Open (More or Less) Post on Covid 75
Jan. 10th, 2023 01:34 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ecosophia
As we proceed through the second year of these open posts, it's pretty clear that the official narrative is cracking as the toll of deaths and injuries from the Covid vaccines rises steadily and the vaccines themselves demonstrate their total uselessness at preventing Covid infection or transmission. It's still important to keep watch over the mis-, mal- and nonfeasance of our self-proclaimed health gruppenfuehrers, and the disastrous results of the Covid mania, but I think it's also time to begin thinking about what might be possible as the existing medical industry reels under the impact of its own self-inflicted injuries. So it's time for another open post. The rules are the same as before:
1. If you plan on parroting the party line of the medical industry and its paid shills, please go away. This is a place for people to talk openly, honestly, and freely about their concerns that the party line in question is dangerously flawed and that actions being pushed by the medical industry et al. are causing injury and death. It is not a place for you to dismiss those concerns. Anyone who wants to hear the official story and the arguments in favor of it can find those on hundreds of thousands of websites.
2. If you plan on insisting that the current situation is the result of a deliberate plot by some villainous group of people or other, please go away. There are tens of thousands of websites currently rehashing various conspiracy theories about the Covid-19 outbreak and the vaccines. This is not one of them. What we're exploring is the likelihood that what's going on is the product of the same arrogance, incompetence, and corruption that the medical industry and its tame politicians have displayed so abundantly in recent decades. That possibility deserves a space of its own for discussion, and that's what we're doing here.
3. If you plan on using rent-a-troll derailing or disruption tactics, please go away. I'm quite familiar with the standard tactics used by troll farms to disrupt online forums, and am ready, willing, and able -- and in fact quite eager -- to ban people permanently for engaging in them here. Oh, and I also lurk on other Covid-19 vaccine skeptic blogs, so I'm likely to notice when the same posts are showing up on more than one venue.
4. If you don't believe in treating people with common courtesy, please go away. I have, and enforce, a strict courtesy policy on my blogs and online forums, and this is no exception. The sort of schoolyard bullying that takes place on so many other internet forums will get you deleted and banned here. Also, please don't drag in current quarrels about sex, race, religious, etc. No, I don't care if you disagree with that: my journal, my rules.
With that said, the floor is open for discussion.
Re: Big Picture Questions
Date: 2023-01-13 09:31 am (UTC)I really do not know.
First there is the potential of JMG's hypothesis that either gods or demonic influence could be at play since things appear crazy in a 2+2=Petunia way.
But do either of those (gods/demons) fit the definition of conspiracy or are conspiracies a very limited human concept (i.e. the definition often includes something done by 'two or more people').
Then there is the idea from Sadhguru about something happening on higher planes and that manifesting down here.
And then there is this:
"There is a French book entitled L’Avenir De La Vie (“The Future of Life”) by Michel Salomon, who is a journalist and doctor back in 1981, he interviewed twenty scientists including seven Nobel Prize winners, and which thus relates his conversation with Jacques Attali, who at the time was the adviser to François Mitterrand."
Well, the book seems to exist but I do not have a copy so do not know if the interview below exists in it or is even real. Just because it is in a book does not make it so.
Of course, if this interview is accurate can it be a conspiracy since it is not a secret activity and is laying out an idea fair and square.
And yet to even copy this here risks falling foul of JMG's rule number 2... but to not do so means its veracity cannot be questioned, dismissed, or confirmed.
If you look at the Emily Oster's etc of the covid years, it is not a big step to go up a few levels and find another set of people who are sure, in their arrogance and hubris that they are 'the good people' too.
That they do not consider themselves 'villainous'
And the option does not exclude the possibility that a god or gods, demon or demons are working through humans. Or it could just be human stupidity/arrogance/hubris/insanity/greed etc - take your pick.
Anyway, here is the purported text to the interview:
“In the future it will be about finding a way to reduce the population. We will start with the old, because as soon as he is over 60-65 years of age, man lives longer than he produces and costs society dearly. Then the weak and then the useless who do nothing for society because there will be more and more of them, and especially finally the stupid ones.
Euthanasia targeting these groups; euthanasia will have to be an essential instrument of our future societies, in all cases. Of course, we cannot execute people or set up camps. We will get rid of it by making them believe it is for their own good. Too large a population, and for the most part unnecessary, is something economically too expensive.
Socially, it is also much better for the human machine to come to a screeching halt rather than gradually deteriorating. We won’t be able to give intelligence tests to millions and millions of people, you can imagine!
We will find something or cause it, a pandemic that targets certain people, a real economic crisis or not, a virus that will affect the old or the big, it doesn’t matter, the weak will succumb to it, the fearful and the stupid will believe it and ask to be treated.
We will have taken care to have planned the treatment, a treatment that will be the solution. The selection of idiots will thus be done by themselves: they will go to the slaughterhouse on their own. “
“The future of life” – Jacques Attali, 1981, interview with Michel Salomon.
https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/world-news/tyranny/the-stupid-will-believe-it-and-ask-to-be-treated-pandemic-to-depopulate-1981/
Hard to believe that someone would say the quiet part out loud, but maybe that has to part of the deal - i.e. if a demon wants something from a human, they have to get the human to consent. But the gods? I'd guess not so much... humans like ants to greater beings?
[earthworm]
Re: Big Picture Questions
Date: 2023-01-13 06:10 pm (UTC)https://archive.org/details/futurelife00salo/mode/2up
The relevant interview starts on page 177. I would recommend taking screenshots of the pages of interest to examine at leisure and returning the book as quickly as possible for other readers to view.
Attali says at one point, and keep in mind this was circa 1980, "In studying the general economic problems of Western society, I found out that health costs are among the main factors in the economic crisis." Little did he know how artfully the metaphorical can could be kicked down the road into 2023! Of course, there has been little political will to fix the underlying problems since so many benefited from the global system of exploitation. Medicine, such as it is, has become both exploitation and a triage for the harms inflicted by the rest of the system of exploitation upon the planet and its inhabitants.
HOWEVER, the Armstrong Economics web page appears to misrepresent the actual interview as contained within the book. Attali's final words are:
"The appearance on the market of implements for medical self-monitoring will create a preventive-medicine mentality. People will adapt to conformity to the norm. Preventive measures will not have to be forcibly imposed; people will embrace them to achieve social acceptance. But we must not lose sight of the fact that the most important thing is not technological progress but the highest form of commerce among men, represented by culture. The shape society takes in the future will be a function of our capacity to master technological progress. Will we dominate it, or be dominated by it? That's the question."
Actually reading the interview calls into question the motive of the article on Armstrong Economics website and what their agenda really is. Why are they fabricating a narrative, and who is their target audience?
Re: Big Picture Questions
Date: 2023-01-13 08:16 pm (UTC)Yep, this looks like a pretty serious misquote. Attali does make some vague comments in favour of euthanasia, but that's about it.
I don't think Martin Armstrong or his team are responsible for it, because I've seen it floating around the internet for a little while. Armstrong's forecasts are worth paying attention to, but he has blind spots just like we all do.
There does seem to be a rather unhealthy interest in eugenics and population reduction amongst the hyper-wealthy, such as the Rockefellers, Gateses, etc. James Corbett has some good documentaries on this.
I do suspect this may be at least somewhat related to the push to jab billions of people with a provably dangerous experimental serum.
The thing that prevents me from going too far down that particular line is the fact that Israel went down the vaxx-mandate route. Demographically, this is just insane - they have an antagonistic relationship with a number of highly fertile and relatively unvaccinated nations residing within, partially within (West Bank and Gaza), and outside their borders (most of the Arabic world), so jabbing their own people could very plausibly lead to existential annihilation within a century or so. Mind boggling. My tin-foil hat was officially broken in 2021...
Re: Big Picture Questions
Date: 2023-01-14 04:55 am (UTC)"A new criterion of life expectancy then appears: that of the value of a health care system, which is not a function of the increase in life expectancy but of the number of years without illness and particularly without hospitalisation. Indeed, from the point of view of society, it is much better for the human machine [i.e., body] to come to an abrupt halt than for it to deteriorate gradually."
Contrast those words to the ones found in the Armstrong article (quoted in one of the previous comments). Also note the fact that today's so-called health care for the elderly is actually nothing like what Attali considered ideal. If Armstrong valued their credibility, they'd post an apology and the actual relevant bits of text from the interview at the top of their article page. There's a lesson in this, and it is that one should question everything. If there are no links to sources, be extra skeptical.
I have watched James Corbett, and I agree with your points. In fact, I recall one video in which Corbett made a point about using archive dot org to look up the public policy books that he himself gets much of his information from. There is enough factual material available that spells out agendas as plain as day without going through the effort of making things up and lying about what other's have actually said, as Armstrong did. Unless, of course, the goal is to trip up sloppy 'researchers' in a way that feeds the "conspiracy theory" narrative. A little falsehood destroys a lot of truth...
Re: Big Picture Questions
Date: 2023-01-14 07:14 pm (UTC)Re: Big Picture Questions
Date: 2023-01-13 11:18 pm (UTC)The Salomon book is for real, though hard to find (second-hand prices start above $1500), and it does contain an interview with Attali. A Spanish translation is available for $125. The English translation (Future Life), though I don’t see it on bookfinder.com, is in the Internet Archive.
From looking at it there, I believe the most startling quotes provided above are not authentic. Some of the sentences taken from Armstrong’s site are in the book, but the ones which would make today’s readers think of Covid and the mRNA vaccines are *not* present in the text of the interview. I think this one of those vaticinia ex eventu that turn up readily on the Internet. But I can’t be sure without checking the original French — conceivably, an editor “toned down” the translation.
The Attali interview — minus what I judge to be Covid-inspired embellishments — is worth reading. He values freedom, and says a lot about how the medical profession gets corrupted. To make clear where his sympathies and values lie, he says, “I believe the world we are building will be so frightful that it will mean the death of humankind. So we have to be prepared to resist it […] the best way to do so is to understand and engage in the battle in order to avoid the worst . . .”
Gray Hat
Re: Big Picture Questions
Date: 2023-01-14 03:31 pm (UTC)Absolutely fascinating.
Sometimes I think the universe is increasing the craziness as a sort of shock therapy - seeing if and what might jolt people to see things as they actually are rather than what we might like to think they are. As though the universe is asking 'which way you gonna go? alongwith a background chorus of 'be careful or you'll end up where you're heading!'
With the internewt [sic] capable of being re-written on the fly, I know folks rely on things like archive sites to get old snapshots of web pages etc; and the twitter files seem to reveal a little of the narrative handling that goes on too, but, if this is what is meant by 'a post truth world' where trying to sift wheat from chaff becomes an epic timesink and maybe an exercise in futility, one has to wonder 'where is time usefully spent?'
And how long before the archives get re-written to reflect the latest narrative...
JMG's blogs are rare islands in choppy seas - and it amuses me no end that a place where people can discuss the hypothesis of demonic influence in human affairs is one of the few places of sanity online.
IIRC the first internet connected phone came out around 2007 - just over 15yrs later the world is a very different place with many people having cemented that additional interface between them and the world - so an internet with a potentially demonic vibe becomes the primary source, filter and amplifier for people as it sucks in the energy of attention (says the guy typing a response to an internet forum)... gah - at the same time it all feels part of big dance with thrust blocks aplenty if one can work out how to recognise and make use of them.
All the censorship of alternate and opposing viewpoints on covid seems like just one aspect of an increasingly fragile and unsustainable reality dysfunction - and as has been noted often, if something is unsustainable, it will at some point stop. The sheer volume and level of distortion is quite the spectacle.
I did consider sending a message to the armstrong site asking about that text, but figured it would serve little point at this stage of the game, and that a more productive use of time would be to go outside, chop some wood and feed the resident robins - this year they got together early in December. Over Christmas I spent a lot of time wiffling about online and this last 10 days working in woodland - the difference in being in the world rather than interfacing through a distorting and manipulative filter and attention magnet is striking.
[earthworm]
Re: Big Picture Questions
Date: 2023-01-15 08:55 pm (UTC)As we've witnessed in the West, denying the possibility of malign spiritual influences gradually morphed into a denial of any spiritual influences whatsoever. That's when a great philosopher, cracking under the incomprehensible stresses thus created, declared his beloved God to be dead. With all the gods and demons banished into our impossibly overstuffed Shadows, sanity isn't much of a possibility for modern materialists.
Once no actual divinites are allowed to be contemplated, man then appears to be the apotheosis of all of existence's strivings. Inside our puny blinkered minds, man ends up replacing both gods and devils. We then attempt to live up to the impossible ideal we’ve set for ourselves by forcing all of our limiting mundane attributes into our Shadows as well. By imagining ourselves to be divinities, we have predictably made ourselves truly insane.
Rediscovering the reality of influences inconceivably greater than us is the way out of that insanity. Unpacking our Shadows is never easy, but always worth the effort, and always considerably less effort than desperately trying to keep them continually policed. Human Shadows are just way too small to effectively contain even the tiniest of divinites... let alone all of them.
— Christophe
Re: Big Picture Questions
Date: 2023-01-16 11:31 am (UTC)The polarities of potentials - the illusion of human as pinnacle suffers, perhaps, from a very fundamental error - that it is not a question of binaries (I am this [good] or I am that [bad]) but that humans contain the seeds of potentials - and from some of the subjects covered on JMG's blogs, the idea of laying down tracks in space through practices is somewhat like setting course and navigating in a particular direction.
Effectively that humans have a choice in how to navigate and two of the directions include, for arguments sake, an upward spiral and a downward spiral.
One spiral direction is for consciousness to 'evolve/develop' and another way is for it to devolve/degrade.
And to simplify even further, choose the way of the gods or the way of the demons.
That the potentials are there all the time ebbing and flowing, but the materialist mindset has conveniently distorted the view of human relationship with the cosmos, and that denying the possibility that we are only tiny in a vast,vast existence has just led to a positive feedback loop into increasing hubris and stupidity.
"Rediscovering the reality of influences inconceivably greater than us is the way out of that insanity."
Yeah - but I am by no means convinced that what currently passes for human [western] civ has the cahones or remnants of enough self-awareness to manage it.
Funnily I have seen it said that the current business between Russia and the 'West' is merely a reflection of the rebalancing that is coming down the pike.
Likely it will be a self correcting problem and humans will get an object lesson that not only do we not run the cosmos, the solar system or even this little planet, and that many souls, having chosen a particular conceit of our place in the world and the downward spiral that results from that, the wake up call will likely be harsh and extreme and those who don't 'open' the minds and hearts will likely get carried off by one of those passing comets that carries failed experiments off to the universe's energy recycling nodes.
Seems like a Great Reset is in progress... and I don't mean the one with the european bloke in the sci fi suit. ;)
Same as ever I guess - but maybe while a time of great trouble, also a time of great potential.
Everyone gets to exit from this realm, but what a wild ride this episode is turning into! :)
[earthworm]