Open (More or Less) Post on Covid 86

[ecosophia]

As we proceed through the second year of these open posts, it's pretty clear that the official narrative is cracking as the toll of deaths and injuries from the Covid vaccines rises steadily and the vaccines themselves demonstrate their total uselessness at preventing Covid infection or transmission. It's still important to keep watch over the mis-, mal- and nonfeasance of our self-proclaimed health gruppenfuehrers, and the disastrous results of the Covid mania, but I think it's also time to begin thinking about what might be possible as the existing medical industry reels under the impact of its own self-inflicted injuries. 

So it's time for another open post. The rules are the same as before: 

1. If you plan on parroting the party line of the medical industry and its paid shills, please go away. This is a place for people to talk openly, honestly, and freely about their concerns that the party line in question is dangerously flawed and that actions being pushed by the medical industry et al. are causing injury and death. It is not a place for you to dismiss those concerns. Anyone who wants to hear the official story and the arguments in favor of it can find those on hundreds of thousands of websites.

2. If you plan on insisting that the current situation is the result of a deliberate plot by some villainous group of people or other, please go away. There are tens of thousands of websites currently rehashing various conspiracy theories about the Covid-19 outbreak and the vaccines. This is not one of them. What we're exploring is the likelihood that what's going on is the product of the same arrogance, incompetence, and corruption that the medical industry and its tame politicians have displayed so abundantly in recent decades. That possibility deserves a space of its own for discussion, and that's what we're doing here. 
 
3. If you plan on using rent-a-troll derailing or disruption tactics, please go away. I'm quite familiar with the standard tactics used by troll farms to disrupt online forums, and am ready, willing, and able -- and in fact quite eager -- to ban people permanently for engaging in them here. Oh, and I also lurk on other Covid-19 vaccine skeptic blogs, so I'm likely to notice when the same posts are showing up on more than one venue. 

4. If you don't believe in treating people with common courtesy, please go away. I have, and enforce, a strict courtesy policy on my blogs and online forums, and this is no exception. The sort of schoolyard bullying that takes place on so many other internet forums will get you deleted and banned here. Also, please don't drag in current quarrels about sex, race, religions, etc. No, I don't care if you disagree with that: my journal, my rules. 

With that said, the floor is open for discussion.

Comments

field note

[(Anonymous)]

Just a quick observation from the field, and some reflections. In the English Midlands, yesterday, I was in a clinic, the kind that has a lot of practitioners such as physiotherapists renting treatment rooms and sharing the cost of a receptionist.

I chatted with someone who worked there as I was waiting for someone having treatment. The person was definitely in the white middle class bracket. I was interested to hear her view of current affairs. She was pro vaccination and lots of hygienic habits such as insisting on people using sanitising alcohol gels. From her perspective it was people like her who take things seriously and do the right thing, she mentioned getting vaccinated in this. No apparent doubt about safety or effectiveness although she had covid about six weeks ago, not badly and has recovered well. I also overheard her talking to someone else about whether enough people bother to do covid tests now they have to pay for these themselves. The problem from her perspective is ignorant people who don't do what they are supposed to. Also, she thinks complaining is good. She thinks you should let it all out, it does more harm to bottle it up.

So I am relating this because it felt like excellent food for meditation. I'm interested in how we can have a public conversation that is constructive and allows people to consider the problems and compile policies which might be helpful. I was interested hearing that the motivation is the uprightness, the sense of social responsibility. This is the motive that was hammered hardest around here during the vaxx push -- "get vaccinated to protect grandma!". It led me to wonder if that sense of responsibility could be a ground for unity. It might smart a bit and cause discomfort in such a conversation if I begin to admit that for me, being responsible means examining scientific and medical claims myself, and thinking about whether the marketing and advertising makes sense. That we have a responsibility to protect the vulnerable by taking action against fraudulent claims and irresponsible marketing. But that kind of line of reasoning at least has some solid ground in common with the person I spoke to yesterday, whose motivation is doing the right thing and taking responsibility in public health matters. There is a common place we could potentially begin a conversation from.

I suppose I am belatedly catching up with that handout that was going around in the vaxx push, it was for nurses to address 'hesitant' patients, a kind of 'if they say this, reply with this' briefing. I don't seem to have saved a copy, I don't know if someone else has one or can find it and link. In all of the examples listed, about ten maybe? There were replies to patients that picked up the motivation of the patient and supplied the line that was most likely to produce compliance with injection. I suppose these were produced by the marketing arm of the jab companies, or public health gurus. I was going to say produced by people with no sense of ethics but I think it's more than that. I think the public health gurus were acting on the surmise of the national defence people who were afraid that this was the doomsday virus and were desperate enough to believe anything might help. I think a lot of what happened as many commentators have already said was based on acting from the hymn sheet of previously rehearsed biological warfare drills. They were convincing because the commentators who were slightly informed were scared of what was happening and genuinely believed that the only hope was to get everyone vaccinated to increase chances of survival. I remember talking to a civil servant about my worries about the nudging stuff being used to engineer compliance and her response was that the state is always engineering choices and why not? But to me, I want that to be a matter of public discussion. In what circumstances do we really think it's appropriate to patronise and compel people? perhaps I just lack whatever it is that makes people politicians.

I want to encourage a culture of truth telling, accountability, and appropriate legal processes, amongst a political class who actually have some scientific education rather than being composed of all the ones who stopped studying science as soon as they could -- age sixteen in the main stream of British education. I think it's really unfortunate that in those decisions it wasn't considered that the claims of the pharmaceutical companies are highly unreliable and somehow the possible costs of the adverse effects of the jabs got completely forgotten about. But I think this probably fell into the blind spot of decades where the only people who suffer adverse consequences from routine medications become heretics and crazy people who have to be denigrated and ignored.

Amber Oracular Piglet

Re: field note

[thinking_turtle]

'if they say this, reply with this'

That's what I heard too. For example, if the patient responds to authority, say that it is medically necessary. If the patient responds to empathy, say it helps protect others. If the patient is vain, tell them they wouldn't want to lie in the hospital while others go on holiday. And so on.

I think the public health gurus were acting on the surmise of the national defence people who were afraid that this was the doomsday virus and were desperate enough to believe anything might help.

That kind of thinking was leading in The Netherlands. According to Open Government requests, the project organization created for Corona had the anti-terrorism coordinator on top. This could explain the military-like nature of the response.

Re: field note

[(Anonymous)]

Thank you so much for writing this Thinking Turtle. I only had my intuition that it looked like a biowarfare thing to go by and it's interesting to see some confirmation from what you linked to.

Re: field note

[(Anonymous)]

A handy all purpose reply to attempts to manipulate: Well, that's one way of seeing it. Then, hold eye contact with them for 3 seconds. If you want to scare them truly, hold eye contact for 5 seconds.

Re: field note

[(Anonymous)]

Another useful line of defense -

"Look, I understand that it's your job to push this (vaccine, drug, procedure, whatever) on me, but I don't want it and I'm not going to take it, no matter how much you try to pressure me. Now, are we done here?"

Either they will understand it's useless and back down, or they will continue to push.

If the latter, just continue to repeat variations of, "I understand it's your job to to push this on me, but I don't want it. How many times do I have to repeat myself?"

Don't engage with the substance of the arguments, it's not worth it and you will go around in circles.

If you're asked why you don't want something, repeat "Because I have decided that I do not want it. I understand that it's your job to push this on me and that you have your talking points, but I don't want it. Are we done now?"

If they say something like "Do you not want it because you think (whatever)?", just say "I have decided I don't want it. I am not required to give you a reason. Are we done now?"

If they say something like "Do you understand that the consequence of not doing this is X?" or "I'm going to have to put you down as refusing" just say, "I understand. Are we done now?"

Stay calm, maintain eye contact, and keep repeating those lines (or similar) until they give up.

Re: field note

[(Anonymous)]

A rebuttal book. Usually you see salesweasels with them pressuring people into buying things they don't want or need.

Yup, I guess that sums up the injectables, alright. Don't want them, don't need them.