Open (More or Less) Post on Covid 99

[ecosophia]

As we proceed through the second year of these open posts, it's pretty clear that the official narrative is cracking as the toll of deaths and injuries from the Covid vaccines rises steadily and the vaccines themselves demonstrate their total uselessness at preventing Covid infection or transmission. It's still important to keep watch over the mis-, mal- and nonfeasance of our self-proclaimed health gruppenfuehrers, and the disastrous results of the Covid mania, but I think it's also time to begin thinking about what might be possible as the existing medical industry reels under the impact of its own self-inflicted injuries. 

So it's time for another open post. The rules are the same as before: 

1. If you plan on parroting the party line of the medical industry and its paid shills, please go away. This is a place for people to talk openly, honestly, and freely about their concerns that the party line in question is dangerously flawed and that actions being pushed by the medical industry et al. are causing injury and death. It is not a place for you to dismiss those concerns. Anyone who wants to hear the official story and the arguments in favor of it can find those on hundreds of thousands of websites.

2. If you plan on insisting that the current situation is the result of a deliberate plot by some villainous group of people or other, please go away. There are tens of thousands of websites currently rehashing various conspiracy theories about the Covid-19 outbreak and the vaccines. This is not one of them. What we're exploring is the likelihood that what's going on is the product of the same arrogance, incompetence, and corruption that the medical industry and its tame politicians have displayed so abundantly in recent decades. That possibility deserves a space of its own for discussion, and that's what we're doing here. 
 
3. If you plan on using rent-a-troll derailing or disruption tactics, please go away. I'm quite familiar with the standard tactics used by troll farms to disrupt online forums, and am ready, willing, and able -- and in fact quite eager -- to ban people permanently for engaging in them here. Oh, and I also lurk on other Covid-19 vaccine skeptic blogs, so I'm likely to notice when the same posts are showing up on more than one venue. 

4. If you don't believe in treating people with common courtesy, please go away. I have, and enforce, a strict courtesy policy on my blogs and online forums, and this is no exception. The sort of schoolyard bullying that takes place on so many other internet forums will get you deleted and banned here. Also, please don't drag in current quarrels about sex, race, religions, etc. No, I don't care if you disagree with that: my journal, my rules. 

With that said, the floor is open for discussion.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I've just realized an old question I asked on (I believe) a Magic Monday several years ago seems uncomfortably relevant. Sadly, I can't remember where it was, and have not yet been able to find it again, but it had to do with a question on an idiotic working for political purposes. In this case, it was an attempt to try to bring about "clarity of thought" to anti-vaxxers, and remove the emotional baggage that prevented people from seeing vaccines as the life saving inventions they are. Your reaction was to note two of the asumptions this working had, namely that vaccines were all overall life savers, and that what was motivating anti-vaxxers was emotional baggage; and that if they were not true, the working would fail to accomplish much of anything; and then someone else noticed that there were two intentions that were potentially opposed to each other (allowing others to think clearly on vaccination, and making sure people see them as life saving), and asked what would happen if they both were to recieve enough force to have effect, and vaccines caused more harm than good. You said something along the lines of "I'd expect to see the people who cast the working becoming increasingly obsessed with vaccination, and lose the ability to think clearly about the topic, instead only able to think "warm-fuzzy"; and for the resulting mess with at least one spectacularly dysfunctional vaccine seriously injuring or killing people to convince others to carefully rethink vaccination, with the effect of this working bringing them clarity on this that would otherwise be lacking." Someone else then asked about if this could be used to create a death trap for the people casting it, and your resposne was something like "I'm not going to help anyone with magic to kill people."

Well, what's occurred to me is that this may very well help explain what happened in 2020. It wasn't a sudden shift: the rhetoric around vaccination was always problematic, but it started getting really weird in the time around when Trump was elected. Things got extremely messy in 2020, but there was a very, very strange shift in late 2020 and early 2021, when the vaccines were first brought to market. It was as if millions of people suddenly lost the ability to think clearly about vaccination; and could only see them as positive no matter how many people died from them. Meanwhile, a huge number of people who previously strongly supported vaccination, suddenly had insight along the lines of "This vaccine is going to be very dangerous; I'd better not take it." I'm one of them: things suddenly fell in place, I suddenly found myself with a whole lot of understanding and insight; but this always felt very odd to me.

Well, this matches what you said you'd expect if both of those intentions were to have been activated; and we also know, courtesy of the person who brought the old Magic Monday questions about workings to kill people who support Trump, that some people in the alt-right occultist scene had absolutely no problem with doing magic to try to kill the Magic Resistance, so it seems uncomfortably plausible to me that this working may have been given that kind of attention...

[(Anonymous)]

This is a bit of a tangent as I have no input about magic, but I do remember a strong social media push against "anti vaxxers" a few years before covid. I definitely remember it becoming very strong and sort of the scapegoat of people to mock, people too stupid to give their kids vaccines, look at the data, etc. Not that any data was ever actually given, mind you, it was more lecture-y, mocking memes and zingers, that sort of thing. Now I've been "vaccine hesitant" before that was a term, now not hesitant at all, it's just a clear NO for me. I was injured by a vaccine as a kid, had a really weird / scary reaction, my mom said she was furious when the doctors just talked about how "interesting" it was. Anyway. I'm sort of immune to mockery of "anti vaxxers" because I know it's more complicated than the bullet points they'll talk about. And they'll never, never talk about the actual facts rather than just blowing up at people emotionally about it. I've just let it wash over myself. My mom and I were both of this mindset, I feel, even though there were a lot of areas politically and otherwise where we didn't align. Just a deep skepticism and unwillingness to "go there" with people who will just want to mock you, etc. This attitude was all over social media but I wouldn't say it intruded much in real life.

My brother, otoh, definitely fell into a mild "well anti vaxxers are kinda dumb" in real life, like he believed "the science" about all of this. He's the only one in my family who got the covid shot, and he regretted it afterwards as more came out about how it was made, and a lot of other stuff. We have not talked about this a lot. I have to say we don't tend to align politically, and he's far more right wing than I am. I am left, sometimes middle, he's right, sometimes middle. Anyway. I was fine with masks and some of the pandemic measures (though in retrospect it seems many weren't as well planned and effective as they claimed), but I was absolutely immune to anything vaxx-pushing and I think the phrase "vaccine hesitant" was such a mind fuck to push onto people who were not hesitant - they were saying NO.

I saw something online about how technology keeps trying to remove "no" from us. We don't want to sign up for this or that - there's no "no" it's just Yes or Maybe Later. In many areas, this just being one. That's how it felt with the vaxx shit. They wouldn't believe that No Means No. My body, my choice - I don't want that in me.

In my area, there were frankly rather offensive billboards with lots of mexican-american families, bland statements about "hesitancy" and "getting the facts" and stuff about protecting your loved ones, helping them "understand" why they needed it. I don't know if the latino community was particularly "hesitant" here or if that was just their way of trying to make people look down on the "hesitant" or what. It just felt like really dumb propaganda nobody would believe. The subtext was pretty clearly "dumb minorities need educated." I'm sorry, but it was really gross.

It almost seems to me like everyone had their mind made up about vaccines before it all happened. Like completely made up already! It's so weird to me. I very clearly remember when we were all focused on lockdowns and people were still saying we just needed a bit longer to flatten the curve - all these posts about how great it would be, how they hoped for a vaccine soon, so that the lockdowns could all end. What a wonderful thing it would be, when this savior of a vaccine would arrive and free us all!

I just remember thinking it was weird everyone was so obsessed with vaccines before they were even on the horizon, instead of continuing to talk about how to prevent or cure this problem.

Borders should have been shut far sooner than they were. Not that I think that would have stopped it. But it might have slowed the spread more than any of the draconian measures. The flights around the world were really not cracked down on as any sane measure of safety could have recommended by a working government. I don't remember if any country did actually bother trying to close their borders for international flights to slow the spread, but ours sure fucked that one up for far too long.

Then the things like suppressing information about how to best fight off the disease, or keep yourself from getting it, even really basic things like vitamin D levels just weren't disseminated to the public and were sometimes even suppressed, much less more "controversial" treatments (such as not putting people on respirators).

I was super disappointed in the left wing crowd about this, but I saw a lot of bad actors in the right wing arena, too. Nobody in politics really gets a pass from me on this whole messy event.

I am now at the point where hearing about sudden deaths and shocking diagnoses and "weird" health events leads me to the sort of silence I've long held about the whole "anti vaxx" issue. Like I'm not going to bring it up, I'm not going to argue, I'm not going to challenge your worldview. Believe what you want. But I'm not shocked when people who've been vaxxed are dealing with more of this than most.

People who didn't / don't take this sickness seriously are playing with fire, IMO. It definitely hurt me and people I love. It left a lot of people weakened and with complicated. But none of them as bad as the vaxx, and no matter how bad this sickness has been to so many, I don't think the actions for pushing the vax on people was justified. And I think it would have been morally wrong even if it did what they said. If it was world saving and magical, and cured all the world's ills, it would still be wrong to use coercion to make people take it.

There is blood on many hands because of this, and i shudder to think how it will play out as the damage continues to unfold. I feel this is the thing now that we as a society can't talk about. The big unspoken THING. Who's next? Who got it? What will happen to us all, if they can do all of this to us, is there any hope at all? I think a lot of people can't even think this in their own minds. It's just there, in the subconscious, driving them slowly mad. I hate that for them. I don't wish harm on the antivaxxers who wished harm on me. I think they were duped and fell for it. There but for the grace of god, you know?

Sometimes a real reckoning never comes. It just gets buried and poisons a society. I think there's a lot of that in America. I think there might be more to come. Would love to be wrong about that! Would love to see some actual justice and a clearing of this miasma of evil we all live in.

[(Anonymous)]

Absolutely, there was something really weird around vaccines long before covid.

Vaccines have been some sort of sacred cow for many years (if not decades) now. We've had threads here about it before. I've mentioned how deeply weird it is that it's still possible to have rational conversations about other medical interventions, of the "yes they have their place but they do have risks and get over-used variety," but the second you suggest that vaccines have the same risk-benefit considerations as other medical interventions, one size does not fit all, just because a little might be good doesn't mean more is better, and there is likely a profit motive behind all the vax-pushing and the explosion of the childhood schedule, all of a sudden previously reasonable-seeming people will go full head-swiveling-360-degrees dead-eyed bat-shale bonkers and start shrieking pro-vax mantras like they're possessed by demons (maybe they are, at this point I can't rule anything out).

Somewhere, somehow, vaccination became a marker of an in-group belief system among certain groups of people. The Good People, the Smart and Educated ones, all KNOW that Vaccines Save Live, Vaccines Are Safe And Effective, Get Your Vaccines!, and that people who are "vaccine-hesitant" need to be Educated (coerced) into getting them (ALL of them), and anyone who questions this program is a stupid, ignorant, uneducated, misinformed, potentially dangerous "anti-vaxxer" moron, and clearly Not One Of Us, Dear.

The fact that this particular medical intervention has achieved this status is just....bizarre, to say the least. I've been watching it and puzzling over it for a good 20 years now. Seems like it just keeps getting more extreme.

[(Anonymous)]

It's the result of a deliberate campaign.

If you're old enough, you might remember that as late as the 80s, smoking was still pretty normal in the US. There were still matchbooks and ashtrays on restaurant tables. Then there was an absolutely massive campaign to get people to stop smoking-- I think it may have started in the 90s, but I was a kid then and it wasn't really on my radar. It went into super high gear in the early 2000s, when they were pushing legislation to ban public indoor smoking. Ultimately, I think the legislation was needed, but the campaign around it was completely psychotic-- when educating the public didn't get the desired results, they switched to demonizing, social pressure, early-internet-prototypes of paid media trolling... It was the first time in my adult life I'd really *noticed* propaganda, and AFAICT, it was the first such campaign that was conducted in the internet era, using "social influencer" strategies and troll farms. It's become a template for internet-based propaganda/social campaigns, though they have exciting new tools now-- automated keyword censoring, botnets, that sort of thing.

There's been a similar campaign against "antivaxxers", and it has worked. It has been a bit slower and lower-key, and the pieces of legislation attached to it have mostly failed... but it's there. The paid online social-media trolls/influencers, the spokesdoctors pretending they aren't being paid by drug companies, TV news talking points...

I've seen other smaller, more targeted campaigns around breastfeeding and home/natural childbirth. At that level, there are probably a lot more campaigns going on, and those are just the ones that crossed my radar, because they happened while I was new to motherhood, and still reading in the "mommy sphere". The common thread to all of those things is: if it advocates doing things naturally, and buying fewer commercial products, it's ruthlessly attacked on multiple fronts, with the goal of making anyone advocating such things a guilt-ridden pariah.

To anyone paying attention, the CVAX campaign looked familiar. Same template, same actors, but with more resources backing it, supposedly neutral platforms censoring unapproved info and dissident users, and the volume turned up to deafening.

[(Anonymous)]

I set up a simple little website for small local group of covid heretics skeptics. Someone asked me the other day if I'd thought about increasing the site's visibility on search engines. I replied that basically I didn't think it would be worth the effort-- all relevant keywords would just get us sunk to the bottom of any search results. And likely draw unwelcome attention somehow.

It feels like electronic samizdat. Or a website speakeasy, hidden in plain sight. If you really want to, you'll find us. That resembles my approach to the topic with anybody I don't know well. Ask me, and I have tons of info and suggestions. But my lips are sealed unless you ask.

(It's unfortunately that way with my spouse, as well.)

[(Anonymous)]

I am a newbie to this website but not a newbie when it comes to the anti-tobbacco campaigns.
I did this research as a smoker whose eyes were opened by a surgeon friend who told me that there's no difference between the smoker's lung and the non smoker's lung except for, maybe, a slightly thicker mucus, and that smoker's were much less likely to develop cancer from Asbestos for example.
At that time I knew that smoking helps keeping my genetically messed up blood pressure in check I unwittingly performed an experiment on myself by quitting smoking for 2 years and developing familial insane blood pressure problems, then smoking again then quitting smoking for 6 months...the result was that I simply smoke 10 cigarettes a day since I consider this more healthy than taking a handful of pills that work sometimes.
But to my point and the rabbit hole that I entered.
Unfortunately majority of my research is no longer accessible because the links to it went dark. Nowadays with the search engines finding anything on my research seems impossible. This one survived but I don't know for how long:
https://www.sott.net/article/338885-A-comprehensive-review-of-the-many-health-benefits-of-smoking-Tobacco#
The anti-tobbaco propaganda did not start in the 80's it started in the 50's.
The governments of the West poured money into research that could explain the cancer epidemic (as they called it). This in itself is interesting because no such epidemic existed at the time.
At first both, alcohol and tobacco were targeted but alcohol was dropped pretty fast (I have my theories as to why).
The first big study on tobacco and it's correlation to lung cancer was 1950 Wynder and Graham Study which was just...bad.
But it's accepted as a great first step.
There were some links pointing out that the study was so bad it was ignored by the community and it was understood that the government funding it had more to do with the result than anything else.
But this study paved a way to even more bad studies. To date we don't have 1 experiment showing causation ie. The cigarette smoke or tar actually causing cancer of any type.
It's not for the lack of trying.
Instead we now are dealing with an epidemic of lung cancers in women that were never affected by smoke, not even as children. The epidemic skews the regular ratio of the men/women lung cancer very hard and the Science TM cannot explain it with cigarette smoke although they are trying.
The rabid anti-tobbacco propaganda in my opinion serves a purpose of obscuring something else that's causing the cancers.
It may be a vaccine or one of them. Or it may be a simple fact that at the same time that the government got very interested in the research they also started "mass" nuclear tests. I don't think we will ever know for sure but at this time the propaganda is so ingrained that the tobacco is doomed in my opinion so the possible positive health effects may never be known.
Epidemiological studies show over and over again that rhe smoker cohort has a significantly lower blood pressure than the non-smoker cohort.
But I was told that if I start smoking again my blood pressure that the "modern" medicine cannot and will not help, will go up.

[transcriberb]

Re: "The subtext was pretty clearly "dumb minorities need educated." I'm sorry, but it was really gross."

Yes, totally agree. I found that kind of propaganda extremely stupid, arrogant, and offensive.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm the person who was subjected to emissaries of the Church of the Holy Vax turning up on the porch of my house in a working-class neighborhood in New Jersey over the summer of 2021, to chat me up about various government "resources" (hurricane relief, free jabs) before asking me point-black if I'd had the covid vaccine, and also asking me to confirm my identity (which they already had on a little electric device).

Why?

Because I live in what was apparently identified as a "low uptake community,"* and the county government, in all their magnanimity, had decided that communities like ours were lacking in things like Information and Education about Salvation through the Miracle of Science. So they pulled lists of people who weren't on record as having participated in Vaxmass, and sent out missionaries in Holy Regalia (masks, badges) to "educate" us. The first time they showed up I didn't realize what was going on until after I had confirmed my identity, but before informing the missionary that my religious practices were none of her business. The second time I just asked if they had a warrant.

The whole thing was unbelievably stupid, arrogant, and offensive.

*"Low uptake community" is bureaucrat speak for "neighborhood full of dirty working class, poor, immigrant, and/or dark-skinned people who don't rush right out to obey when their betters tell them what to do."

[(Anonymous)]

tech and NO

Thank you for pointing this out. I have noticed it, and it annoys me, but have not brought it into the light and articulated it yet, and it needed saying out loud.

I hate it. Do you want to upgrade to more expensive service? (hell no) yes/maybelater. Do you want to give us your phone number? (hell no) yes/maybelater. "Maybe later" is permission to keep nagging you about it until you either give in, or accidentally click the wrong button and then have to climb the glassy hill of inhuman "customer support" to undo it. They're counting on people being willing to pay extra for a service they don't need/want, rather than have to spend hours navigating the deliberate maze that is trying to reach a human being at the company who can fix it.