Open (More or Less) Post on Covid 74

[ecosophia]

As we proceed through the second year of these open posts, it's pretty clear that the official narrative is cracking as the toll of deaths and injuries from the Covid vaccines rises steadily and the vaccines themselves demonstrate their total uselessness at preventing Covid infection or transmission. It's still important to keep watch over the mis-, mal- and nonfeasance of our self-proclaimed health gruppenfuehrers, and the disastrous results of the Covid mania, but I think it's also time to begin thinking about what might be possible as the existing medical industry reels under the impact of its own self-inflicted injuries. 

So it's time for another open post. The rules are the same as before: 

1. If you plan on parroting the party line of the medical industry and its paid shills, please go away. This is a place for people to talk openly, honestly, and freely about their concerns that the party line in question is dangerously flawed and that actions being pushed by the medical industry et al. are causing injury and death. It is not a place for you to dismiss those concerns. Anyone who wants to hear the official story and the arguments in favor of it can find those on hundreds of thousands of websites.

2. If you plan on insisting that the current situation is the result of a deliberate plot by some villainous group of people or other, please go away. There are tens of thousands of websites currently rehashing various conspiracy theories about the Covid-19 outbreak and the vaccines. This is not one of them. What we're exploring is the likelihood that what's going on is the product of the same arrogance, incompetence, and corruption that the medical industry and its tame politicians have displayed so abundantly in recent decades. That possibility deserves a space of its own for discussion, and that's what we're doing here. 
 
3. If you plan on using rent-a-troll derailing or disruption tactics, please go away. I'm quite familiar with the standard tactics used by troll farms to disrupt online forums, and am ready, willing, and able -- and in fact quite eager -- to ban people permanently for engaging in them here. Oh, and I also lurk on other Covid-19 vaccine skeptic blogs, so I'm likely to notice when the same posts are showing up on more than one venue. 

4. If you don't believe in treating people with common courtesy, please go away. I have, and enforce, a strict courtesy policy on my blogs and online forums, and this is no exception. The sort of schoolyard bullying that takes place on so many other internet forums will get you deleted and banned here. Also, please don't drag in current quarrels about sex, race, religious, etc. No, I don't care if you disagree with that: my journal, my rules. 

With that said, the floor is open for discussion. 

Comments

Re: Some thoughts on IgG4 tolerance

[dendroica]

I did a brief search for this and came back with this article, apparently published today:
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.122.061025

"Circulating Spike Protein Detected in Post–COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine Myocarditis"

So, maybe the heart cells are producing spike and there is then an autoimmune attack mounted against them, or maybe it is a general cardiovascular inflammation from circulating spike? I'm not sure if anyone has yet isolated spike protein directly from heart cells.

Re: Some thoughts on IgG4 tolerance

[boccaccio]

Thanks for the link, that is an interesting synchronicity! I read the study as that the incidence of myocarditis after vaccination is associated with free spike protein, unbound by antibodies.

"So, maybe the heart cells are producing spike and there is then an autoimmune attack mounted against them, or maybe it is a general cardiovascular inflammation from circulating spike?"

Considering the data, the second looks more likely to me. It seems that heart-troubles are still prevalent and the English data still show most of the excess mortality is due to cardiovascular and liver problems. Yet the vaccination campaign seems to be mostly over in the UK. That yields the same situation as the Netherlands where the vaccination campaign is almost over but the incidence of heartproblems stays very high. If it is an autoimmune attack that causes it, there must be very late diagnosis or a small scale auto-immune attack that continues for a long time. If it is a general inflammation from circulating spike the occurance of serious problems could happen after a longer time. That seems more likely, but I'm the first to admit that I lack the proper medical knowledge to know for sure. What do you think?

"I'm not sure if anyone has yet isolated spike protein directly from heart cells."

I don't know of any solid proof, but I think spike protein in the heart was proven to be likely in Michael Moerz publication of an autopsy of a vaxx victim (https://www.mdpi.com/2076-393X/10/10/1651). Figure 13 of the study has the following text "Heart left ventricle. Positive reaction for SARS-CoV-2 spike protein. Cross section through a capillary vessel" Of course n=1, and a capillary vessel is not an actual heart cell, but that is as close as I know of. A leaky capillary vessel could easily have spike enter a heartcell, or is this less likely than it sounds?

Re: Some thoughts on IgG4 tolerance

[dendroica]

This is probably less of an either/or situation than we are surmising.

In some people (particularly if the needle is not aspirated and the injection is into a blood vessel) the mRNA-LNP particles will circulate in the blood, and some will probably enter cells in the heart and cause spike production there. That said, spike binds to ACE2 receptors on the cell surface, and cells in the heart have these receptors (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32227090/), so even if the spike isn't *produced* there but is circulating in the blood it could easily end up bound to the cell surface and triggering an inflammatory response.

It's sort of a gray area as to whether this might be called "autoimmunity." If we define autoimmunity as the body attacking its own healthy cells, then it fits. If we define autoimmunity as the body attacking a self-antigen, then it doesn't fit, since it's attacking a foreign antigen (spike) that is present on healthy cells. As long as the attack is spike-dependent and doesn't extend to other self-antigens, most scientists would probably not describe it as autoimmune, though of course it is still damaging and dangerous.

Re: Some thoughts on IgG4 tolerance

[boccaccio]

Ah, the binding to ACE2 plays a role too. I remember reading a study that estimated that a vein will be hit in 1 in 3,000 cases based on a comparison of Danish and Norwegian data (If I remember correct, dr Campbell shared it in the early Coof days). The Thai study showed an incidence of myocarditis in 29% in young men, so it seems likely there are other mechanisms too causing this trouble, but that's of course yet another thing that needs to be researched.

Anyway, thank you for your continued engagement on this forum Mark!