An Ecosophian Dating Site?
Oct. 15th, 2020 10:41 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ecosophia
Over on the main blog, one of my readers expressed his frustration with the difficulties of dating during the current viral outbreak, and noted that this was on top of the already substantial difficulties piled on that activity. I commented in response that I'd gotten the impression more than once that there was an unfilled market niche for a dating site that catered to the kind of people who read my books and blog posts -- that is, oddballs. ;-) The suggestion got an immediate burst of interest from readers, and so I figure I would take it here and raise the question. Oh, and I also chose a name for it, to simplify the process: Fireflower. You can psychoanalyze that any way you like!
Is this something that readers would find of interest? What features would you want to see, and not see, in such a site? Comments on very basic issues are fine -- I've never used a dating site, having celebrated my 36th anniversary earlier this year. Or is this something you'd rather the world be without? Inquiring Druids want to know.
(no subject)
Date: 2020-10-16 03:09 am (UTC)Don’t charge too much, if anything—the Depression is upon us. Maybe it could be another weekly feature—Friendly Friday, or whatever.
If I think of anything else, I’ll submit it.
There’s a Druid who wants to help us find true love
There’s a Druid who wants to help us find true love
He is kind and he is bearded
Out by us he’ll not be weirded
There’s a Druid who wants to help us find true love.
—Lady Cutekitten
Fireflower
Date: 2020-10-16 09:02 am (UTC)https://jisho.org/search/fireworks
Well played Mr Greer !
(no subject)
Date: 2020-10-16 03:48 am (UTC)Relevantly, I've attempted to employ dating sites for many years with zero success. When I say "zero" I mean not one single date and only a few flirtatious messages. I don't think that dating sites can well-harmonize the differences of needs between men and women in terms of formal courtship. The only people I know who have had success with dating sites are the polyamorous, swingers, and cruisers.
Lastly, the majority of ecosophians I've met have been males, and the females I've met tend to be well over 40 and in relationships. For this reason I think that it's unlikely that very many relationships might form.
That said, I'm temperamentally supportive of people falling in love and think it would be darling, marvelous, and beautiful if an ecosophia dating site were to cause more love to manifest in people's lives! I'm extremely skeptical that it would be worth the trouble if its creation though, for the reasons elaborated above
(no subject)
Date: 2020-10-16 05:17 am (UTC)Really. Those farmer sites are a thing, and for good reason—in the urbanized 21st century, many people who might fall in love with a farmer have no idea of the sheer physical labor involved.
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2020-10-17 10:00 am (UTC) - Expand(no subject)
Date: 2020-10-16 04:26 am (UTC)You can probably run a site like this for a while without encountering any trouble based in the good faith of the intended audience, but the time for naive operation of websites gets shorter every year. The first lawsuit in an unfamiliar state (or even country) will quickly wipe you out. Yes the United States has a statute that insulates websites from liability to some extent, but you need a lawyer to stay within the confines of the protections offered by the statute, and then you need another lawyer to explain why you have no liability in every state where someone sues you.
That said, it sounds interesting and best of luck.
How about a gathering?
Date: 2020-10-16 05:04 am (UTC)I'm also married and would not make use of such a service, but perhaps an actual gathering would provide opportunities for pairings.
Legal aspects
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2020-10-16 12:26 pm (UTC) - Expand(no subject)
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2020-10-16 07:27 pm (UTC) - Expand(no subject)
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2020-10-17 02:39 am (UTC) - Expand(no subject)
Date: 2020-10-16 05:52 am (UTC)You may have noticed on some subreddits for alternative views and politics that there is a wariness of newbies trying to organise meetups or asking certain kinds of questions that is met by cynical posters with lines like "nice try feds". A similar wariness could be applicable for this too.
Some way for posters in the community to contact each other individually without getting spammed is all that's needed. For those who post on here with Dreamwidth accounts, all they would need to do is put more about themselves on their profiles and say they are looking for likeminded friends, with any other specifications like location or gender.
friendship is possible
Date: 2020-10-16 09:54 pm (UTC)Naysayers can speak for themselves, of course.
A bit of courage may be more helpful, though ;)
My sense is that there is a lot of potential for good in terms of potential synergies amongst the commentariat of both ecosophia sites.
(no subject)
Date: 2020-10-16 05:59 am (UTC)Especially as one Ecosophians creep is knight in shining armor, and least we forget ladies can be both the creep and the knight.
Not sure how I’d fit in on such a site being a techno-optimist, singularian and, obviously, part of the cult of progress.
(no subject)
Date: 2020-10-16 06:20 am (UTC)I myself have had similar experiences with dating sites like the first commenters, that is, only a few messages, but no date. It is a quite laborious and not very pleasant task to sift through the profiles, which are often rather cookie-cutter. And then there is the fact that the dating scene online and offline has relentlessly been ever more commercialized during the last twenty years. I'm wondring how all of this will end.
good idea
Date: 2020-10-16 07:47 am (UTC)The biggest issue is that your fans are spread all over the world but that doesn't mean that friendships or love will not blossom. It would be good if it was a friendship as well as dating site as I think that would attract more people who may want to start Ecosophian potlucks in their neck of the woods.
As for Ecosophians having a "deviant identity" - well what's wrong with that? :)
Also there are thousands of dating sites out there that have been in business for a long time so whoever suggested "lawyering up" is being over-cautious. What do they expect - someone to sue JMG because they didn't find true love? lol
It would be good if someone could create a database of where we live, if we are interested in meeting up, age range, sex, marital status etc. so emails or dreamwidth messages could be exchanged. Also I don't believe there is that big of a gap between the numbers of male and female Ecosophians.
Finally, it's Venus' day. I presume you posted this during the hour of Venus?
Re: good idea
Date: 2020-10-16 05:48 pm (UTC)Re: good idea
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2020-10-19 10:45 pm (UTC) - ExpandRe: good idea
From:(no subject)
Date: 2020-10-16 08:55 am (UTC)If you do it, please don't make it just an USA thing. Allow for people around the world to join in.
Features that it should have... Nothing much, the basic is enough. A short description of each person, dreams, desires, projects, magical practices (if any), religion (if any), picture optional. A reasonable technical department.
What I strongly advise (and this is not paranoia, it is experience) is for regular screening for curses, spells and other noxious energies aimed at the site or it's users.
Whispers
(no subject)
Date: 2020-10-16 09:14 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2020-10-16 09:51 am (UTC)Ends, not Means
Date: 2020-10-16 11:09 am (UTC)Looking for someone to spend time with in person? You search for someone looking for the same and living near you.
Looking for conversation and starting a friendship regardless of location? You search for someone looking for the same who shares your interests.
Looking for someone to study a particular Path with you? You search for someone also on that Path.
The concerns of the first three commenters are noted and some could be ameliorated by 1)vetting applicants based on their Occult knowledge and 2)having a strict standard of behavior with decisive consequences. My Occult knowledge is still very basic, but I could pass a sniff test that the average pervy lurker or opportunistic prostitute would fail; and those that pass the sniff test but fail the courtesy test would be out on their rumps.
Would their be enough people to fill the virtual space, create a sense of choice, and offer a real chance of connection? I don't know.
I am reminded of the first internet chat rooms of the early 90's - just text, invite-only, with people who share a common interest dropping in to socialize, and occasional local meet-ups in public places. Then if someone wants to share their personal information (location, email address, photograph) they can send a private message and take on that responsibility as a consenting adult.
Hmm, the dream of being connected to others who share uncommon interests...
-Carnelian Nocturnal Platypus
Johny Applesead lesson.
Date: 2020-10-16 11:24 am (UTC)I deleted my comment about something like that working, since it occurred to me, that I was going in with a lot of prejudices.
Also being in a relationship I would not use such a site. But remembering, painfully, the battlefield of coupling I am very sympathetic. A noble undertaking, I wish you all the best.
I would be very interested in what YOU would come up with. I am not here to shoot down the idea, just thinking.
- Dating portals are not meant to help you find love, but to make a buck for the owner. What would an ethical portal look like?
- Second concern comes from my observations of the first Jonny Applesead post. The comments there were very geographically dispersed. Distance could be a problem.
But in the spirit passed down to us from the late ADR blog; I have a feeling that the answer might not be a site directly. How about an indirect question; How did occultists of ages past find partners? Or tackle the questions of relationships.
Humans being what they are, these problems are not something new. It would be an interesting topic. And I am not thinking about the great ones like Dion Fortune or Paschal Beverly Randolph. But the average Janes in DF's "outer court" as she liked to put it.
Best regards,
V
Re: Johny Applesead lesson.
Date: 2020-10-17 07:29 am (UTC)I was desperately single when first encountering the AD report, lurked trough the WoG and finally ended up here.
This stuff here helped me. I found my mate trough acquaintances, which I got by following lines of thought and habit that were introduced here. Our relationship start was “curious”, lets say curious, and again I fell back on lessons learned. And its been like that ever since.
Maybe a site is not what is needed. Maybe people would benefit from some sober relationship and search guides. Hmm. Or firstly just something to shine a light and help with the tangled mess of desires and misconceptions.
I liked the personal story of a lady searching for a traditional quiet man online. Down below.
Best regards,
V
Re: Johny Applesead lesson.
From:Success Story
Date: 2020-10-16 12:34 pm (UTC)My profile was brief and lighthearted, but it did mention I was a humanities grad student, so men knew I wasn't rich. I had very strong filters, and even then, I got a few messages per week of misspelled one-liners and men in marriages looking to cheat on their wives.
There is apparently a dating app that requires women to message men first. I think that is a fascinating idea, and one I would have tried.
At the end of my lighthearted profile, I ended up with a list designed to filter people down further. Practical things like he had to have a car and be willing to pay on our dates (I would gladly cook or bake for him in return). Emphasizing that I'm a bit traditional (aka I'm a bit submissive and looking for a strong man to protect me).
If we dated, I'd tell them I wanted to wait at least three months before sleeping together, so we'd date a lot first. (I kept ending up with men who just wanted sex and avoided talking about commitment as long as possible, then dumped me when I forced the conversation.) I made it very clear in my profile that I was looking for my husband.
In the end, I went digging and found him myself. Only a handful of photos, and one of them was with his mother and sister in front of the Christmas tree, sweaters, socks, big smiles. He didn't look like a faker. He looked like a simple and kind man. Even though he was nervous on our first date, I could tell he was genuine. I upped my game and sunk my claws in real fast.
I went looking for my husband online because I knew the kind of man I was attracted to likely couldn't be found at social events. I like calm and intelligent men who can communicate with close friends but (like me) don't get a thrill out of packed gatherings. My husband would sit at home reading Zhuangzi or the Silmarillion on a Friday night rather than going out in search of a woman. He thinks he could have easily gotten to forty unmarried, had I not found him (his profile was dormant on OKCupid).
Just my two cents.
Re: Success Story
Date: 2020-10-16 05:25 pm (UTC)Re: Success Story
From:(no subject)
Date: 2020-10-16 12:35 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2020-10-16 01:11 pm (UTC)My Reaction
Date: 2020-10-16 01:39 pm (UTC)Networks like that could have a byproduct of providing pools of potential dating partners, but since romance isn't the main purpose hopefully that minimizes some of the pitfalls and decreases the attractiveness to people with nefarious intentions. (The experience of churches and other groups shows that the prevalence of such people never goes to zero, unfortunately.)
Gender ratio
Date: 2020-10-16 01:54 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2020-10-16 01:57 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2020-10-16 02:20 pm (UTC)I don't think this is worth it. I think it's a great idea to let members of this unusual community socialize, in principle. By all means, have a weekly or monthly "Dating Open Post" where the singles can come out to play and chat and take things to private email if they click - a friend of mine is going on a date this week with a woman he met on a Facebook lockdown skeptics group - but a full blown dating site?
I don't think it is worth it. It's too far away from JMG's core skills, huge amount of time and hassle to run (I'm assuming there will be at least some kind of nominal monthly charge like other dating sites), all kinds of legal and compliance issues - it's not the kind of thing you do as a side project. On top of which I expect a significant gender skew etc which means people may not achieve much success.
(no subject)
Date: 2020-10-16 04:14 pm (UTC)—Lady CK
(no subject)
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2020-10-16 06:20 pm (UTC) - Expand(no subject)
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2020-10-16 11:26 pm (UTC) - ExpandHeat
Date: 2020-10-16 03:02 pm (UTC)If you make membership contingent upon paying a small monthly fee, recruit someone you trust to moderate discussions, since you are too busy to do the work yourself, and also have this little issue with mirror neurons to hinder your grasp of subtle signals of body language, then the privacy of discussion could foster an openness that is revealing of people's needs and frustrations that could be illuminating. You might also wish to have a clinical psychologist or social worker on call to provide behind-the-scenes advice for any seriously problematic isues such as parasuicidality or O/C aspects of sexuality that might arise in the course of frank conversation.
What I am saying is, if you play with fireflowers, expect to get blossom-burned. Keep hot pads and extinguishers ready to hand.
You could get a sense of how things might go by opening a trial discussion for free, but kept private, on the topic of hair. People have the most odd views on hair -- hair in every location -- from sink to sanctum -- and the results may surprise you.
Dating Site
Date: 2020-10-16 03:20 pm (UTC)My rationale here is that people interested in druidry, ecology and occultism will maybe anyways want ways to connect and find each other.
Because that's obviously more difficult than for people who like Online Gaming, Shopping, Football or any other much more common focus in their life.
I'll wager that mutual interests often leads to dating, but why narrow the scope on that? Not solely dating but also friendship or pen friendship is good.
My 2 cents..
Re: Dating Site
Date: 2020-10-17 05:34 pm (UTC)Please consider a networking site too.
Date: 2020-10-16 04:40 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2020-10-16 05:12 pm (UTC)My last girlfriend was a young activist, from a well know NGO with a name similar to a species of green lentils, fully dedicated to their agenda. I helped her as much as I could in her work, and I never said a word of criticism about her doings, but also I've never been much enthusiastic about her NGO or a mainstream environmental activism eaither. That was an unspoken problem in our relationship. It wasn't the main reason why be broke but, every time when I mentioned something like "renewable energy won't save the world" I saw a million miles blank stare, and I started to feel that a lack of my commitment to activism was a thing that started to frightened her.
Also because of You, and others, I started to be engaged in an appropriate technology revival movement in Europe (the Low-tech Magazine project), and also most of my friends show no interest in it, busy with their "change the system" agenda, leaving my literally alone in my doings.
So, thank you very much, dear JMG, for destroying my private. Maybe your dating site will pay for your sins :)
Sorry that I don't have any advice related to your questions but I don't use dating sites or apps. My friends, who use them, are saying that those site/apps are nowadays mostly inhabited my creeps, and because of that they are stopping using them and turning on to an "analogue" methods of looking for a partner.
PS: This evening I will burn a green candle and pray to Łada - Slavic goddess of love for help.
(no subject)
Date: 2020-10-17 06:11 am (UTC)(no subject)
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2020-10-17 08:55 am (UTC) - Expand(no subject)
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2020-10-18 09:45 am (UTC) - ExpandMy 47 cents worth
Date: 2020-10-16 05:41 pm (UTC)I would love an opportunity to meet other Ecosophians in my geographical region for a whole host of reasons. I think it would be fun to have a Wednesday night gathering to discuss the weekly blog post. I would like to form a barter network of trusted people. I have a ton of skills, and many needs, that I would be delighted to connect with people on. I would also be interested in a sort of tool-sharing library: I have a lot of books I would lend, also wool-processing equipment, really big dyepots, canning pots, a food dryer, sewing machines, just to name a few…….and I sometimes need big ladders, a table saw, or someone with a truck. I would like to trade any of my skills for some music lessons, etc. Some of the funnest times of my life have been participating in group projects like building houses, putting up a windmill, building trails in the forest, etc. Back in the day, when you were moving house, you just bought a lot of pizza and beer and called friends to help. Nobody does that any more. Let’s bring it back.
I don’t know what happened to the Green Wizards site, but it never really took off. So something different from that seems to be needed. I like the idea of using Dreamwidth, since it seems to be sheltered from a lot of the yuck on the internet. Some way of contacting other participants would be nice. I haven’t filled in my profile much but I think I’ll do that with more personal info.
Another thing that interests me is an astrology-based matchmaker. I think THAT would be a much more useful way to sort and match people. I would pay good money for someone who could do that. Let’s say there are 500 Ecosophians who are sincerely looking for a mate. After sorting for general categories like female looking for male, age range, and geographical range, then the astrologer would find several matches astrologically, based on birth charts (I am guessing since I am not a skilled astrologer.) That would be communicated to the relevant parties, and they could take it from there. I would love to try that (and I am willing to pay for it.)
So I would like both of those things: a way to network and befriend, meet, and share with other Ecosophians locally, and an astrological dating service. I am willing to put in time and energy to accomplish the first one, and I am willing to sign up and pay for the second!
Re: My 47 cents worth
Date: 2020-10-17 11:57 am (UTC)Dating
Date: 2020-10-16 06:32 pm (UTC)I think such a dating site would be a great help so people could find prospective partners who would not be put off by a different approach to spirituality. I should start such a dating site myself for rural agricultural people as they also have a hard time meeting people interested in our lifestyle. How about a mixed site where people could identify as Heathen, Country-life curious or whatever.
Maxine
Re: Dating
Date: 2020-10-17 05:32 am (UTC)