Magic Monday
Aug. 27th, 2023 11:11 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)

The picture? I've been tracing my lineages back as far as I can, and last week took my Martinist lineage back as far as they can be documented. The next step -- and it's the last step in the entire process -- involves a fair bit of speculation, but it's speculation backed up by some evidence. It's been suggested by some historians, Marsha Keith Schuchard foremost among them, that the mysterious Knight of the Red Feather who conferred the Templar lineage on Baron von Hund, last week's honoree, was none other than Charles Stuart, the Bonnie Prince Charlie of Scottish song and story. The claim is that in the years immediately before 1745, when the House of Stuart made its last (and disastrously unsuccessful) attempt to reclaim the British throne, Charles and his inner circle of supporters used various forms of clandestine Freemasonry to raise funds, engage in espionage, and gather arms and supporters for the planned rising. Baron von Hund's initiation was an incident in that process. Martinez de Pasqually, who was honored a couple of weeks back, also claimed to have a charter signed by Charles Stuart as the basis for his occult Masonic order. So it's possible that what lies behind one of the great traditions of Western occultism is a failed political intrigue that got picked up and repurposed by a couple of canny occultists. Stranger things have happened in the history of occultism.
...And with this, the rambling tale of the odd lineages that I've inherited comes to an end. Now I'll have to think of something else to use as illustrations to Magic Mondays!
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***This Magic Monday is now closed. See you next week!***
***Please note -- when Magic Monday is closed, IT'S CLOSED. I just had to delete a flurry of attempted comments posted up to eleven hours after I shut things down. I do need some time to write and do other online chores, you know, so please don't keep trying to post after 12:00 am Monday night/Tuesday morning -- there'll be a new Magic Monday in a week, you know. ***
(no subject)
Date: 2023-08-28 01:49 pm (UTC)1.) There are some Orthodox Christians around here, right? And Roman Catholics? How do you reconcile your interest in the occult (in reading about it, if not practicing magic) with the general church prohibitions against any involvement in it? Do you confess about it? What responses have you gotten?
2.) This is tangential but separate, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, JMG...I've been thinking a lot about usury. Usury was seen as completely evil and sinful, and heavily forbidden by the church until a few centuries ago. Lots of examples of this in the Bible, and the condemnation of moneylending with interest also appears in Islam (among other religions). However, over the past two centuries, discussion of usury in the West has basically vanished. I would guess that in a random sampling of 100, fewer than 20 would even know how to define the word, and maybe only a few more could describe why it is considered bad. The understanding of usury as evil has really vanished completely from the discourse of our culture, too, to the extent that feels...well, like an enchantment. It's just really VANISHED in a way I find suspiciously like a kind of purposeful magic. Do priests even preach about it? Are bankers and people working in finance expected to confess their role in usury?
Any thoughts on why (and how) the concept disappeared so thoroughly? I find it strange.
(no subject)
Date: 2023-08-28 03:52 pm (UTC)Ceremonial magic like JMG does is a line I’m not willing to cross. I probably wouldn’t be any good at it anyway, since Sonkitten wouldn’t understand—“MOM! What’s this big circle of candles doing in the basement?” Some well-known Christians such as Dion Fortune have felt differently (about ceremonial magic, that is, not about the propensity of kids to interrupt whatever you’re doing with thousands of questions). Historically churches have frowned on it, although these days I would not be surprised if some of the liberal Protestant churches are holding classes in it. 😄
I found JMG through a link. Like the elephant’s child, we kittens are insatiably curious, so here I am!
—Princess Cutekitten
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Date: 2023-08-28 01:49 pm (UTC)Lately I been interested in enochian magic and I'm interested what is your opinion on this branch of magic?
(no subject)
Date: 2023-08-28 06:55 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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From:John Dee
From:Re: John Dee
From:Re: John Dee
From:Bodily affects
Date: 2023-08-28 02:47 pm (UTC)0) I’m fond of the quote “as your island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of your ignorance.” I’ve found this to be a correlate for magical practice: whenever I make a leap into an awareness or feeling of greater connection, perception, or power, reliably it follows that I can see new limitations and flaws within myself and often there quickly follows a humbling experience of something that puts my “ability” into perspective. So, as my tree of magic grows, so does the forest of the cosmos.
1) Is there a floor sitting position that is friendly to discursive meditation? Or, would some form of cross legged be ok within CGD, because of the solar energy focus? If not, I will keep on with the chair.
2) Once I do my opening LRP and establish space, is there any protocol for respecting the space established? As a hangover from some neopagan groups I worked with in the past, I’m hesitant to “break the circle,” but perhaps that’s a useful awareness. So, if someone approaches, or there is a reason (rare) that I need to leave the space, should I open it and recluse it somehow, or start over the working when I return?
3a) I occasionally have an experience of feeling swollen while doing ritual work; not normal swollen, but like my body, or parts of it, are hugely larger than my frame with a “taut” feeling to my skin and to the outer edge of my larger, perceived body. Do you or any of the commentariat have experience with this? If so, what is your understanding of it?
3b) I’ve wondered if the body dysmorphia described above is a sense of my astral body, but when I divine on the subject it seems to suggest that it’s actually some sort of function of my mental sheath when influenced by external spiritual force. I’m trying to wrap my head around it… any thoughts?
4) I’ve used muscle testing for a few years now (the leaning from where I fall forward or backward in response to questions.) I’ve been using it lately post mediation and prayer while still in ritual setting, similar to divination, but closer to pendulum work than cards/sticks/runes. In this setting I'm getting much more specific movements than just forward and back, even to the point of being shifted into different postures. Do you believe this is a beneficial way to pursue greater understanding, and is there anything I should be aware of (or wary of) while pursuing it?
Votes for next set of MM images:
-Various elemental symbol systems and their origins.
-Current heads of the various organizations you’ve had a hand in. (I.e. a brief intro, with or without picture, of the leadership of Druidical GD, AODA, Order of Essenses, etc.)
-Temples you’ve studied.
-A brief lineage of Arthurian mythology or authors, or a lineage of Merlin myths or authors
Thank you as always for this space and your thoughts.
Re: Bodily affects
Date: 2023-08-28 06:58 pm (UTC)2) A brief interruption isn't a problem -- just go on with the working. With anything that distracts you thoroughly from the work, though, it's best to start over from the beginning.
3) Fascinating. No, I haven't encountered that before and am not sure what to make of it.
4) I know people who get excellent results from it, but it's not something I can do at all well. Maybe someone else can suggest something.
Re: Bodily affects
From:Re: Bodily affects
From:What's in a name?
Date: 2023-08-28 02:58 pm (UTC)I suppose my question is, if names have power, did calling myself "Epileptic Doomer" give the disease and my depressive/doomerish tendencies more power over me? I'm thinking maybe it did, but I wonder what the occult tradition has to say about that.
I recall from your numerology posts that you chose to write under John Michael Greer as opposed to J.M. Greer, John Greer, or some other combination because the name number was more auspicious that way. My intuition is that a name with clear meaning can have even stronger influence than that, and is worth choosing with some care. On the other hand, the cosmic oom grants us names with zero care and we're all fine with that here. So. What is in a name?
--Pallid Maniacal Paramecium
Re: What's in a name?
Date: 2023-08-28 07:00 pm (UTC)- Psychedelic Crunchy Centipede
Re: What's in a name?
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From:Cabala
Date: 2023-08-28 03:05 pm (UTC)Re: Cabala
Date: 2023-08-28 08:53 pm (UTC)2) The Origins of the Kabbalah by Gershom Scholem, the most widely respected historian of the Cabala. This book proves that the Cabala wasn't originally Jewish -- they got it from the Gnostics. You might also point your friend to this, to start looking up the Chinese version of the same thing:
https://www.goldenelixir.com/taoism/taiji_tu.html
Re: Cabala
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From:A case of magical manipulation?
Date: 2023-08-28 04:44 pm (UTC)I’m curious about what I think could possibly be a case of malign supernatural influence over a person.
Some years ago, a friend of mine worked at a company I’ll call ACo. The CEO of ACo, Annette, hired a consulting company I’ll call ConCo to revamp some elements of ACo’s business. ConCo’s contributions started out small but they were deft self-promoters and they were quickly hired to conduct more and more of ACo’s business operations.
Only problem is, ConCo was completely out of their depth and had no idea what they were doing. They promised to improve the existing processes but in practice what they put into place was completely dysfunctional and caused ACo to fall more and more behind in their tasks.
The strange thing was that Annette became their biggest cheerleader and defended them to the hilt even in the face of these continued failures. She was known before for her shrewdness but became utterly irrational and would hear nothing bad about ConCo. This continued until she retired with ACo reduced to a shadow of its former self, still operating but shrunk by more than half. My friend and many others were fired as a cost-cutting measure in the face of the “improved” business processes and much of the company’s foundational cumulative knowledge is now gone.
I don’t often run to supernatural explanations for day-to-day events but in retrospect Annette’s total loss of reason makes me wonder if ConCo was working some kind of dark magic on her. She gained nothing from letting them run the company into the ground and rather lost standing and status in her business community.
Could they have been bribing her? At one time, Annette purchased a gift for the ConCo CEO’s wife and then profusely apologized when it turned out to be the wrong size or something and replaced it with something more to her liking. This kind of devotion seems to eclipse standard corruption as a motive. They were practically leading her around on a leash. She openly told people working with her that “I drank the Kool-Aid.” There were a few people within ACo who were favored by ConCo but many more were harmed by the association with them, including many of Annette’s most trusted staff so I don’t think she favored them so much because of internal politics.
Does this account resemble any cases you know of magical manipulation of people? You’ve written many times that the use of evil magic tends to cause people to lose the ability to think clearly. Thanks for your time.
Re: A case of magical manipulation?
Date: 2023-08-28 08:55 pm (UTC)Re: A case of magical manipulation?
From:(no subject)
Date: 2023-08-28 05:09 pm (UTC)Less of a question than a note: Reading New Seeds of Contemplation (thanks for the recommendation!) and finding Merton referring to the mask/persona-like nature of our everyday "selves." What strikes me is how similar this language is to Watts's interpretation of Vedanta. Not sure if one influenced the other (it seems like Seeds was published earlier than Watts's work, but who knows) but interesting nonetheless.
While looking into this, came across a title from Watts on polarity, The Two Hands of God. Not one that I'd read before, but wondering if you have?
Axé
(no subject)
Date: 2023-08-28 08:55 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2023-08-28 05:10 pm (UTC)I feel very sad for our country, which despite our many flaws and failures to live up to its ideals, has been a special place for many centuries. I can't shake the feeling we're going down an ominous path here, a turning point toward a more tyrannical future that may last many decades.
(no subject)
Date: 2023-08-28 08:57 pm (UTC)(no subject)
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2023-08-28 09:44 pm (UTC) - ExpandRemote gifts
Date: 2023-08-28 05:23 pm (UTC)In my spare time I like to tinker and build, with wood and stone as it turned out. This lends itself well to making talismans. I have already made several pieces inspired by your DMH. I usually use local quarz or some wood laying around in the workshop. I am but up until now all the pieces have been for my personal use and the making was relatively simple. Source, construct, take toothed groove, consecrate and use. But right now I am building my first piece for a dear friend. A general use magic talisman with an inscription, like a dedication, on it. There are right now two questions going trough my mind.
1. the friend is overseas and the item will have to be sent by mail. I was considering blessing and packing it in silk + a small oak box (hand made) all within a standard postal package. Is such packaging viable? And to your knowledge would it encounter any difficulties with customs?
2. a friend has expressed interest of giving her good wishes to the gift. The problem is she lives abroad and contact is difficult. But could we do it remotely. Could I, when it is ready, use the dedication symbol (consisting of a plant and a sign) in my own blessing to ask a goddess to bless the talisman and allow others who want to join in to give their blessing as well. Could she then open her own space, concentrate on the symbol and give her blessing as well?
Best regards,
V
Re: Remote gifts
Date: 2023-08-28 08:58 pm (UTC)Re: Remote gifts
From:Re: Remote gifts
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From:(no subject)
Date: 2023-08-28 05:27 pm (UTC)I have a working in mind following the formula from the Druid Magic Handbook. I've meditated on my intention several times and changed the wording because of that. I cast a fortunate divination for the working and plan to proceed today.
My question to you is do I need to do the working only once, or can it be repeated? I would guess the benefit of repeated workings is it sets the intention more firmly in the wider world, but perhaps I'm wrong.
Thank you,
Tim PW
(no subject)
Date: 2023-08-28 08:58 pm (UTC)Progressed Chart Astrological Magic
Date: 2023-08-28 05:48 pm (UTC)Also, in general, is the natal chart or the progressed chart a more significant force in one's daily life?
Re: Progressed Chart Astrological Magic
Date: 2023-08-28 08:59 pm (UTC)Storied Meditations
Date: 2023-08-28 06:05 pm (UTC)This morning I decided to try a little something different, a visualization technique which I had read about but not done much with, in my meditation. What happened was after waking up this morning I was experimenting with projecting images on a screen with my inner vision.
The bright colors, dynamic scenery and people, and relative ease of seeing all of this was pretty encouraging. So during meditation I began projecting the theme onto the screen. There was little expectation as to what would appear, I just witnessed what was showing up. The quality was lacking in color and light but there were images and objects.
One of these images in particular was a great illustration of the theme! Not directly but certainly symbolically. I then used that image as a way to understand the theme. Up to this point I had found the experience quite a lot of fun.
The next part though really got my attention. I was inspired to, I don't know how to say this but, allow a story to unfold in the image. At which point the image became a scene where things were happening.
As the story unfolded I was able to get a deeper meaning out of the image. While I did ask questions it seemed witnessing the story was all that was needed to gather the meaning.
Feels like a there might be a door or two to go through and explore! Would I be too far off to think there are a few fun possibilities to experiment with here?
Thanks,
Eric
Re: Storied Meditations
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Date: 2023-08-28 06:17 pm (UTC)I have two questions for you this week.
1. The planetary tides are usually tracked by the planetary hours of traditional astrology. Is there a similar means or system to track the elemental tides, allowing one to determine which of the four elements prevails at any given moment?
2. The LBRP is used to trace a protective circle around the magician. In this connection, many authors give a word of caution to the magician, saying that they are not to cross the bounds of the circle at the risk of weakening their own belief in its reality. My question is: what is the magician supposed to do at the end of a ritual, as leaving the ritual space will necessarily entail the crossing of the circle?
Thank you as ever for your anwers!
(no subject)
Date: 2023-08-28 09:04 pm (UTC)2) You left out part of the injunction: "for the duration of the working." Obviously mages step out of the circle once the working is finished -- it's that or starve to death!
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From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2023-08-28 10:06 pm (UTC) - ExpandQs
Date: 2023-08-28 06:48 pm (UTC)They believe that we are trapped by "archons" in the samsara cycle via reincarnation, and these "spirits" feed off our emotions, and therefore want to keep us here. They play up (as actors) the roles of gods etc to feed the narrative delusion etc.
They even believe there is a direct way to not reincarnate after death by using specific gates to exit from lower realms (in this framework, the while light is a trap that keeps the reincarnation cycle going, and you're supposed to find a different gate to exit without being reborn). In this scheme, rebirth is optional and the spiritual tradition is mostly a vehicle to keep us trapped.
Would like to hear your take on these ideas, if (and why) they're wrong, and how they relate to the previous gnostic traditions etc.
Re: Qs
Date: 2023-08-28 09:08 pm (UTC)Re: Qs
From: (Anonymous) - Date: 2023-08-29 02:23 am (UTC) - ExpandDruid Pathworking Questions
Date: 2023-08-28 06:57 pm (UTC)I've been working my through the COGD curriculum and have two questions that I was hoping you could answer for me.
1. In the Bardic pathworkings in CGD, one conducts the summoning ritual of the pentagram for the appropriate element to help establish a connection with that element in its inner grove. In the Druidical grade pathworkings, there is no mention of doing the pentagram rituals in each grove. Is it unnecessary because all of the connections have already been established by the round of Bardic pathworking?
2. In the Bardic pathworkings, the locations of the dolmens correspond to the directions based on the elemental cross; the altar cloths and veils reflect this as well. In the Druidical pathworkings, things are then meant to represent the tree of life, so dolmen locations change. Is it feasible and/or advisable to use the sphere colors rather than the elemental ones for the altar cloths and veils for Druid grade pathworkings?
Many thanks.
Re: Druid Pathworking Questions
Date: 2023-08-28 09:09 pm (UTC)Occult history
Date: 2023-08-28 07:07 pm (UTC)Re: Occult history
Date: 2023-08-28 09:12 pm (UTC)Choosing a system
Date: 2023-08-28 07:09 pm (UTC)I'm having real trouble choosing a system to start studying and practicing.
A few things I need to have clarified I guess:
1. Last week you clarified that the Celtic Golden Dawn is a straight up magical system, and the AODA for example is not strictly magical, but can have magical elements using your Druid Magic Handbook. What are the advantages and disadvantages of each system?
2. I'm now looking into your Golden Section system. How does that differ, besides not being Druidic?
3. Any suggestions for criteria to help me choose a system?
I guess I have extreme decision fatigue. Thanks for your reply in advance, I'm sure you've written about this before but it is hard to find!
Re: Choosing a system
Date: 2023-08-28 09:15 pm (UTC)1) No system of training is perfect, and no system of training will suit you perfectly.
2) You still have to choose one; so
3) Choose one, now. Flip a coin, if you have to, but make the choice and stick with it no matter what for at least one year.
This is a serious matter. You are face to face with one of the tests that will determine whether or not you make magic part of your life. The only way to fail the test is to keep dithering; the only way to pass it is to make the choice and stick to it.
Re: Choosing a system
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From:John Gilbert
Date: 2023-08-28 07:31 pm (UTC)Thanks for sharing all of John Gilbert's work, it is fantastic! For the past few months I have been working my way through all of his various traditions (FHR, UGC, MOE, OSA) since they're all interconnected. So my 3 questions are focused on that:
1) Is there more information or other books on the wheel of life as presented in John Gilbert's Tree of Spirit book. For some reason it make so much more sense to me than the traditional tree of life.
2) Angels! In the FHR there is only a brief mention of Archangels listed by name but no directions or instruction on how or when we work with them. As apart of my FHR reading work I've selected Damien Echols' book on Angels and Archangels. Would it be fine to invoke the archangels in my SoP instead of deity names or is that too much like the LBRP? Is this book compatible with the FHR work?
3) Thank you for uploading the voice recording of John Gilbert's MOE lectures. Will the recording of him giving the apprentice attunement work or do I need to schedule it with a Master Teacher?
Thanks in advance!
Re: John Gilbert
Date: 2023-08-28 09:24 pm (UTC)2) That's a bit too much like the LBRP. I'd encourage you to stick with the FHR work as given until you reach the Initiate grade; at that point, you'll have the background you need to experiment with angel workings.
3) You need an attunement from a living master teacher. I'll be scheduling another of those in September, and will announce it on this journal; stay tuned.
(no subject)
Date: 2023-08-28 08:18 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2023-08-28 09:25 pm (UTC)Usury
Date: 2023-08-28 08:29 pm (UTC)This is helpful since I am working on new banking and lending ideas. The interesting point is that lending with interest is okay if its secured by collateral; it is personal liability lending that is a sin.
This makes sense because this type of lending is predatory even today, and is structurally based on investors/lenders finding people or business opportunities with poor credit quality, and lending to them while destroying their lives if they aren't able to pay.
Re: Usury
Date: 2023-08-28 09:25 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2023-08-28 08:36 pm (UTC)What's the difference between intuition and clairvoyance?
Thank you for this forum, by the way!
(no subject)
Date: 2023-08-28 10:34 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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From:Next year's solar eclipses
Date: 2023-08-28 09:19 pm (UTC)Re: Next year's solar eclipses
Date: 2023-08-28 09:27 pm (UTC)Bestiary
Date: 2023-08-28 09:21 pm (UTC)It would immensely be fun to see pictures of and small blurbs describing cryptids, those wonderful crossover animals from beastiaries, or Egyptian equivalents like the sphinx in the magic Mondays...
Re: Bestiary
Date: 2023-08-28 09:27 pm (UTC)Bardon
Date: 2023-08-28 09:28 pm (UTC)Re: Bardon
Date: 2023-08-28 09:32 pm (UTC)