Open (More or Less) Post on Covid 24
Jan. 18th, 2022 12:48 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ecosophia
The semi-open posts I've hosted here on the Covid-19 narrative, the inadequately tested experimental drugs for it, and the whole cascading mess surrounding them have continued to field a very high number of comments, so I'm opening yet another space for discussion. The rules are the same as before: 1. If you plan on parroting the party line of the medical industry and its paid shills, please go away. This is a place for people to talk openly, honestly, and freely about their concerns that the party line in question is dangerously flawed and that actions being pushed by the medical industry et al. are causing injury and death. It is not a place for you to dismiss those concerns. Anyone who wants to hear the official story and the arguments in favor of it can find those on hundreds of thousands of websites.
2. If you plan on insisting that the current situation is the result of a deliberate plot by some villainous group of people or other, please go away. There are tens of thousands of websites currently rehashing various conspiracy theories about the Covid-19 outbreak and the vaccines. This is not one of them. What we're exploring is the likelihood that what's going on is the product of the same arrogance, incompetence, and corruption that the medical industry and its tame politicians have displayed so abundantly in recent decades. That possibility deserves a space of its own for discussion, and that's what we're doing here.
3. If you plan on using rent-a-troll derailing or disruption tactics, please go away. I'm quite familiar with the standard tactics used by troll farms to disrupt online forums, and am ready, willing, and able -- and in fact quite eager -- to ban people permanently for engaging in them here. Oh, and I also lurk on other Covid-19 vaccine skeptic blogs, so I'm likely to notice when the same posts are showing up on more than one venue.
4. If you don't believe in treating people with common courtesy, please go away. I have, and enforce, a strict courtesy policy on my blogs and online forums, and this is no exception. The sort of schoolyard bullying that takes place on so many other internet forums will get you deleted and banned here. No, I don't care if you disagree with that: my journal, my rules.
With that said, as more and more vaccinated people call in sick with the disease the vaccine was supposed to keep them from getting, and the euphemism "died suddenly" sounds like a repeated drumbeat in the media, the floor is open for discussion.
Red vs. Blue
Date: 2022-01-18 07:38 pm (UTC)Weird.
My county is a red county. I go to a few blue counties which are more densely populated and check their death rates. They show half or quarter of the deaths this year compared to last year this time.
Weird again.
Why are people in red counties more likely to die from covid right now? Or is it the case that coroners in blue counties don't list covid as the primary cause while those in red counties are listing covid more frequently?
I smell politics afoot.
Re: Red vs. Blue
Date: 2022-01-19 01:48 am (UTC)Now, before y'all lynch me. One would expect these sort of binaries would not make it into our fine fellowship's chats.
In the Faust stories, Mephistopheles does not fail to deliver the promised goods, does he? But the not-so-good doctor fails to realize that the price shall not be dodged, and that it shall be extremely expensive. I'd recommend to check excess mortality rates, if you have access to them.
Also, contrary to the hyperbole prevalent here, people who received said treatment are not *falling* *like* flies*. There are a number of cases, more than what everyone has come to expect from modern medical treatment, but still a small minority. But we do not know how far into the future will the price will remain accruing interests (unlike the viral disease which, as usual, is self limiting in each host).
Re: Red vs. Blue
Date: 2022-01-19 03:36 am (UTC)The vaccines do seem to prevent severe outcomes from Covid-19, but only temporarily. So at each junction people have the option to walk away, but if these vaccines have the common coronavirus vaccine side effect of ADE, by accepting a much higher risk of severe disease from Covid, possibly for the remainder of their life.
Re: Red vs. Blue
Date: 2022-01-19 05:01 am (UTC)This wouldn't be the first time we've seen effects from a disease or action develop years after the immediate event (or start of said event). Measles starts a three year period where the body RELEARNS how to defend itself from diseases, smoking and drinking at a steady pace can have effects decades after the habit starts, and starvation can lead to obesity TWO GENERATIONS afterwards (with no effects before the second generation develops). The difference here being that, instead of the disease itself causing the long-term issue (and don't be surprised if some of that happens as well) there's issues from the mRNA vaccine that only further vaccination can keep at bay.
– Donald Hargraves
And, as of right now, I'm not sure we know what those issues are. WE know about the more immediate issues with the vaccine (brain fog, deviant clotting actions – both of which are shared with the virus), what we don't know is what the mRNA viruses they injected us with do over time.
Re: Red vs. Blue
Date: 2022-01-19 04:04 am (UTC)Where countries had high excess mortality, they appears to be dropping back into the single digits - still higher than normal, but I don't see a signature for a lot of vaccine induced death here. On this I'm guided by the Israel situation - one of the first countries to achieve a high vaccination rate, and the first to engage in at least two rounds of boosters. If there is to be widespread vaccine induced death, it isn't showing yet.
Now, I get that there are now different realities, and I don't want to judge from one reality to another. So, the expected arguments against what I've put up would probably include:
*Vaccine induced death and sickness are different matters entirely, and the vaccine induced sickness (less than death) won't appear in the mortality data.
* It's still too early for this stuff to appear (particularly for New Zealand)
* The data isn't being recorded, or fudged
* Different batches of the vaccine produced different results
* Countries and regions literally have different outcomes - I'm entirely open to the idea that the US could be experiencing this Covid business differently to other places in the world.
Re: Red vs. Blue
Date: 2022-01-19 04:02 pm (UTC)Is it possible we're just seeing deaths of the vulnerable "pulled forward"? E.g., lots of old and/or sick people who were likely going to die in the next few years died a bit sooner, due to some combination of the virus, vax side effects, lockdown isolation, and lack of access to routine healthcare? And as time moves on, these people who would have been dying in years 2 or 3 have already died "early" in year 1 (during first waves of virus, harshest lockdown period, vax rollout), so death rates in years 2 and 3 are a bit lower because the heard was "pre-culled" of some of the most fragile/susceptible in the first year - if that makes sense?
Not sure if the data support that, I'm just throwing it out there.
Re: Red vs. Blue
Date: 2022-01-19 09:50 pm (UTC)Re: Red vs. Blue
Date: 2022-01-20 03:13 am (UTC)- p coyle
/s
Re: Red vs. Blue
Date: 2022-01-20 03:40 pm (UTC)Speaking from the Mexican case. During the worst of the first wave (Summer of 2020) there were a few weeks when excess mortality exceeded expected mortality by about one third. In an hypothetical town where 5 deaths would have been expected, 2 people died of covid and another 10 died of "unrelated" causes. These were not people that were hanging to life with their fingernails; with proper care I would have expected them to live another solid decade!
I have long pondered what is the meaning of those figures, and how they contradict with the narrative prevalent at the Archdruid's online forums. Could it be that the Mexican government is virtue signaling (aka inflating statistics) like mad? With AMLO at the helm it seems most unlikely. Actually I think most of you would very much prefer our policies than those of your own countries.
Part of the explanation is that the Mexican people is very unhealthy, with high rates of obesity, diabetes, hypertension, etc. However, in that sense we are America's ugly cousin: we are not very far behind our northern neighbors.
The difference, I have come to believe, is that our medical system suffered from decades of mismanagement and neglect. With the regime change in 2018 came budget cuts that were meant to fix those problems but put the system under further stress. Then the pandemic hit us with our virtual pants down and the meager resources that were keeping a large number of sick people on their feet were redirected towards the crisis of the day. Disaster ensued.
The cruel lesson of the Long Descent is that I (we?) knew all too well this was coming, but failed to grasp the implications and their... vastness??? It is easy to say "they just died a bit sooner", but it is hard to say good bye to people who were expected to live productive lives for another 15 years and then retire.
Re: Red vs. Blue
Date: 2022-01-19 09:45 pm (UTC)It's still early in the game for the long term effects of the Vac and interactions between the Vac and the virus, especially for NZ, so we'll just have to wait and see.
Re: Red vs. Blue
Date: 2022-01-20 01:24 am (UTC)I was going to use the Australian excess death stats to answer that one in part, as they have had substantial Covid outbreaks, at a lower level of vaccination. Their excess death rate has bumped along largely lower than expected, with a couple of minor spikes. However, I can't get up to date data, as their latest mortality stats are from October 2021. They are in the middle of a severe Omicron outbreak now, but from what I can see, the death rates aren't skyrocketing. Sickness is. I see Australia as about six to nine months ahead of NZ.
The increased rate of vaccine injury theory for those who have had Covid before makes a lot of sense.
NZ will find out once Omicron breaks out, which could be any day now, particularly if people get booster shots after infection. I don't honestly know what way people will go, for now, trust in the government on Covid is very high - there are loud voices of dissent, but the numbers are tiny. People may think, I've had Covid now, don't need another vaccine, or they might say, that was bad, I'll start getting it the way I get my annual flu shot, and then the vaccine induced sickness theory can be tested.
Re: Red vs. Blue
Date: 2022-01-20 04:58 am (UTC)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVxmAIKjYM4
Re: Red vs. Blue
Date: 2022-01-20 07:22 am (UTC)For the record, I had an adverse reaction and subsequent blood tests showed heightened blood clotting risk. I have had plenty of blood tests in recent years looking for cardio-thoracic issues (for another reason) and they never showed up anything, which suggests to me that it was caused by the vax.
Re: Red vs. Blue
Date: 2022-01-20 04:05 am (UTC)1. most people only got their second jab in December at the earliest - so probably too early for major impacts from the vax and the population is such that the percentages will still result in very low numbers which are easy to shrug off as within the margin of error (looking at the official stats on adverse effects this is exactly what they are saying - deaths and major issues are considered to be within the statistical norms)
2. the hard border controls have severely limited entry of the virus (and the controls started early enough that most NZers have not been infected)
3. the population has a comparatively low level of comorbidities compared to some other western nations (not naming names)
4. population density is very low - always a bonus in epidemics (from what I've read, the issues in Australia seem to be concentrated in denser urban centres)
5. NZ media no longer exists as it once did and hasn't for some time - the death of newspaper advertising has meant they are now reliant on the government funding them - which also means I wouldn't trust the claims that the government's policies have widespread backing
6. vax for young males has not really started yet - and they seem to be the most at-risk from the vax
Note: my parents claim nobody they know have had adverse effects from the vax, so they think it is perfectly safe, but at least three work colleagues of mine have (averaging a week off work each) - when I told my parents that, my mother just repeated how they hadn't know of anyone like a mantra
Re: Red vs. Blue
Date: 2022-01-19 11:52 pm (UTC)And this is about as red a county as you get. Any redder and you'd be on Mars.
Re: Red vs. Blue
Date: 2022-01-20 04:48 am (UTC)Re: Red vs. Blue
Date: 2022-01-20 03:06 pm (UTC)Here in Mexico, people will gladly speak about the side effects of the vaccine, at least when you are talking among equals. We are also behind the US in terms of both population coverage and in terms of boosters (we just began this year with the 1st booster/3rd dose, for senior citizens over 60 only). Our most of our youths remained vax-free well into the Autumn too (due to availability, mostly); which makes me think we are yet to grasp what will be the dimension of the backslash.