan25/power-behavior1-25.html, where he gives a short summary of he and his wife's frugal results from changing their habits.

- They use 15% of the per person water usage for their area, a savings of 85% ( household use, not including garden, but that is also low)

- Before adding solar, they used 35% of the electricity usage for their area. (180kWh/month, is 6kWh day, is 3kwh/day per person) Their biggest useage would likely be hot water heating, then electronics and refrigerator.

- He lowered his blood pressure, cholesterol and improved other health markers by behavior changes, lowering medical bills while having a nicer life.

The point he is making though is that they are not sacrificing anything in their lifestyle. They use so, so much less and still have a modern lifestyle of daily showers, a washing machine and refrigerator, computer/electronics(as he makes his living this way), they wash lots of dishes, cook and eat good food, they have good health.

"This raises significant questions about our economy, our runaway costs of living and our lifestyles. Healthcare consumes almost 20% of our nation's enormous GDP. How much could we reduce the burdens of cost and ill-health with very basic, nothing-fancy modifications of our behaviors? How much could we reduce our consumption of water and energy with very basic, nothing-fancy modifications of our behaviors?

This raises another question: why is any reduction in consumption posed in terms of unbearable sacrifice, when no sacrifices are necessary to consequentially reduce consumption? Behavioral modifications of the sort described above exact very little from us. Many require very little time and extra effort, and those that do demand time and effort--a daily walk and eating only real food prepared at home--have outsized positive effects that would be considered miraculous were they contained in a pill. "

When you make changes in habits, do you feel it is a sacrifice ? Do you have a favorite change in behavior that not only was not a sacrifice but gave you immense gain

Atmospheric River

Re: Changing Habits for Frugality not a Sacrifice

[(Anonymous)]

Frugal habits save money, but for me, it wasnt about money or what else I did with the money, it is that my expenses were lowered over time thru frugal behavior choices, at no sacrifice in middle class lifestyle, so then when I had an income hit, I was able to stay in my home and overall maintain my lifestyle. Compared to the average person in my income bracket in my area, I have less stress, a quieter, peaceful environment, it is roomy and warm, I have a car and hobbies and a garden, etc... The frugal habits are not a sacrifice, they provide a good built living environment, contribute to better health, and home grown fresh produce, nicer clothes and household goods, etc... so I see abundance, not sacrifice.

Atmospheric RIver

Re: Changing Habits for Frugality not a Sacrifice

[(Anonymous)]

When my partner and I began simplifying our lifestyle 14 years ago, inspired by a certain archdruid's exhortation to "collapse now and avoid the rush", we did not see what we were giving up as a sacrifice. Cable television, consumerism and debt were making us very unhappy. We downsized our living space from about 1200 sqft to 300 sqft and divested ourselves of most of the clutter we had collected to fill that excess space. We are not living a perfect subsistence lifestyle as of yet but we are much closer to the goal. The side-benefit of having more savings on hand -- for less total income -- by removing debt from our lives has actually been an immense pleasure. As you say, we see more abundance than we do sacrifice.

Those that ask about our lifestyle do still see it as a sacrifice. They only see what we gave up, not what we have gained. Being debt-free means less stress and a better work-life balance. I can only wish that more people could find their way to enjoying the benefits of a debt-free lifestyle ...

Re: Changing Habits for Frugality not a Sacrifice

[(Anonymous)]

>I can only wish that more people could find their way to enjoying the benefits of a debt-free lifestyle

Be very very careful what you wish for. As in understand the consequences of what you're wishing. You think this is a good thing you're wishing for. What if I told you that what you're wishing for is the whole economy to crater and all the banks to permanently fail?

For every person that isn't in debt someone else must go even deeper into debt. Take a moment to thank that poor person (tonight on Kitchen Nightmares). It's baked in the system, it's the rules of the game. The debt at the system level is unpayable and always increasing. Then again maybe that's what's going to happen all along anyway.

So, yeah, sure, I wish that more people were debt-free. Let's push that throttle all the way in. Let's do it.

Re: Changing Habits for Frugality not a Sacrifice

[teresa_from_hershey]

We're heading into a difficult future, no matter what.

Most people won't get ready. Or spend less. Or bulk up their savings. This is why so many cultures have those ant and grasshopper fables.

I don't believe thrift, self-denial, or rational behavior come naturally to most humans. If they did, everyone would have a savings account, eat right, exercise, and do all those other boring, unfun, uncool things that actually help you succeed in the long haul.

The only way to win is not to play.

If you don't want to cut back and discourage others to cut back now, when it's easy, then okay! You subsidize me at the grocery store. When more people take advantage of grocery store savings as times get harder, the grocery store makes its policies less liberal and I swiftly adapt.

Practice makes perfect. Practice now, when it's easy and you have safety nets.

Re: Changing Habits for Frugality not a Sacrifice

[ecosophia]

The banks are going to fail anyway. With global population peaking and a long decline in population ahead, real economic growth is over and sustained economic contraction will be the reality for several centuries. I wrote about that in a post on my blog early last year:

https://www.ecosophia.net/an-unfamiliar-world/

That means that debt-based economics are ending, and being in debt will increasingly be a disastrously bad decision, as it always is in periods of economic stability or contraction. (It's not that good of an idea in a period of slow growth, for that matter -- only the temporary boomtime of runaway growth driven by fossil fuels and massive population expansion makes it functional, for a while.) With that in mind, getting out of debt is crucial, and it really does make life much, much easier.

Re: Changing Habits for Frugality not a Sacrifice

[(Anonymous)]

To Teresa and JMG,

Thank you for your insightful comments.

Caldathras

Re: Changing Habits for Frugality not a Sacrifice

[(Anonymous)]

I can only hope you were being sarcastic. Otherwise, your first paragraph smacks very much of spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt. Economies survived for centuries without being so dependent on debt. If it has been done before, it can be done again.

In your second paragraph, you seem to be trying to make me feel responsible for someone else's choice to go into debt -- because I'm not carrying my fair share of the debt load. That argument is preposterous, if not disingenuous. I am not responsible for other people's choices.

This debt-dependant economic system is relatively young. Many, many rural individuals lived a subsistence lifestyle up until after WW2. It was seen as noble, honest way to make a living. Then, the western governments began a smear campaign to stigmatize the lifestyle of these self-sufficient people and make them believe that they should be ashamed of the way they lived. Industrialism needed Consumerism to thrive. To support the fallacious idea of unlimited growth, Consumerism needed a debt economy. A self-sufficient lifestyle was not compatible with either of these needs.

I feel no guilt for those caught up in the Industrial/Consumer/Debt system. But I will happily show them a different path if they are interested. What we once called the subsistence lifestyle, due to the stigma, we now call simplified living.

Re: Changing Habits for Frugality not a Sacrifice

[(Anonymous)]

To continue from the above comment, change comes slowly not instantaneously. As more people slowly move to a debt-free lifestyle, the economy will gradually adjust to accommodate the change. It will not create the disaster and catastrophe you are implying.

Caldathras

Re: Changing Habits for Frugality not a Sacrifice

[(Anonymous)]

Oops, forgot to sign my anonymous post about our debt-free lifestyle.

Caldathras

Re: Changing Habits for Frugality not a Sacrifice

[(Anonymous)]

Not to diminish Charles Hugh Smith's accomplishments -- they are certainly impressive against the societal averages of his region -- but the large differences in standards between regions and time periods really do surprise me.

When my partner and I lived in the city 15 years ago, we would still have found his water and energy consumption to seem exceptionally high. Time seems to have managed to increase the minimum consumption level for both resources.

We live off-grid now so we have little basis of comparison.

Caldathras

Re: Changing Habits for Frugality not a Sacrifice

[(Anonymous)]

Re: "Do you have a favorite change in behavior that not only was not a sacrifice but gave you immense gain"?

My answer: refusing to buy a new car every time my spouse got hooked by the ads and wanted to buy a new one. For him it was a sacrifice, for me, however, not at all-- and over decades, we've saved a ton of money by my dragging my heels on this issue.

My other answer: I chucked the TV.

Yet another answer: I got a dog.

UTC