ecosophia | Magic Monday

Good Evening,

As many of us bring our summers to a close, I hope you find chances to enjoy friends, lovely places, and any flexibility you can find in your work schedule.

To Share: I'm still working through Maria Kvilhaug's /Seed of Yggdrasill/, but we had a trip with friends this week, so instead of keeping on with my review just yet, I have a collection of some Heathen prayers I say most every day. As always, I welcome hearing how this might be helpful to you, or what works for you in the same ballpark: https://jpowellrussell.com/#a_few_daily_prayers

To Ask: For JMG and the commentariat: has anyone come across comparative treatments of the Persephone and similar myths? For example, in Germanic myth, some folks like Maria Kvilhaug have compared the myth of Idhunna's capture by Thjazi to Hades taking Persephone. If anyone has come across a discussion of similar possible parallels, most of all if it's more wide-ranging than only Persephone to one other myth, I'd be very thankful for a pointer to it. Linked to this, even a good discussion of the Persephone myth alone would be great.

As always, thanks very much to JMG and everyone else here for all that you do.

To any who will have them, I put forth my blessings and best wishes,
Jeff

I'll have to hand this one over to the commentariat, as I haven't done that much with comparative mythology.

Ah, too bad - I had hoped that you had come across some stuff in your research for The Ceremony of the Grail, given some of your comments in podcasts about links with the Eleusinian Mysteries. Thanks anyhow, and hopefully some others will have some thoughts to share,

Cheers,
Jeff

I've been looking into this after I got side-tracked on my original research on the radiotechnology component of the grail myth. There's a bunch of fascinating articles by a Russian scientist and Egyptologist Scariatin "Enel", who undertook work in the 30s and 40s on the Egyptian Mysteries. The links to those papers disappeared some months ago, but I was lucky enough to download them. My take is that the Eleusinian mysteries are a survivor of the Egyptian mysteries, and the Egyptian mysteries themselves came from a much older culture that perhaps originally developed the temple technology. These are the mysteries that Herodotus was initiated into, and of which "he said no more".

The Egyptian version has a fascinating account of pyramid grain, with substantial powers. That's where I clicked on the link to the grail, as otherwise, the concept of a "grail" at least as found in northern European accounts, is absent.

I'd be fascinated to read those papers. It's quite plausible that the Eleusinian mysteries might have come from Egypt -- the contributions of Egypt to archaic Greek culture are considerable, and usually downplayed by Western scholars.

They are out of copyright, or not ever sure they were in copyright so I can send them to you. What email address is best?

Post a comment here marked NOT FOR POSTING with an email address you use, and I'll contact you with (and from) an appropriate address.

Jeff,

You might check out "The Dream and the Underworld" by the late Jungian psychologist James Hillman if you haven't already. I'm not sure if that's exactly what you want, but he gets into various myths of the underworld as he uses it to explore dream interpretation and the like. It's a short volume.

Best of luck with your quest.

Justin Patrick Moore

Thanks very much for this! That sounds promising.

I don't have specific comparative sources for you, but the comparisons I have read in the past have been to other myths about goddesses descending to the underworld and returning.

The best known of these is the Sumerian myth of the Descent of Inanna. Samuel Noah Kramer was (I believe) the first scholar to translate it into English. I just did a search and found translations and summaries of it online. I recommend reading at least part of a translation in order to get an experience of Sumerian poetic style.

There is a Wiccan myth of this kind, first published in Witchcraft Today by Gerald B. Gardner in 1954. Here is a good link to the text with some explanatory notes https://www.ceisiwrserith.com/wicca/legendofthedescent.htm

Gardner wrote that he did not know the source or how old it is. One of my teachers has a theory that it, or its earlier source, is a Neoplatonic allegory about the soul's journey.

Careful study of Gardner's oldest surviving handwritten book of texts of "The Wica" (as he called the Witches he encountered) shows that parts--including the three degree rituals--of it were carefully copied by him from a somewhat earlier manuscript in another person's (Dafo's) calligraphic handwriting. This manuscript has the title "Ye Bok of ye Art Magical," and Gardenr seems to have begun his work on it sometime in the middle 1940s. "Inanna's Descent" was available in modern translations (in fragments) from Assyrian and Sumerian from 1914 onward, so Gardner's text could easily have been inspired by the ancient text.

I was just about to say the Descent of Inanna...although she goes of her own accord and by her own agency, rather than being abducted.

Thanks for this - I hadn't thought about Inanna, since as Illyria2001 pointed out it lacks the abduction part, and also since I was focusing on Indo-European myths. That being said, casting a wider net might turn up some interesting stuff.

And I really wouldn't have thought of a Gardnerian Wiccan myth, so thanks for that as well!

Hello Jeff! Thanks for getting my brain thinking about this.
Ok, in the Ramayana, Sita is abducted by the demon king of Lanka, Ravana. Lord Rama is assisted in her rescue by his devotee Hanuman.
Hanuman!!

::Facepalm:: I was thinking to myself "man, I wish I knew Indian myth well enough to know what a likely parallel might be there" and I didn't think about Ravana at all, despite the fact that I played Ravana in a video my friends and I made for a high school world history assignment.

Thank you very much for pointing that out!
Jeff

Glad it helped! I always enjoy your comments. And how great is it that JMG created this wonderful platform for our exchange.

Jill C

I am making my JMG book collection available by mail to anyone in the continental US:

https://kimberlysteele.dreamwidth.org/96400.html

Good Evening JMG,

I recently had a rather vivid dream where I think I may have been visited by a goddess or other powerful female/feminine entity. This involved the most beautiful music I ever "heard" (rather lucidly); female choral singing with some exotic-sounding stringed instrumentation that followed later. "She" didn't appear in any sort of anthropomorphic form, just as a hexagram of blazing/brilliant white and golden light with a blue sky in the background.

1. I know dream interpretation isn't your thing, so I won't ask for that. My first question is that do you know of any goddess who uses such a symbol or anything like that as her calling card? Of course I open this up to the commentariat if you've never heard of or seen a blazing hexagram or choral singing associated with a goddess.

2. Is performing SOP silently any less powerful than doing so while sounding the words out loud? While doing it silently I'm still doing all the hand gestures and directional positioning normally, and of course visualizing everything as instructed.

-Cyan Truculent Possum

1) Choral singing seems to be pretty common in divine manifestations. As for the hexagram on a blue sky background, that's a solar symbol in Western occult tradition, so you may be dealing with a sun goddess.

2) It's less powerful, because the vibration gives it additional power all the way down to the material plane. Still, if you need to do it silently for some reason, that's still effective -- you'll just have to work a little harder to make it equally effective.

Good morning Sir and Druid.

Two questions:
1) Have you looked into the Mormon temples and their suitability or not with regards to the temple technology principles?

2) Several months ago, there was discussion on the topic of Ganesha being described as a child God. That stirred up memories of Christmas time novenas, wherein The Child God was the main focus of both the novena prayers and the carols. While titular Child God is implied to be Jesus, the Ganesha discussion highlighted the ambiguity of the title and opened up the question of which Child God is being referenced. This was in South America, so there is a grain of syncretic salt (just as the large numbers of Virgins of _____ that seem to abound in these regions) to consider. Apart from Ganesha, what other gods are there that can be described as child gods?

1) No, and that's a fascinating question. I assume the Mormons aren't public about the inner dimension of their temple workings, so I'm not sure how much I could find out, but if the opportunity presented itself I'd certainly look into it.

2) There are quite a few of them. In ancient Egypt, the child Horus, also known as Harpocrates, was a focus of worship, for example, and the Hindu god Krishna is often worshiped in child form. The Chinese protective god Nezha is always seen as a child.

From a very lapsed Mormon; if there is a new one going up in your area, you can visit new temples before they are dedicated or older ones that are being rededicated and get an idea of their structure during a kind of open house walk through. Some of the older ones are very beautiful, the more modern ones are what you might expect and rather spare and bland. I suspect that when the first Salt Lake temple is rededicated,(it has been under construction for earthquake resistant modifications for the last few years) the line to view it will be miles long or you will have to make reservations.

Thanks for this!

Just my two cents as a current "Endowed" member of the LDS church:

1) I can only speak in limited terms regarding temples built by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS) which is the largest group related to the all-encompassing academic term "Mormonism".

Temples built by the LDS church are very different from one another structurally. There are a few that are the same or at least similar, but they are generally designed to "match" the environment they are built in aesthetically. Some blend in (sort of) and some are meant to stand out visually.

The rituals practiced in all of them are the same. The promised blessings from temple worship lean very heavily to the after-life, not so much on the "here and now" or promises of physical health/wealth. The only things that cannot be discussed are the "Signs, Tokens, & Names" received by initiates because they make an oath to not reveal them. The LDS church has recently become much more open about the rituals and clothing regarding temple worship.

Joseph Smith was a Master Mason (raised questionably fast) and it is pretty well documented that the ceremonies are based loosely on some of the Masonic ceremonies of the 19th century, but the meanings and promises made, especially currently, are very different. This may or may not be helpful to you JMG.

The main common features are:
1. Extreme attention to "perfection" in details in construction/symmetry and the adornments/decorations. A best attempt to simulate "Heaven" on earth.
2. A baptismal font that is below earth level and surrounded by 12 oxen(statues).
3. A main room or multiple larger rooms to perform the "Endowment" ceremony, and other smaller rooms to perform "Washing & Anointing", "Sealing", and other ritual ordinances. These all differ in size and adornment depending on the particular temple.
4. As mentioned earlier, the ceremonies and rituals are all identical no matter in which temple they are performed.

More in depth history/info on the rituals here: http://www.ldsendowment.org/why.html
Basic google searches can get most other info.

I will see if I can find anything on the actual temple architecture that might be significant in relation to the temple technology being discussed. I think that the Navoo, Salt Lake City, and Logan temples might be of the most interest. My initial thought is that no, there is nothing along those lines that might be helpful, but one never knows.

Regards,
Bert

This is very helpful. The rituals aren't something I have any business poking my nose into, of course -- as a Freemason (among other things), I recognize the importance of keeping certain things private! The temple tradition I explore in my book The Secret of the Temple focuses mostly on the architecture, though incense (or other sources of volatile oils in the air) and music also plays a role in it. I'd be very interested to hear a Mormon take on the temple tradition as I've outlined it -- if that amounts to "no, that's not like anything we're into," that's also a data point.

JMG,

I think based on what I remember of your book, it's been a hot minute since I've read it, that there is not much that is similar to that specific temple technology. I think the varied architecture used precludes any relevant insight. As far as I know our altars do not go any deeper than the floor, as an example.

We don't use any incense and it wouldn't be able to drift out of the temple into the surrounding area even if we did, at least not without being pushed out through the AC.

When oil is used it is a seriously minimal amount. A few drops at most and it is not fragrant.

While there is speaking/prayers/singing, they are short and not repetitive (chanting or extended singing) in the same way that other traditions might be.

I think if we (LDS) somehow had the ancient temple technology secrets, they are not currently employed in any significant way when taking your research into account. To me the main goals of each are pointed in different productive directions. But that is just one person's opinion.

Regards,
Bert

Thank you! All of that's valuable data.

The baptismal font surrounded by oxen reminds me of the "Sea" in Solomon's Temple in the Bible (Book of Kings).
I wonder how much else of LDS temple construction takes a lead from the OT.

- Cicada Grove

Thank you for the information.

I was going to comment that in Salt Lake City, the Visitor's Center (?) just south of the Temple had a cut away model of the temple but when I went to the satellite image to double check, it seems that the whole area is under renovation and construction, to include the Temple. Seems the Visitor's Center has been torn down (I visited 2017, satellite image says 2023).

I don't have a picture of the model but even better:

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/scaled-model-provides-salt-lake-temple-open-house-experience

I was also going to recommend a visit but I'm not sure if the current construction would take away from a visit. When done, should be nice and worth the visit.

The grounds around the temple were beautiful, the Visitor's Center interesting and even more so the History of the Church museum on the opposite side of the temple/ tabernacle. Stop by the Joseph Smith Memorial building next door for a view and a feed at the Nauvoo.

Salt Lake City is a long way from Rhode Island! Still, thanks for the info.

Have you seen the latest china news . They have insulted another god. If you see the pathway of the taifun that hit Beijing area avoiding Taiwan that would have weakened the taifun and hitting full force in the North. It is brutal to watch floods partially done by the government but partially by some really angry deity. Apparently the temple of the storm dragon and its son's was spared.

Also another god has made itself known of this age perkunas i think

When a totem pole mysteriously appeared on a popular coastal path in south-east England.
The 8ft (2.4-metre) wooden pole, erected on the clifftops on the North Downs Way in Kent, between Folkestone and Dover, has particularly provoked interest for its inscription with the name Perkūnas, the Baltic god of thunder.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/aug/09/mystery-totem-pole-appears-on-coastal-path-in-south-east-england

The council in all its wisdom wants to demolish it because no permit.

1) No surprises there. Atheist governments may need to rethink their beliefs.

2) No, I hadn't heard of that! And Perkunas, too -- translate that as Perun, Thor, Thunor, and (just possibly) Bran, and you've got a very ancient and widespread deity. (I tend to think of Bran and Beli, the archaic pair of quarreling deities from Celtic antiquity, as cognates of Perun and Velezh, who had the same role among the Slavs.)

But a proper government is supposed to be atheistic. If a government chooses one religion over the others, the people of minority religions, nonbelievers and occultists will inevitably face discrimination. I'm not a fan of China's totalitarian regime, but a religious regime is not a good alternative in its stead.

It's a false binary to assume that a government has to be either atheistic or dogmatically religious. The middle ground is a government that sustains freedom of religion, and neither favors any one religion over any other nor puts barriers in the way of religious practice -- you know, like the United States had until quite recently.

And of course you can official religion(s) with others also enjoying a great deal of freedom.

Do you think the gods will eventually end the CCP and possibly prevent an invasion of Taiwan, or failing that prevent a CCP victory?

It depends on what the gods choose to do. I don't have access to their discussions.

This is true and if you ever do [insert lottery numbers joke here.]

On the Perkūnas pole see now the good short article by Francis Young:

https://drfrancisyoung.com/2023/08/10/talking-perkunas-on-bbc-today/

Having grown in an mostly atheist civilization I didn't know the importance of considering the gods in the material plane. Until early this year when the priest that did offerings to the Popocatepetl volcano in Mexico wasn't allowed to do it by the government --a few months later there was an earthquake and a considerable eruption...

To me that is a godpole, not a "totem pole." Godpoles appear in Germanic, Norse and Slavic traditions; a great many contemporary Heathens carve and set up godpoles on their land or at their Moot grounds. I was not aware of the Baltic tradition until now, but in just a cursory web search I've seen some very impressive work, so thanks for the reference, Anon!

--Sister Crow

- I've been doing the DMH Grail working for about a year. The Cauldron of the Moon is linked to intuition. Does the Grail working interfere in any way with the intuition exercise in John Gilbert's book The Doors of Tarot?

- In The Sanctified Life document you posted in the UGC posts, on page 7 at the bottom, there is the quote below. Is that meditation technique described the same thing as mindfulness meditation?

"...begin by directing unceasing efforts to keeping the mind free of attachment to any specific idea, concept, or exercise, even while actively engaged in its practice. Strive to exist solely in the moment, in God—every act, every thought, an offering to God—letting the past, the future, the “10,000 things” take care of themselves. Endeavor to maintain as pure a state of objectivity as possible, observe each and every thing around and within, tangible and intangible, animate and inanimate, with equal care and thoroughness, yet cling to nothing. As various thoughts, emotions, and sensations manifest themselves, examine them, trace each to its source, but allow no opinion, no prejudice, no preference to take root."

Thank you!

1) Not at all.

2) That I can't tell you. I'm not a specialist in either mindfulness meditation or mysticism.

Thanks!

One thing I am finding a little confusing, after finishing the structured practices of one of your books (the DMH), is deciding how to learn from different spiritual courses or practices. For example, the different styles of meditation. I do the discursive meditation practice you describe, and also John Gilbert's intuition exercise I asked about. But I've read about a different type of meditation practice in Evelyn Underhill's Practical Mysticism and another in The Sanctified Life, all which are of great interest to me. But then there are the warnings I've read about doing mindfulness meditation.

So more generally, can you safely do different styles of meditation per day?

This last paragraph does not soud to me like mindfulness meditation at all. What you describe is basically to leave aside all everyday concerns and *focus* on God in the here and now, and to be aware of the presence of God in every and all things in Creation. It is NOT said aloud in the text but,- if you know your way around traditional Christian literature,- there's an implicit understanding that this is a prelude to Worship/Adoration!

Disclaimer: never bothered with Mindfullness Meditation, but. From what I have talked with a practicioner that came to me after I had voiced my concerns about the practice being uprooted from their Buddhist origins; what beginners are asked to concentrate on is on their own sensations and their own physical body, and to be aware that this is not reallity but sensation.

Based on the above, I'd say this practice is to Mindfulness (TM) more or less what love-making is to masturbation.

Thank you! Prompted by your post, I did a little reading into what mindful meditation is, and I see the distinction now. I had partially forgotten that the criticism of mindfulness meditation include that it is a technique removed from the spiritual background that it is meant to connect to.

Request of JMG: Could you please delete my previous submission? I submitted it before realizing I had not logged in so it shows up as by Anonymous.

(Anonymous) Date: 2023-08-14 05:17 am (UTC) wrote:

"...begin by directing unceasing efforts to keeping the mind free of attachment to any specific idea, concept, or exercise, even while actively engaged in its practice. Strive to exist solely in the moment, in God—every act, every thought, an offering to God—letting the past, the future, the “10,000 things” take care of themselves. Endeavor to maintain as pure a state of objectivity as possible, observe each and every thing around and within, tangible and intangible, animate and inanimate, with equal care and thoroughness, yet cling to nothing. As various thoughts, emotions, and sensations manifest themselves, examine them, trace each to its source, but allow no opinion, no prejudice, no preference to take root."

The above instructions are a type of Gyana (alt spelling: Jnana) yoga sadhana that develops one's higher transcendent wisdom aspect.

Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev says Gyana yogis never let "the editor/commentor/the critic/the nagger, etc" interfere when doing the above type of yoga sadhana. The moment a Gyana/Jnana yogi does their development of a keen, penetrating wisdom (that manifests as flashes of instantaneous, deep insight) is stopped dead in its tracks.

What is not mentioned in the above instructions is that the number of breaths one takes per minute and the number of thoughts you have per minute are very closely linked. You can read more in-depth about this link between thoughts and breaths-per-minute in Patanjali's Yoga Sutras.

Sadhguru says most of today's billions suffer from "monkey mind" or as he puts it - "mental diarrhea". It's mental diarrhea because their mind is doing it to them despite their sincere wishes that it would not. Simply wishing that it would not chatter so incessantly is not enough to make it quiet down simply because you want it to. It's a capability that takes training because it's changing the structure of your higher-level sheaths.

For reference the average person takes about 15-16 breaths per minute. That should give you an idea of how to track the success of the above instructions as well. You'll actually notice the number of breaths you take per minute begin dropping. You'll notice the space between each thought arising gets a little bit longer and longer as well. This also means you'll have pushed your prana/chi a little bit larger than the perimeter of your physical body too. If you can maintain that prana stably pushed beyond the body even while REM sleeping you will get total relief from the constant inner chatter.

As Sadhguru put it one day (I'm paraphrasing somewhat):

Erase the chalkboard (the mental diarrhea), then train yourself to clearly "write" one single thought that you Purposefully Will.

Congrats! You are well on your way to gaining the Pragna (alt spelling: Prajna) Halo around your head! I mean that quite literally as the above practice, should you choose to invest serious time and effort into it (basically similar to the commitment of somebody who trains to become a pro athlete) - you will gain the Transcendent Purified Wisdom Halo (know as Pragna/Prajna in Sanskrit) someday around your head. Those whom have opened their 3rd Eye will be able to perceive it. Sadhguru has an entire video discussing exactly this and the above practice is one of the ways you can train to gain it.

I've decided to upload to my blog a transcript of Sadhguru's discussion about this type of Gyana/Jnana practice for those whom are curious about the exact details of what an authentic transcendent wisdom practice does to one's prana and the various body-sheaths. There's a lot of details included I did not give in the above response...like how gaining a halo is related to the cycles of the moon. Or that you can gain a second, separate halo for your body as well.

JMG - I partially tore my distal bicep tendon (attaches near elbow) in the gym about a month ago. I'm doing everything I know to help it heal quickly - rehab exercises, appropriate herbal remedies, drinking bone broth for the collagen. It's really being stubborn, and I'm starting to get a little discouraged, which I know won't help. I prefer to not see a doctor for the typical reasons discussed here. Are there any additional magical approaches that I could take? Thanks!

That's not something I'm qualified to answer. If traditional Chinese medicine is legal to practice in your jurisdiction, you might see if you can find a practitioner, as I hear acupuncture has a very good reputation for healing such things.

Thank you. I'll look into this.

If I may suggest, for such an injury you need to consult....Dr Patience.

Forget the gym for a long time; good nutrition and very gentle exercise as you recover will see you through.

Tendons are tricky, and you will probably want to see a practitioner of one healling art or another at some point, but rest and patience are a must. You can always focus on your legs and abs so you do not break your gym habit (though the routine may need reworking).

As a fellow gym customer, I'd encourage you (if you have not done so already) to enroll the help of a knowledgeable instructor to correct your form and prevent further lessions. Specially if you are using the fancy equipments, they overtrain the big muscles and neglect the smaller ones that are used for fine motricity. I prefer old fashioned barbels/dumbels for that reason alone.

Are you doing extensive massage of the affected area? Our hands are a natural channel for healing energy, especially the fingertips, so any type of manual massage will be therapeutic. In the case of connective tissue injuries, massage is also useful for breaking up any redundant scar tissue that naturally builds up during the healing process.

Also, if your injury occurred where it did in any way due to etheric or astral parasites affecting your larger subtle-plane ecosystem, then channeling healing energy through your fingers to that region can help to dissolve those blockages and curses as well. You wouldn't want the immediate injury to heal only to then recur due to its underlying subtle causes remaining unaddressed. You don't have to know how to identify each parasite or the mechanism by which each one imbalances you in order to do effective clearing work on them, although those skills can speed up the process. Just massage the area, putting in extra time and attention on any points of pain or discomfort.

Any area too tender to tolerate massage can simply be held under your fingertips, while directing healing and rebalancing energy into the pain, until it eventually resolves enough to begin benefiting from massage. As with pretty much everything else in life, if the area ends up hurting more rather than less after you massage it, then you went a little overboard with the massage work, so go a bit gentler the next time.

Paying attention to and caring for your body are so much more healing than we've been hypnotized into believing. Explore your injury — learn what it likes and dislikes. Nurture it as you get to know it, and pretty soon you will have befriended it. After all, it came to you bearing some message that you hadn't been able to hear through less forceful means. If you can fully learn whatever it came to teach you, it may never feel the need to come back to you again. Who knows, you might even find yourself missing that little messenger when it finally goes away!

Should you want to increase your hands' natural healing capabilities, a great method for doing that is the Healing Hands technique described in the Modern Order of Essenes posts, conveniently located on this blog.

— Christophe

Wow, thank you all for the feedback and advice. To reply to a couple of posts together, I've been lifting for many years, and I would consider my form and technique to be quite good. At the time the injury occurred, I was in the midst of a 3-4 month period of ridiculously high demands and stress. The gym has always been an outlet, and I didn't sacrifice any intensity there. In retrospect, I think it's obvious that the stress led to a compromised state that invited a "break". I am massaging with St John's Wort daily and will increase that as well. It's all very frustrating. Thanks again everyone.

I hope you feel better soon. Tendon issues are really slow to heal, and very mentally challenging due to the length. Mine took nearly a a year+. Stay in the game mentally!

Wish you the best.

Physician here (not a surgeon): If you were my patient, I'd consider you an orthopedic surgical patient until an orthopedist says otherwise, and I'd order an MRI of the injured area and make the referral.

It doesn't take much for a partial tear to become a complete tear, resulting in avulsion of the biceps, which will retract like a window-blind. And as often as not, an orthopedist WON'T (!!!) re-attach it. It won't re-attach itself either.

I get that you don't like doctors, but note that orthopedic surgery is usually curative. If I may, I recommend giving some thought to prioritizing your dislikes before the issue becomes moot.

--Lunar Apprentice

Happy Monday JMG and everybody,
I finally had some success with my meditation work. I'm sharing it in the hopes that my experience might be helpful to someone. For the longest time I was doing everything by the book yet the sentence "I entered into a meditative state" rang hollow to me... until the last Tuesday. What moved the needle for me was frankincense. In the presence of its scent, I finally did it... taking the position, relaxing the muscles, fourfold breath, go! And I did! The smell of frankincense helped a lot. It was not easy to learn to burn it properly though.
I have a question about SOP. I am invoking Druid Deities, but that's the extent of my relationships with them. Is it OK to do so? My parents were atheists and I am slowly working my way toward faith and religion, but slowly is the keyword here.
Kirsten

1) Glad to hear this!

2) That's perfectly okay. As you might expect, the deities invoked in the Druid Revival tradition tend to be a very laid-back bunch, and nobody's in a rush.

To share, for those who wonder what LARP, IIRC or TSW mean, I've compiled a list of Ecosophia abbreviations.

Thanks for appearing on two new podcasts, I'm looking forward to listen to them!

To ask, I've read people mention the Qabalistic Cross and Rose Cross rituals. These both appear to be part of the Golden Dawn tradition. What is the goal of these? What are the differences between the two? Which of your books describes them?

I'll answer your questions in reversed order.

3) They're both in Circles of Power.

2) They're completely different in every way; the Cabalistic Cross (hereafter CC) is an opening and closing practice used at the beginning and end of many rituals, while the Rose Cross ritual (hereafter R+C) is a specific, standalone ritual of blessing. They literally don't have a single word or action in common.

1) The CC is meant to balance and energize the subtle body at the beginning and end of a ritual. The R+C is meant to call down specific positive energies into all the levels of the self as a form of blessing.

Thanks! I should have checked my copy of Circles of Power before I asked.

On the Arcanvm podcast I heard you mention The Druid Path. You might enjoy hearing that my local bookstore had The Druid Path in store, and told me I wouldn't have had to order it. They even had a Dutch translation Het pad van de druïden which was on display!

Het pad van de druïden

Nice! I hadn't seen the Dutch translation yet, though I'd heard of it.

Hello JMG,

a friend of mine said that he had heard from Sadhguru that it is possible to be reborn even into the past. Have you ever heard that such a thing is possible?

Greetings ExecutedByGandhi

I know some people who say this. All I know for sure is that all my past life memories appear to be in chronological order.

Welcome our host

I am looking for books on the practical aspect of sacred geometry, perhaps something towards making talismans/amulets using sacred geometry?

Sacred geometry until quite recently was very nearly a lost art, and has had to be reconstructed a bit at a time by the hard work of scholars and mages. With the exception of architecture, the practical aspects of sacred geometry haven't seen much development yet, because the basics still needed to be recovered. Other than material about the use of polygrams in talismans -- you'll find a good essay on that in Israel Regardie's The Golden Dawn -- I don't know of a useful book on the subject. You could always get to work studying and experimenting, and down the road a ways, write one.

Hello archdruid

In the previous week there was a question about magical orders centered around exploring the more mystical aspect of occultism (aimed more at "making the adept be in the right place at the right time" and exploring occult philosophy).

My question:
Do you know of magical orders dedicated more to learning and developing the practical aspects of magic? More towards changing the world according to the will of the magician?

No, and if I did, I wouldn't recommend them. Trying to change the world without changing yourself is the classic route to total magical failure, because the circumstances you're in and the events that you encounter are always powerfully shaped by your own actions and your own character. That's why those orders that teach practical magic -- for example, the various branches of the Golden Dawn -- put as much energy into self-transformation as they do into more obviously practical workings, because if you do magic to try to change something in your environment, while still doing all the things in your everyday life that make your environment what it is, the magic will fail.

To add a personal data point to this, I've encountered friction in myself with just occult study, let alone magic.

I got started in this wonderful community by diving into the cosmic doctrine book club as a pandemic activity, loved it, and kept going down the rabbit hole in my own way.

Levi's work took a bit getting used to, but I got great results with the suggested tarot meditation and was able to make a slow go at it. Then I reached chapter 5 and hit what felt like a brick wall.

After introspection and meditation I saw this was a sign of issues I needed to focus on myself before continuing in earnest

Apologies I hit send too soon... I was the anon offering my (hopefully helpful) data point to the OP)

My point was to try to see moments of friction as the lessons they actually are, and (at least for me) trodding slowly along my path has worked better than trying to bite off more than i can chew.

That's been my experience too. Every difficulty in my life has been a signpost pointing to something in me that needed work.

I hope you find this week's questions nice and interesting!

My questions:
1. what are the real possibilities of bringing a change in the human body through occult or magical methods? I'm not asking about the method of how to do it but I'm curious if this would be a good direction for research and meditation. Could we create a prosthetic limb of a severed limb using magic/occultism?

The second question has been lingering on my mind for a long time. I love magic and spirituality, they give incredible depth to my life however I have a perpetual problem with one aspect. I'm not sure if these will be well-chosen words but I'm curious what are the real possibilities of magic to influence the physical world? Wouldn't more good be done by occultists studying physics or biology? Is magic just a matter of subtle energies not directly affecting physicality?

To sum up my second question
2. what are the real possibilities of influencing physical reality through magic/occultism?

1) Nope. Magic is the art and science of causing changes in consciousness in accordance with will -- that's Dion Fortune's definition; it works with the mind-side of things, and is wholly subject to the ordinary laws of nature. Thus you can make yourself successful, happy, and wise through magic, but you can't regrow a severed limb.

2) See my answer above. If you want to influence physical reality, become an engineer.

Dear JMG,
How are you?

Would magic (and all the initial rituals, and here I think of the Kabbalistic Cross, middle pillar and prayers) be enough for us to alter our consciousness to the point that the force of retrograde planets does not reach us or influence us anymore?

Thanks in advance!

No, but even without that you can learn to work with rather than against retrogrades. The trick here is to focus on things that begin with "re-" in English. For example, during Mercury retrogrades, I revise manuscripts, review older projects, research things I'll be writing about later on, and return emails (but don't originate many). When Jupiter is retrograde I review and revise my financial plans, and research new options, and so on. In my experience, at least, doing that leads to considerable benefits; the time spent during the retrograde then becomes the foundation for success once the planet gets going again.

Thank you for the tips!
I also thank you for the magical Mondays. I learn a lot here. So: thank you very much!

Hello JMG

Reading trought old grimoires (like Abramelin or Book of Oberon) makes me wonder if there used to be more magic in the world? The old grimuars describe monks traveling around the world on the backs of demons in the form of horses, summoning mystical illusory castles, there are also so many stories of ordinary villagers meeting spirits along the way and talking to them as if they were physical persons.

Does this mean that it is currently harder to do magic than it used to be?

That's certainly my take on things. There are several factors that make magic unusually difficult just now; some of them are in the process of fading out, but the most important won't change for around 4000 years.

Not op

What is it that will change in 4000 years?

The spring equinox is now in the sign of Aquarius, which was traditionally ruled by Saturn -- by the calculation I used, it entered Aquarius in late 1879. While it's in the Saturnine signs of Aquarius and Capricorn, magic will be at its lowest ebb, just as it's strongest during the ages of Leo and Cancer.

Hello John Michael Greer

I do a lot of physical exercise. I have also started practicing based on your books on Druidic magic (they are fantastic) for a few months now.

I'm wondering if there is a direction I could explore. I'm looking for a magic or occult field that allows you to enhance your senses and physical body. Czy coś takiego istnieje?

If you want to enhance your physical body, I suggest finding a good gym and lifting weights. If you want to enhance your senses, practice sitting very still in a natural area and paying very close attention to everything that surrounds you.

You'll have to translate that last bit -- is that Polish, by any chance? I'm sorry to say that whatever language it is, it's not one I know.

I'm so sorry. I wroted this message being real tired. Yes, this is Polish. Translation would be ,,are there any change that something like this exist"

I've been taking notes along my training and one of the things that has helped me the most on making my senses keener, as JMG says, is being very attentive and still in nature. In particular around the hours the yogis call Sandhya Kalas --sunrise, noon, sunset and midnight--I found there are very noticeable things changing that the senses perceive and can be a nice experience to go through them in a meditative state.

I've been practicing the Five Rites and find that as well as having an affect on my subtle body, it also has had impact on my physical body. Specifically it seems to be driving our old stuck blockages like kidney stones, toxins, and lung congestion. Not plesant in the process, but a good thing to do in the long run.

Greeting JMG!

I've been wondering, what would happend if one started to invoke spirits of animals inside? Like ,, I invokes totem spirit of bear''?

Also is there any good books about totemism? that you would reccomend?

That's not a field I've studied at all.

Convicted for murder in 2nd degree comes to mind.

I'd like to share an astral experience I had last week. As background, I saved the life of two cats about ten days ago, and I had a very vivid dream, in which I was in my workshop at my house. A lump appeared on my workbench, which looked like it was infested with thousands of insects, which grew until creatures came out, that I initially thought were rats but turned out to be five cats. I got a intense feeling of gratitute from, um, Someone Else, and a sense that I was now responsible for these five astral cats.

It didn't seem like an ordinary dream. Do you have any thoughts on it?

It sounds very interesting, but the interpretation of dreams isn't something I'm any good at, and I'm not much better at the interpretation of potential astral visions. Anyone else?

Someone Else appears to be impressed by the work you're doing, whether saving cats or building things. You, on the other hand, appear to be concerned or at least undecided about something you've been working on. Is your project just a breeding ground for parasites? Will it unleash destructive rats? Or will it give rise to five new lives, new projects, new blessings? The new lives/projects/blessings that you brought into being through your work are naturally your responsibility. (Hey, there's far worse things to be responsible for, let's face it!) What do you plan to do with them now? Or, perhaps more importantly, what do they plan to do with you? Someone Else may well have plans for you that you have never dared imagine. Looks like your astral adventures may just be beginning!

— Christophe

I wasn't sure if this comment belonged with the discussion of the Doctrine and Ritual of High Magic or here, but here goes.

KVD mentioned Salamanders and their erasure of the Hawaiian town of Lahaina. While this is a tragic affair, it seems to me that it needn't be thought of as purposeful although it certainly could be. I have often gotten the impression during extreme weather events I have experienced that the elementals were taking advantage of an opportunity, as they interacted with each other, for some very rough and tumble "play" that seems to get out of hand as far as us humans are involved.

Levi talks about how elementals are like children who can be very cruel as well as heedless in play. Wouldn't they have to have been directed to burn down the town by a greater spirit or force to have made that a purposeful event? Or was it just very, very rough play that got out of hand?

Edited 2023-08-14 13:02 (UTC)

JMG I would also be grateful if you expanded on the reason you suspect other spiritual powers were involved. Thank you. KVD

It could have been playfulness, but elemental playfulness rarely happens on so epic a scale. That's why I suspected something on a higher plane may have taken a hand in it.

Thanks. Maybe Lady Pele was really PO'ed. Eruptions are happening elsewhere in Hawaii. Maybe she gathered quite a number of elementals together for the distruction of Lahaine, but perhaps she just did it herself and the elementals just "played" on the fringe.

It would not surprise me at all if Lady Pele was involved. Given her nature, fire elementals would be her devoted servants and adorers.

I always wondered about lava being earth or fire, but I guess the Herb Kane paintings of her settle the debate.

Do you utilize any magical practices in the moderation of your comment sections? I'm always impressed by how remarkably civil and thoughtful they are and given that you're essentially the internet's favorite wizard, I was wondering if you'd done anything beyond just being a really good and consistent moderator.

Nope. I just delete rude comments and ban people who make too many of them. I also delete subtler (i.e., sleazier) forms of trollery -- this guide is a little out of date but it's still a good start -- and ban people who engage in them. That seems to do the trick.

Good day JMG,

last week there was a discussion about the persistence of demonic residues even after a former practitioner actively distances themselves from the practice, prompted by a poster that used to be involved in "demonolatry"...

as someone who has recently started researching esoteric topics and discovered magic monday last week, I was hoping you could clear something up for me. I recently found the texts compiled by nick land's defunct research project ccru, specifically the stuff about the "numogram"

the latter is, to my understanding, a variant of numerological practice that replaces the 1-10 system with a 0-9 system, with implicitly feminine-telluric undertones, which is interesting, but I don't yet have enough knowledge to understand the true significance of this shift

my main concern, however, is the fact that this system specifically references "demons" and is employed to practice "lemurian time sorcery". this leaves me somewhat hesitant to delve too deeply into it, given your response to last week's inquiry about demonic influences and your post on Lemuria as possibly the civilization that precipitated the fall from Eden.

my main question is the following, are you at all familiar with the system I mentioned and if so, how safe would you deem it - is the reference to demons and Lemuria purely stylistic, or is it substantial and therefore a cause for concern?

Yes, I'm familiar with Nick Land's magic and I have a pretty fair collection of CCRU material. I would never use it in practice, though. One of the things that I find least pleasant about the chaos magic scene, and Land was very much part of that, is the way it gravitates so reliably toward the demonic and the antihuman; partly that's because it attracts so many would-be edgelords, but there may be deeper and more dangerous factors at work as well.

thanks for the response! is there any other numerological system you would endorse?

The classic English method, which I've discussed in a series of posts:

https://ecosophia.dreamwidth.org/tag/numerology

It's always worked well for me.

Are 'edgelords' simply the internet version of the shock-yo-mama crowd, or does that term also refer to some metaphysical role these chaotic wannabes are aspiring towards? I can't tell whether it just sounds like it was made up by and for LARPing enthusiasts, or whether it sounds more like something Crowley would have minted. Actually, I guess those two aren't really all that different!

— Christophe

I had to ask some younger readers once what "edgelord" meant, which tells you just how far out of date I am! They said it was a derogatory term for people who preen themselves on how edgy they are.

What is your favourite thing in nick lands CCRU material?

J.L.Mc12

The fact that I don't practice it.

Hello JMG,

I recently came upon an article about supposedly the oldest and biggest pyramids on the planet, the Visoko complex in Bosnia and Herzegovina. LINK to the website for reference. The article and reference encompass a large array of topics and I would not go all that much into it. But one thing stuck out. They state, that the great pyramid was obviously sealed about 5000 years ago. This got me thinking. Coming off of your Secret of the Grail; the wells/longbarrows were also sealed up. Now everyone keeps saying how this sites were beneficial, or they generate positive energy, they heal, etc. So why seal them up and abandon them? Why the same pattern of abandonment by our ancestors?
As a mater of fact, could it be related to the fact, that the site of the Temple of Solomon, supposedly one of the great nexuses of the world. Is also sealed up and a constant political hotspot?

On another note, I have been in the process of carving a DMH wand, and seem to have enough material to make another one that I would gift to a friend. Are there any considerations I should take into account? Obviously I will carve it, but can I engrave symbols or dedications? I would not consecrate the gifted wand, but can I bless it, or ask a goddess to bless it?

Best regards,
V

1) Thank you for the link about the Bosnian pyramids -- I've seen a few discussions of them here and there but haven't followed up on that. The largest of them is pretty impressive:

The long barrows were indeed sealed up. Nobody knows for sure why that was done; the inner work I've done suggests that it was a change of religions, from an earth-centered tradition to a solar and lunar tradition, and it had roughly the same emotional charge as Christians turning their backs on Paganism thousands of years later.

2) You can certainly do that. The wand I used for that work was purchased from a wand maker at a Pagan event in Ohio, and she blessed all the wands she sold.

1. Interestingly it just poped up today. Glad you found it interesting.

2. Am I right that if I would like to inscribe something on it, a quality, or druidic concept, it should be just that, superficial. And a blessing should be general and left at that. Not to impose on the person and to let them take the wand where he wants to go.

2) Yes, very much so.

I would take anything re the Visoko complex with a very large grain of salt (the size of your fist). More sober observers have pointed out that these are natural formations called flatirons. If they were used or modified by neolithic people, we'll never know for sure how much, because the huckster 'developing' the site has put in a considerable amount of his own modifications. Some of the tunnels are ones he dug himself. The rest may or may not be ancient mines. How old? What was being mined? Who knows? This guy's a businessman with no professional training in how to dig up an ancient site. The Bosnian government is so desperate for revenue that they are letting him trample over any real archeological sites creating a spiritual theme park all for the sake of a fast convertible mark.

I sincerely apologize for the screed but stuff like this just irks me to tears. With a public so hungry for anything sacred, even a site like this pulls in the spiritually starved at the expense of genuine sites either ancient or newly created. When the money dries up, this place likely will as well. And we'll no wiser afterwards than we were before.

Fulvous Harebrained Spider

I agree with everything you said.
This is why I just posted the link, said I will not go into it, and asked about a train of thought that this inspired.

As for the rest. Let each reader, if inclined, read up and make his own mind.
Me I would perhaps look into taking a vacation there and putting on my clearest skeptics goggles:-)
And if I am proven wrong, then I’d be glad.

Hello JMG and everybody,

I would love to hear any thoughts you might have about this question:

Q. Are you familiar with the work of Neville Goddard?

I first encountered Neville back in 2009 when I read Regardie's 'Teachers of Fulfillment' (a shortened version of The Romance of Metaphysics), which had a chapter on Neville. I have since read all of Neville's work and listened to all of the audio recordings of his lectures that I can find.

Neville has become very popular in the last 10-15 years; especially in the last 10 years.

Regardie seemed to appreciate Neville and his work. Ragardie said that of all the New Thought/systems of Metaphysics that he was acquainted with, Neville's was the most "magical."

Neville also wrote a book which had many stories from people who had made his methods of "manifestation" work. There's also a Reddit page/community for people studying his work. However, I find Reddit to be too chaotic.

I'm just curious if you or the commentariat have any experience with Neville's work.

Thanks for your time and generous help.

I've read a little of Goddard's work. It struck me as good standard New Thought material; I'd studied the same sort of thing in other contexts, so didn't pursue it, but I don't know of any reason not to recommend it.

Hi,

Thanks for answering.

Are you referring to the Order of the Essenes New Thought course? I've seen you mention that on a few occasions.

Can you tell me, what benefits did you get from the Essene course? (If that's what you're referring to).

Thanks.

Yes, it was the OE course. That was a good solid whack upside the head for me; it taught me that most of what was causing me to experience problems in my career and my life was my own doing, and also taught me how to change that. It did me an enormous amount of good in practical terms.

(If anyone else is wondering what we're talking about, the whole course is available for free download here.)

Wow! that's high praise, indeed.

How long should we spend on each lesson? Is it one week per lesson?

Thanks again.

Yes, it's one week per lesson. The first two courses take a year between them; that's got most of the meat of the system, and it's a year well worth your time.

Goddard brought a certain intellectual depth and coherence to the idea of manifestation that makes it more compelling than the pop culture The Secret stuff. He also seems to have had a serious familiarity with the Cabala.

I think the weakness of his method is that it works exceptionally well for someone like NG who had a naturally rich imaginative faculty. For more ordinary people the symbolic work and study of occultism is useful. Also, some followers of his work seem to me to exaggerate what his Law of Assumption can be expected to accomplish.

Good Morning JMG,
I loved your book the Witch of Criswell.
So I have a few questions.

1) how realistic is the events in the novel? I know it was a work of fiction but the magic and such, how accurate?

2) does the silver trick actually work?

3) and possibly the most important, when is the next one?!?

Thanks,
Lee

Thank you! I'm delighted to hear it.

1) One of the basic rules I'm following in that series is that all the magic is real. There will be no magic, nor any other supernatural phenomena, in any Ariel Moravec book that people don't routinely experience in the world we live in.

2) Yes, it's a classic hoodoo protective practice. Most of Aunt Clarice's magic comes from the material I studied with my hoodoo teacher Cat Yronwode.

3) The second volume, The Book of Haatan, is already at the publisher and should be out later this year. The third, The Carnelian Moon, is within a few thousand words of completion and should be out sometime next year. I hope to have one out each year for the foreseeable future. (Yes, I have quite a few more sketched out...)

Awesome!! I can't wait!
Thank you for all your writings and work.

Sending blessing and thanks!!

Lee

No question this week, but a data point that I hope isn't an omen for the country.

I'm going to start with, I am not generally lucky. My natal Jupiter sits in my second house conjunct Saturn, which to me has always manifested as success through hard work. I have stopped believing in coincidence. Those things in my life that look like luck (both good and bad), have always been providence.

An example, I had the opportunity to work for the federal government back during the Trump/Clinton election in what I thought was my dream job at the time, and ended up flubbing the last interview. Had I gotten that job, I would have been fired a few years ago for not getting vaccinated, and even if I wasn't, I'm pretty sure I'd be miserable working for this administration. Instead, staying with my current job saw me get a generous raise. Only in hindsight, did I realize I was right where I needed to be.

So it came as a huge surprise to me when I won a charity gun raffle a few months ago. I had been wanting to expand my gun collection, but always had an excuse to put it off. Apparently the Gods saw fit to gift me with one, and I worry it's because they think I might need it.

I asked the Sacred Geometry Oracle is this was an Omen and drew card 31 upright, Infinity. I took this as a yes, and that its part of something a lot bigger than just myself. As things continue to derail in the US, I am reminded of Yeats, the centre cannot hold...

I thank you, JMG, and the commentariat here for this small chunk of sanity.

-Trubrujah

Oof. Well, I hope what it means is that you'll have some good opportunities to add some venison to your dlet!

I have noticed that people vary greatly in their attentiveness to the
needs of others.

As an example, one person may think, “That person might need some water.”
while for another person, that same thought would almost never occur to them
(except perhaps in retrospect, like, Oh, why didn’t I think of that!).

Or, one person may instinctively think of small gifts for others, while for
another person, that thought would almost never occur.

Surely it is better to be attentive to needs and happiness of others, but not
everyone has this trait.

In occultism/esoterism, how would one explain the existence, or lack thereof, of this
trait of attentiveness toward others?

Have attentive people learned or cultivated this trait in a former lifetime, and that
is why it appears ‘natural or ‘inborn’ for them now?

Or is attentiveness the default for humans, but some of us are raised to be
distracted with other things?

Thank you very much for your time.

There's actually a straightforward physical reason for it. The normal human brain contains a net of cells that are called "mirror neurons," because they mirror the feelings and (to a limited extent) the thoughts of other people. People who have a lot of mirror neurons are empaths. People who don't have any at all -- well, that's me; in Aspergers syndrome, none of the brain's neurons are set aside for mirror neuron duty, which is why people with Aspergers tend to have higher than usual IQs but are totally clueless at reading other people's feelings, picking up on nonverbal cues, and so on.

Now of course, as with anything else affecting human life, karma plays a factor in this; you incarnate in a given body because its strengths and weaknesses are the ones you need to give you the necessary experiences. But by the same token it's not something you can always do anything about. I spent much of my childhood being miserable because social interactions were a constantly frustrating puzzle to me, and it wasn't until I was diagnosed with Aspergers at 40 that I found it it's because 90% of human communication is nonverbal and I can't perceive any of it.

FWIW, I think we still have both types in the world, because the world needs both.

Magic Monday

Daily Heathen Prayers and Question on Persephone Myth Comparative Work

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Lending My JMG Library!

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China

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Not an expert either, but AFAIK...

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Tendon Healing

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Yeap

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Sacred geometry

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Orders of practical magic

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