Open (More or Less) Post on Covid 198

[ecosophia]

We are now in the fourth year of these open posts. When I first posted a tentative hypothesis on the course of the Covid phenomenon, I had no idea that discussion on the subject would still be necessary more than three years later, much less that it would turn into so lively, complex, and troubling a conversation. Still, here we are. Crude death rates and other measures of collapsing public health are anomalously high in many countries, but nobody in authority wants to talk about the inadequately tested experimental Covid injections that are the most likely cause; public health authorities government shills for the pharmaceutical industry are still trying to push through laws that will allow them to force vaccinations on anyone they want; public trust in science is collapsing; and the story continues to unfold.

So it's time for another open post. The rules are the same as before:

1. If you plan on parroting the party line of the medical industry and its paid shills, please go away. This is a place for people to talk openly, honestly, and freely about their concerns that the party line in question is dangerously flawed and that actions being pushed by the medical industry and its government enablers are causing injury and death on a massive scale. It is not a place for you to dismiss those concerns. Anyone who wants to hear the official story and the arguments in favor of it can find those on hundreds of thousands of websites.

2. If you plan on insisting that the current situation is the result of a deliberate plot by some villainous group of people or other, please go away. There are tens of thousands of websites currently rehashing various conspiracy theories about the Covid-19 outbreak and the vaccines. This is not one of them. What we're exploring is the likelihood that what's going on is the product of the same arrogance, incompetence, and corruption that the medical industry and its wholly owned politicians have displayed so abundantly in recent decades. That possibility deserves a space of its own for discussion, and that's what we're doing here. 
 
3. If you plan on using rent-a-troll derailing or disruption tactics, please go away. I'm quite familiar with the standard tactics used by troll farms to disrupt online forums, and am ready, willing, and able -- and in fact quite eager -- to ban people permanently for engaging in them here. Oh, and I also lurk on other Covid-19 vaccine skeptic blogs, so I'm likely to notice when the same posts are showing up on more than one venue. 

4. If you plan on making off topic comments, please go away. This is an open post for discussion of the Covid epidemic, the vaccines, drugs, policies, and other measures that supposedly treat it, and other topics directly relevant to those things. It is not a place for general discussion of unrelated topics. Nor is it a place to ask for medical advice; giving such advice, unless you're a licensed health care provider, legally counts as practicing medicine without a license and is a crime in the US. Don't even go there.

5. If you don't believe in treating people with common courtesy, please go away. I have, and enforce, a strict courtesy policy on my blogs and online forums, and this is no exception. The sort of schoolyard bullying that takes place on so many other internet forums will get you deleted and banned here. Also, please don't drag in current quarrels about sex, race, religions, etc. No, I don't care if you disagree with that: my journal, my rules. 

6. Please don't just post bare links without explanation. A sentence or two telling readers what's on the other side of the link is a reasonable courtesy, and if you don't include it, your attempted post will be deleted.

Please also note that nothing posted here should be construed as medical advice, which neither I nor the commentariat (excepting those who are licensed medical providers) are qualified to give. Please take your medical questions to the licensed professional provider of your choice.

With that said, the floor is open for discussion. 

Comments

Re: Fertility damage

[ecosophia]

I'm waiting to see more numbers, but on ecological grounds it's not too hard to rough out what will happen. First, heavily vaccinated populations will see a sharp drop in birth rates; on top of the steep decline in birth rates already under way, it's probably fair to describe the result, in any population where the actual (as distinct from official) level of vaccination with effective vaccines was above 50% or so, as a demographic catastrophe. In a few generations the drop will level out, since those who weren't vaccinated will by that very fact be disproportionately likely to reproduce, but population declines above 50% in a century are likely, and in very heavily vaccinated areas 90% isn't impossible.

The economic and cultural impact of that will range from serious to cataclysmic. At a 50% decrease, most real estate will lose all its value, the banking system will be an early casualty, and cultural fringe groups that avoided the jabs will have a disproportionate influence on culture -- it's not impossible, for example, that outside the cities, the eastern United States in 2100 will look Amish. At a 90% decrease the result is culture death -- at that level not enough will survive to allow anything like the former culture to be reconstituted, and new cultural forms will evolve locally or be brought in from elsewhere.

Re: Fertility damage

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, once again it appears to be happening. The Circle was a fictional group in one of your novels, not something to be aspired to.

John of Red Hook

Re: Fertility damage

[ecosophia]

Circle was fictional, but given the number of factors already cutting down on fertility back when I wrote Star's Reach, I thought it was very plausible. Now? I think something of the sort is pretty much baked in the cake.

(For those who don't know what John and I are talking about, in 25th-century Meriga, women who are capable of bearing healthy children are a privileged caste, and there's an organization called Circle, distantly descended from modern Wicca and women's empowerment groups, that's composed of fertile women and has a great deal of social clout. You have to bear a healthy child by the age of 20 to get in.)

Re: Fertility damage

[jenniferkobernik]

Something about that poll where a third or so of Democrats were willing to take the children of the unvaccinated away from their parents continues to bother me. (Well, everything about it continues to bother me, but leaving that aside…). I also see more and more rhetoric from woke Progressives about taking kids away for all kinds of thought crimes and alleged abuses: “medical neglect” (vaccine refusal), “educational neglect” (homeschooling), “emotional/psychological abuse” (not supporting gender transition) etc. I feel paranoid saying it, but I fear we will see more and more aggress attempts to take and control other people’s children as the PMC continues to have fewer of their own.

Re: Fertility damage

[(Anonymous)]

Candace Owens has just had her 3rd child and she decided not to get any of them vaccinated. The hospital then referred her to the CPS who paid her a visit. Now she wouldn't be intimidated by that, but lots of new moms would.

https://x.com/Girlpatriot1974/status/1924047098200408269

In another clip she talks about being injured by Gardasil which made her anti-vax and how “They make you feel that if you don't just say yes to everything, your child's gonna die.”

https://x.com/ChildrensHD/status/1909803705320304733

People need to stop being bullied by these jab pushers. Owens has a free series all about vaccines.

https://candaceowens.com/a-shot-in-the-dark/

Re: Fertility damage

[the_arcane_archivist]

Looks to me that this is a state egregore, and waxxing make them feel that you are indeed property of the state. That's why I think they have a strict policy on animals and waxxing animals and who owns what wild life. They'd rather own something dead or maimed that having something alive that they don't own, remember Peanut the squirrel episode?

Re: Fertility damage

[methylethyl]

Why do you think they're so obsessed with Handmaid's Tale? We've already established most of what they are so paranoid about other people doing... is exactly what they have been actually doing, or thinking about doing.

Re: Fertility damage

[denebalgedi777]

The transformation of Democrats into shrill Nazis continues. Just the other day, I had a family member, who is extremely afflicted with TDS and the entire syndrome of elitist-PMC pretensions, tell me that some people shouldn't be allowed to breed without the state signing off on it first. And we all know who was meant by this (Republicans, anti-vaxxers, anyone the PMC doesn't like today which seems to be a growing list). This was between foaming at the mouth rants about how awful this or that Trump appointee was, and how stupid his followers were. If it weren't for legal issues around inheritance I would consider breaking contact with this person, but as it is I am going to try and minimize contact. Frankly, I don't want to be involved with wherever this nasty group karma is leading, even by association, and I'm dismayed that more people aren't actively standing up against it, considering the fact that it's not actually that popular. Apathy has allowed this stuff to spread unopposed. The only other thing for it is to just get out of the blast radius of the worst areas afflicted by it.

Re: Fertility damage

[the_arcane_archivist]

As watcher from outside, I am a Romanian living in Romania, it amazes me how the more radical and vocal Democrats become more powerful unde Republican presidents... you would think they would just sit the mandate and wait for their guy to have the office...

Even the whole predominately Democratic Bovid show, Lockdowns and all, was done under Trump.

Re: Fertility damage

[(Anonymous)]

The only question I have - is their hair blue?

Re: Fertility damage

[slinky_weasel]

Well, that actually sounds hopeful. The Amish seem like good, wholesome people who know how to grow food. We could do a lot worse!

Re: Fertility damage

[(Anonymous)]

Thank you JMG, that's helpful. It's difficult to face up to the more dire possibilities but easier with company.

Tangerine Bulbous Hummingbird

Re: Fertility damage

[vitranc]

Ok, that is so sobering.
Question; How does ‘one rough this out on ecological grounds’. I would love to understand the logic of it, if I may.
Question2; let’s say the population drops are as severe as this, what can we do? What could two young parents with children do in a remote hinterland region?

Best regards,
lone seed bearer with out a boat

Re: Fertility damage

[ecosophia]

Have plenty of children and teach them self-reliance and a lot of practical skills. Remote hinterland regions are an excellent choice for such a couple, as they'll be sheltered from some of the troubles.

Re: Fertility damage

[drhooves]

On Sunday, Karl Denninger wrote a post on this topic (of the Japan study) , and pretty much comes to the same conclusions as JMG, at least as far as the economic impact, and the length of time to clear the population of the effects.

https://market-ticker.org/cgi-ticker/akcs-www?post=253295

Here's the link to the study:

https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/13/4/345

A bonus link to Denninger's comments about the Jabs and Biden's and Scott Adam's recent announcement of prostate cancer:

https://market-ticker.org/cgi-ticker/akcs-www?post=253302


And finally, a note about a recent three part podcast series Denninger and his daughter created - very disappointing for him. Rambling and a waste of time, with only a couple of new tidbits thrown in there. But I've always appreciated the approach he generally sticks with in that he deals with confirmed numbers and data, which is in stark contrast to his frequent splutterfest posts on what MUST be changed....

Re: Fertility damage

[anonymoose_canadian]

What bothers me is that this is pretty much exactly what we'd expect to see if our visions are broadly accurate and reflect reality. You wouldn't necessarily expect to see a mass die off given the issues with souls being yanked away from Earth (given the issue in my vision with the massive effort being put into getting those creatures home, and the fact that being grounded in a human body would be one way to fight that pull), but a very steep decline in birth rates as a lot of the souls in dying bodies get dragged away would certainly be expected.

Given both visions have some troubling implications (and mine has a few details I do not intend to share in an open forum that make it a lot more troubling), I am somewhat bothered by the fact that the kind of steep decline in fertility that we're seeing is exactly what we would expect to see if they are accurate...

Re: Fertility damage

[boccaccio]

My previous post became messy, so a new attempt.

The numbers from the European countries are largely available up and to 2024. Substacker CM27874 dutifully assembles them. There is an excell spreadsheet with the numbers up and to Q4 2024 available here https://cm27874.substack.com/p/european-births-q4-2024-update

Compared to the 2017-2020 medium live births, Europe is down -/- 12% in 2024. This doesn't take into account the effect of immigration, so the fertility is down even more. Most concerning is that the trend is still downwards.

The question is how much this is caused by fertility issues. The countries Bulgaria and Romania have by far the lowes vax rates in the EU, but Romania was in 2024 down 30% (Bulgaria inclomplete but suggesting 20% down). Is it war, economic crisis, the vaxx, the virus?? - Probabely multiple causes.


Some other interesting tidbits:

In Denmark fertility in 2024 is down 15% compared to 2019: Total fertility rate (ages 15-49) is down from 1,699.4 to 1,465.6 https://www.statistikbanken.dk/20018 (Select total fertility and in the next page select all)

In Sweden fertility in 2023 was down ca 13% compared to 2019 (from 1700 to 1485) https://archive.fo/ZATiD

Male sperm is also damaged. "The motile sperm concentration and total motile sperm count (TMSC) in ejaculates—both measures of sperm quality—declined by as much as 22% from 2019 to 2022." https://academic.oup.com/humrep/article/39/8/1618/7687510

Currently excess mortality in the Netherlands is highest in women aged 30-50. That doesn't bode well for fertility and for society's capacity to deal with the challenges coming up. Ususlly those years should be ones most productive with raising children and work. We're also burning the demographic candle both ways with the sustained excess mortality.

My country will look very different in a few decades with these developments. The lowest vaxx rates were in the immigrant population, the fundamentalist Calvinist christians and the spiritual (usually white) people. That's an uneasy mix.

Re: Fertility damage

[(Anonymous)]

Thank you for this

Formerly Tangerine Bulbous Hummingbird

Re: Fertility damage

[(Anonymous)]

During the 70s, the rural was in decline and the urban was ascendant. I think all that is in the process of reversing. By 2070, I suspect the cities will be a lot more respectful to farmers than they are right now.

Re: Fertility damage

[denebalgedi777]

This is a quite sobering assessment, but I don't think it's wrong, and it's on the level of what happened to the Western Roman Empire in its later centuries, when the actually Roman population likely declined by as much as you said here. In particular, by about the middle of the 5th century, there were hardly enough Romans left to defend the Western part of the empire, so it was probably on the order of a 90% drop by that time. It was Germanic barbarians ruling over landless peasants working the giant estates of the remaining aristocrats at that point - of course, this was the basis of the dark age to come. I don't see something like your scenario as at all far-fetched these days. Honestly, the condition of the big cities in America has the feeling of a civilization in twilight, not unlike how Europe probably felt around the time of Peladan (with the notable exception that Europe had a large youth population in those days and we do not).