Bitcoin Mania Continues
Jan. 12th, 2018 11:55 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
You know that a speculative mania has entered its final stages, and bodies will start plummeting from windows in the measurably near future, when people begin doing the most obviously idiotic things to pile into the bubble.
With Bitcoin, that moment has arrived. According to this recent article, people are using their credit cards to buy Bitcoin and carrying the balance. So -- ahem -- they're taking out loans, in effect, at whatever rate their credit card happens to charge, to buy a speculative investment, and paying the interest in the fond hope that their Bitcoins are going to make them rich anyway.
In the immortal words of Keith Brand, "Dear God, this is going to end so badly."
Any of my readers who have money in Bitcoin, or any other cryptocurrency, in any other spirit than the one that leads people to blow lots of money on slot machines in Vegas, will want to be ready to wave goodbye to their investment...
With Bitcoin, that moment has arrived. According to this recent article, people are using their credit cards to buy Bitcoin and carrying the balance. So -- ahem -- they're taking out loans, in effect, at whatever rate their credit card happens to charge, to buy a speculative investment, and paying the interest in the fond hope that their Bitcoins are going to make them rich anyway.
In the immortal words of Keith Brand, "Dear God, this is going to end so badly."
Any of my readers who have money in Bitcoin, or any other cryptocurrency, in any other spirit than the one that leads people to blow lots of money on slot machines in Vegas, will want to be ready to wave goodbye to their investment...
(no subject)
Date: 2018-01-13 05:44 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2018-01-13 09:40 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2018-01-13 08:09 pm (UTC)I did enjoy this passage from the Wiki entry on Minsky:
"…his theories have not been incorporated into mainstream economic models, which do not include private debt as a factor."
That explains so much.
(no subject)
Date: 2018-01-13 09:43 pm (UTC)Okay, I knew that mainstream economics was living in a set of delusional fantasies at which florid schizophrenics can only gaze in envy, but I didn't think it went that far.
I'm reminded of one of those rules for evil overlords: "I will have as one of my advisers an average eight-year-old child. Any flaw he detects in my plans will be fixed before implementation."
(no subject)
Date: 2018-01-13 11:50 pm (UTC)Keen's book was quite clear about how bad this debt blindness is. Once you include the debt-based monetary system (which is 97% of our currency), any debt deflation means actual money disappears from circulation.
Even eight-year-olds can understand that a debt disappears when it is repayed or defaulted on. Not a difficult concept. Yet it's only understood, as you say, by evil overlords….
(no subject)
Date: 2018-01-14 05:15 am (UTC)Physicality
Date: 2018-01-14 12:00 am (UTC)The problem that I have with these crypto currency things is that I can not touch them or see them. Now I would be comfortable with those two problems if I could exercise some level of control, but no, can't do that either. The question I have about these things is: what are they?
Cheers
Chris
Re: Physicality
Date: 2018-01-14 05:18 am (UTC)As for what cryptocurrencies are -- well, that again begs the whole question of what money is, and that probably deserves a blog post.
Re: Physicality
Date: 2018-01-14 12:05 pm (UTC)Re: Physicality
Date: 2018-01-15 03:07 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2018-01-14 10:54 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2018-01-14 12:09 pm (UTC)But I do hope *they* convert any bitcoins to something vaguely similar to money as soon as received, because "investing" that is crazy.
(no subject)
Date: 2018-01-14 06:20 pm (UTC)KFC Canada will let you buy their chicken-in-a-casket with Bitcoin (https://twitter.com/kfc_canada/status/951550065411313664).
Chicken pieces don't self-assemble in the fryers; they were bought on revolving lines of credit from suppliers. If any of those suppliers suddenly gets a Bitcoin brainwave...
Now pump and dump happening on other Crypto Currencies
Date: 2018-01-15 04:15 am (UTC)Crypto Currencies' challenges are the power requirements just for maintaining your wallet, never mind mining, and the threat of quantum computing that may well wipe out the integrity of crypto currency by allowing double spending (where I can 'spend' one unit of currency more than once)
Found a nice and useful write up about crypto currency at https://blockgeeks.com/guides/what-is-cryptocurrency/
On another note, found you are an author we can track on BookBub, but your write up is a bit messed up with bits of html in it but missing the closing greater than signs.
It is also a bit out of date. It might be worth your while to claim it as yours and at least do a quick cleanup and update of it.
https://www.bookbub.com/authors/john-michael-greer
(no subject)
Date: 2018-01-15 05:48 pm (UTC)33% of people (in the survey) are buying crypto with DEBIT cards.
18.1% of people (in the survey) are buying crypto with CREDIT cards
Of those 18.1% who used a credit card only 21% did NOT pay off the balance.
That means that 79% of people who bought crypto with credit cards DID pay off their balance right away.
21% of 18% of investors who used credit cards = 4% of crypto buyers are buying on credit cards and carrying a balance.
The article doesn't even catch this flaw in their numbers stating that "22.13 percent of Bitcoin investors did not pay off their credit card balance after purchasing Bitcoin.".
This is flat out wrong using their own data. The number is 4% of investors.
They also lump debit cards and credit cards into the came catagory of "conserning". People buy crypto with credit and debit cards because it's fast. Bank transfers take 5-10 days.
If only 4% of a market is buying on margin that's a pretty healthy market from a leverage perspective.
Also. The vast majority of CC transactions are capped at $500/week or below by the exchanges.
Bit coin has a 241 billion market cap. 4% of buyers carrying a max ballance of $500/week. I wish all markets were so lightly leveraged.
I have found this type of article typical of most reporting on crypto in the main stream. A flashy headline and really bad math. There are many good reasons to be skeptical of cryptos but "everyone buying on margin" isn't one of them.
Charles Hugh Smith has a great article called "The Wrong People Are Getting Rich" that looks into this
https://dailyreckoning.com/wrong-people-getting-rich/
The question I have is; can you be in a bubble when the entire financial sector and the main stream media are screaming that you are in a bubble (and they have been for over a year) ?
Isn't a feature of a bubble that you can't tell you are in one while it's inflating? Is Bitcoin the first bubble in history that was called correctly by the MSM?
JMG I share your consern with speculative bubbles. I've read the great crash based on your recommendation and have read everything you've ever posted.
What I wonder is this; could crypto be the mechanism through which baby boomer wealth is transferred to the younger generations, not just in dollar terms but the real wealth?
Right now boomers controll 80% of all investable wealth. When 80% try to sell to 20% (who have no money) the everything bubble pops. IF 5% of instructional (baby boomer) money goes into crypto we could see $100,000 bitcoin and all of a sudden there are younger buyers for all the houses/stocks/etc.
At that point is it a bubble or is it a currency revaluation?
All the Gold bugs (who are baby boomers) long believed this would happen with Gold/silver as the revaluation mechanism.
A part of me wonders if the Gold bug story was right but the mechanism was wrong?
We are coming up on a 4th turning and that chaos could drive a ton of money into crypto also. Is it a bubble if wealthy people use it to move wealth. It has some unique utility in those regards. The world would be a very different place economically if crypto had existed in 1930's Europe.
I'm on the gen x/mil cusp and have been very conscious of the coming revaluation/ everything bubble for a long time. To me cryptos seem like a new (and unique and useful) tool in that kind of an environment. That untility could justify a very high price (with an unknown buying power)
I'm aware of how many could's and if's I've used here. And I don't think it's different this time from a business as usual POV. But what if 2019-202? it isn't business as usual? Not end of the world chaos but a Twilights Last Gleaming reshuffling of geopolitical and geoeconomic reality.
That's where I see the value in cryptos. That doesn't mean it isn't in bubble right now ;)
Who's the mining company?
Date: 2018-01-16 06:00 pm (UTC)-Dewey
Re: Who's the mining company?
Date: 2018-01-16 11:12 pm (UTC)Re: Who's the mining company?
Date: 2018-01-17 03:42 am (UTC)You'd do quite well to suspect CIA, NSA, or Mossad; after all, those are the enemies of civilization, and Tor (also associated to "privacy" and "anti-statism" activists) was paid for by US military intelligence.
Re: Who's the mining company?
Date: 2018-01-17 06:12 pm (UTC)- Oh, so you mean a pyramid scheme. ;-)
Dewey
Chickens home to roost
Date: 2018-01-16 10:56 pm (UTC)Mind you, I expect this to not be the last time. Bitcoin down 27%, and other crypto currencies down even more.
The top post on r/cryptocurrency on reddit are suicide hotline numbers. R/bitcoin is also having trouble coping.
It truly is shocking and sad how many people have been hurt by this so far, and this is a small sample (reddit), and not the only crash to come.
https://i.imgur.com/ZmypTLd.png
Re: Chickens home to roost
Date: 2018-01-16 11:12 pm (UTC)Re: Chickens home to roost
Date: 2018-01-17 03:31 am (UTC)https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/7qu8t9/18002738255_us_national_suicide_hotline/dss7u4i/ .
(But, of course, a new batch of noobs bought shortly before without checking that.)