Open (More or Less) Post on Covid 5
Sep. 7th, 2021 12:14 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ecosophia
The semi-open posts I've hosted here on the Covid-19 narrative, the inadequately tested experimental drugs for it, and the whole cascading mess surrounding them have continued to field a huge number of comments, so I'm opening another space for discussion. The rules are the same as before: 1. If you plan on parroting the party line of the medical industry and its paid shills, please go away. This is a place for people to talk openly, honestly, and freely about their concerns that the party line in question is dangerously flawed and that actions being pushed by the medical industry et al. are causing injury and death. It is not a place for you to dismiss those concerns. Anyone who wants to hear the official story and the arguments in favor of it can find those on hundreds of thousands of websites.
2. If you plan on insisting that the current situation is the result of a deliberate plot by some villainous group of people or other, please go away. There are tens of thousands of websites currently rehashing various conspiracy theories about the Covid-19 outbreak and the vaccines. This is not one of them. What we're exploring is the likelihood that what's going on is the product of the same arrogance, incompetence, and corruption that the medical industry and its tame politicians have displayed so abundantly in recent decades. That possibility deserves a space of its own for discussion, and that's what we're doing here.
3. If you don't believe in treating people with common courtesy, please go away. I have, and enforce, a strict courtesy policy on my blogs and online forums, and this is no exception. The sort of schoolyard bullying that takes place on so many other internet forums will get you deleted and banned here. No, I don't care if you disagree with that: my journal, my rules.
With that said, the floor is open for discussion.
Re: Immune tolerance hypothesis
Date: 2021-09-08 03:43 pm (UTC)Which is exactly what I've been expecting, based on the serious issues already reported with the vaccines. The virus itself is not what's overwhelming the hospitals: it's the side effects from injecting millions with an experimental drug, which the publicly available data already says is quite dangerous, that's doing it. From the start, I saw that these vaccines could easily cause systemic disruptions to healthcare, especially if a large fraction of the workforce quits because they don't want to take it, and a sizable fraction of those who remain are among those needing treatment.
Also, where did I ever claim to be unaware people are dying from it? I will question the numbers, since so many people have lied about everything else, and I happen to know someone who drank so much his BAC was 0.5% who was labelled a Covid case because he tested positive for it when they tested him at the hospital. Where he died of alcohol poisoning.
People die with the common cold all the time as well (the standard we use to determine Covid cases): does that mean anyone thinks we shouldn't take anyone seriously if they disagree with shutting down society until we eliminate the common cold?
Re: Immune tolerance hypothesis
Date: 2021-09-08 07:54 pm (UTC)Some deaths with covid rather than from covid have been misclassified, but conversely, some deaths from covid have gone unrecorded. There is also a contingent who says if you're gray-haired or have hypertension or are overweight, then that's what really killed you. However, most Americans fall into at least one of those categories and the hospitals in 2019 weren't collapsing from the onrush of plump people any more than from waves of common cold patients.
People die with the common cold, but very very few people who aren't already at death's door die from it. People ARE dying from covid, and it's not because they were vaccinated or stood next to a vaccinated person last week. It's because covid, though it is usually survivable or even mild, sometimes kills people. And, because it's new, it spreads like wildfire.
That is a genuinely fearsome situation. Some people deal with the fear by greatly exaggerating the risk, thinking "If I, or even my infant, were exposed we would probably die." Some people deny that the risk exists at all or hint that it's only the useless eaters dying. I think the latter are just different ways of mentally coping with the fear of learning that there is a real ongoing threat to our lives that we can't protect ourselves against.
Re: Immune tolerance hypothesis
Date: 2021-09-08 08:58 pm (UTC)Also, most of the really bad cases of colds are labelled "flu", and that is quite a common factor in deaths. But the real problem is that the medical system is reporting everyone who tests positive for it as a Covid patient, which dramatically inflates the apparent rate of hospitalizations for it.
So, I don't have hard evidence it's the vaccines, but I also lack anything I'd consider sufficient to disprove the theory, and it strikes me as much more plausible than the claim that the medical system just suddenly started running into problems in the summer right as the vaccines were rolled out, by coincidence.
Re: Immune tolerance hypothesis
Date: 2021-09-09 12:44 pm (UTC)It may well be that we are going to hit a variant that is more deadly in vaccinated people than unvaccinated people. If everyone were vaccinated (which is far, far from being the case in Idaho) then it would be very difficult to distinguish the resulting deluge of severe illnesses from a variant that was simply more deadly all around. Delta, though, is not that variant.
Reasonable arguments should be about the application of different values to the same facts. You'd expect an argument against your anti-vax sentiment to say "The benefits outweigh the side effects." If someone said "There are no side effects," or worse, "There are no vaccines, or almost none, those videos of mass immunizations are all faked," you'd think this is a person who is impossible to talk to. If there is no consensus reality at all, there is no basis for discussion.
Re: Immune tolerance hypothesis
Date: 2021-09-09 01:35 pm (UTC)Re: Immune tolerance hypothesis
Date: 2021-09-09 01:53 pm (UTC)Re: Immune tolerance hypothesis
Date: 2021-09-09 02:46 pm (UTC)Re: Immune tolerance hypothesis
Date: 2021-09-09 08:42 pm (UTC)Re: Immune tolerance hypothesis
Date: 2021-09-09 03:20 pm (UTC)Re: Immune tolerance hypothesis
Date: 2021-09-09 08:42 pm (UTC)https://healthandwelfare.idaho.gov/news/idaho-activates-crisis-standards-care-north-idaho-due-surge-covid-19-patients-requiring
Re: Immune tolerance hypothesis
Date: 2021-09-09 04:45 pm (UTC)Re: Immune tolerance hypothesis
Date: 2021-09-09 10:53 pm (UTC)The State House put themselves in recess instead of ending their session just so they have the legal ability to rein him in, if needed. He's that bad. He did his best to pretend Idaho is a dense blue state for the whole pandemic, which is blatantly absurd, and try to order policies accordingly. This generally gets him way out of what he can actually do and begging localities to comply with turning his wishes into ordinances.
The only people who like Gov. Chicken Little are his owners, I mean, doners. His only chance of winning his primary is if the field is overly split. Which it looks like they're going for . . . and he's causing the Republican party here to shed voters like crazy.
BoysMom
Re: Immune tolerance hypothesis
Date: 2021-09-12 06:57 pm (UTC)Increasingly loud and shrill and especially common when Trump’s name came up. Hmmm…something about reaping what you sow?
Re: Immune tolerance hypothesis
Date: 2021-09-09 02:00 pm (UTC)Agreed. But notice I am presenting alternative arguments for the facts. You are dismissing them. I explained exactly why the statistics could be wrong. I explained why the "Covid deaths" cover a lot of what for anything else would be classed as non-Covid deaths, and so comparing these statistics to prior things doesn't work. So you're quite right that discussion between us seems impossible, and I won't bother with any further responses.
Re: Immune tolerance hypothesis
Date: 2021-09-09 08:47 pm (UTC)Doctors and nurses, for both ethical and legal reasons, are not permitted to do that. That doesn't mean that they are all stupid, or evilly faking a pandemic for no apparent reason. At least you and I do have one point of agreement: we agree that covid is not a bioweapon. Maybe that's a starting point?