Magic Monday

[ecosophia]

It's almost midnight, so we can proceed with a new Magic Monday. Ask me anything about occultism and I'll do my best to answer it. With certain exceptions, any question received by midnight Monday Eastern time will get an answer. Please note:  Any question received after then will not get an answer, and in fact will just be deleted. (I've been getting an increasing number of people trying to post after these are closed, so will have to draw a harder line than before.) If you're in a hurry, or suspect you may be the 143,916th person to ask a question, please check out the very rough version 1.0 of The Magic Monday FAQ here. Also: I will not be putting through or answering any more questions about practicing magic around children. I've answered those in simple declarative sentences in the FAQ. If you read the FAQ and don't think your question has been answered, read it again. If that doesn't help, consider remedial reading classes; yes, it really is as simple and straightforward as the FAQ says. 

The picture?  I'm working my way through photos of my lineage, focusing on the teachers whose work has influenced me and the teachers who influenced them in turn.  Like Allan Bennett, who we discussed last week, this week's honoree was a teacher of Aleister Crowley. George Cecil Jones was the man who introduced Crowley to the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, and later on helped Crowley found the Argenteum Astrum (Order of the Silver Star, or A∴A∴), the first of the two magical orders the Not-so-great Beast headed during his lifetime. (The other, the Ordo Templi Orientis or OTO, will be discussed next week.) Jones was a working chemist and metallurgist as well as a serious student of the occult. He practiced the magical virtue of silence more effectively than most of his contemporaries, however, and very little seems to be known about him.

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With that said, have at it!

***This Magic Monday is now closed. See you next week!***

Comments

stone and word

[syfen]

Archdruid,

What are the magical properties of granit and what is its corrispondence?

Im working through the OSA training for the second time, and had a thought. Is it possible to work through our experiences with the archetypes of father and mother wherever we are asked to process our feelings/memories about them? I ask because some of the problems I havent arent related directly to my mom, dad, or siblings but with how society promotes those archetypes.

Regards,

Syfen

Re: stone and word

[ecosophia]

1) The traditional sources don't give a correspondence for granite. I've never tried to work with it and so don't know its magical properties.

2) That would be worth doing, yes. Anything associated with each concept/role that is connected to emotional issues is something to explore.

coelbren letter

[ritaer]

Good morning from snowy California,

I have been working on learning the Coelbren. Today's meditation was on Li. Perhaps because of the snow outside, I wondered whether the easy, gliding motion indicated by the letter could include the less pleasant aspect of a slip and/or fall. On one hand, the uneasy gait and clutching of possible supports of a person trying very hard not to fall would not fit into the definition. OTH, I know that a slip can happen too quickly to react with other than a final thump. Perhaps if Li is combined with Pi or other letter of sudden motion or change. Thoughts?

Rita

Re: coelbren letter

[ecosophia]

I'd see that as Lli, rather than Li -- Li is smooth and gentle, Lli is turbulent, like falling on your rump on a snowy day!

energy healing

[temporaryreality]

I'd like to ask a question by which I mean absolutely no disrespect to John Gilbert or the teachings he has shared with us - this is just a humble, I'm-chewing-on-this, question:

I believe you mentioned that he died after a lengthy illness and I wonder if you are aware of how he might have reconciled the MOE teachings (that all illness is spiritual [that trickles down the planes] and that all illness can be healed) with that experience. If you don't know of his own take on it, might you theorize/provide your own thoughts briefly?

(I can see that each soul experiences exactly what it needs to, to develop toward its highest good, and I suppose that's a good enough answer, though I wonder then, why maintain the kind of wording/attitude found in the MOE texts?...)

****
Along similar lines (energy healing), I came across this article the other day (via a link somewhere on Gerald Pollock's lab site) that might be of some interest here.

(free of charge: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0161/7154/files/EdgeScience-Magazine-v3.pdf?7861)

The tl;dr is that a science-minded guy met a self-described psychic and together they explored his abilities, discovering a method of healing that scientist-guy went on to test in a lab. To his surprise, he was able to achieve a 100% cure rate on mice with a cancer with an expected 100% fatality rate. He replicated it several times but (obviously) couldn't get funding/widespread interest.

What was interesting to me was that the method he used seems very much like the MOE healing hands technique.

Also, I found it particularly amusing to see his blind spot: he planned his research so that it involved "no rituals" - and yet I can guarantee it was chock full of approved sciency-rituals that (unbeknownst to him) probably served a purpose similar to those informed by a spiritual/religious approach.

Oh, and he also noticed some magnetic signals that might be reminiscent of the temple tech, and EEG entrainment between healer and healee that ties in with Buhner's work on heart entrainment, plant communication, and healing.

Fun stuff!

Re: energy healing

[ecosophia]

1) I passed on the MOE material pretty much as I received it, with only cosmetic edits. If I'd written the thing myself, I wouldn't have claimed that all illnesses are curable, because that simply isn't true. Everybody can be helped by spiritual healing, but sometimes the help you can get is a matter of being able to function better with an illness, and sometimes it's simply a matter of dealing more gracefully with your own mortality. Life is a terminal illness, and we all die of something.

2) Interesting! Thank you for this.

[(Anonymous)]

Hello JMG,
Thank you for this forum. My 2nd Saturn return is approaching - March 7th. The first one was ... er... torturous. I am planning a ceremony. I am thinking on March 7th in the hour of Saturn I'll light up 3 black candles, say an orphic hymn to Saturn, and ask him for endurance and wisdom to accept whatever it has in store for me this time around. Does that seem to you like a reasonable approach? Are 3 candles supposed to be black? Anything else that I should add?
With deep gratitude,
Kirsten

[ecosophia]

That strikes me as a very good idea. The candles can be black or dark blue.

[(Anonymous)]

I wonder whether the way the evolution of a planetary spirit is described in the CosDoc can be seen as a rough general template for any process which involves the creation of an organized whole out of individual entities? Say, a body (human or otherwise), or a society?

Maybe I'm not far enough into the book but if the general pattern that the principles established on a "higher" (or lower, as in closer to the unmanifest) level percolate through everything that is created out of this level of existence holds, wouldn't that imply that every society HAS to decline and dissolve someday and that there is no stable state that can be reached, regardless of how complex or simple a society is? Just as there is no immortal body? And that the decline will either happen in a natural, relatively relaxed way if the individual entities are aware of the process and do their part of that all kinds of nasty effects including divine intervention may happen if they don't? (I can't help it as I don't know where to turn to in the light of the following... it IS *slightly* related however and only to bear with a good portion of Galgenhumor - but then it's really funny. Have you seen this: https://www.eugyppius.com/p/worlds-most-ridiculous-fact-checker )

And then another question that pops up in this forum in this or that variety every now and then: Why are egregores not conscious (or how can it be that they are not conscious?). If you define consciousness as awareness plus memory, and awareness as the capability to react to an external stimulus, what's missing?

Greetings,
Nachtgurke

[ecosophia]

1) Yes! Excellent -- you're paying attention.

2) Thank you for this -- no, I hadn't seen that. The guy in question clearly has a room temperature IQ.

3) They have no memory. All that's in their minds is what's put there by the people who create them, deliberately or otherwise. That's why egregors don't learn from their mistakes, and very often keep on doing the same thing over and over again despite an unbroken track of failures. Kind of like the US government...

The Number of the Accountant

[goatgodschild]

Mr. Greer --

I have put off writing this for some weeks, but I want to provide you with a data point in regards to Crowley's current legacy.

In the magical circles I have run in, the view on Crowley is that anything he wrote, created, or did was utterly disgusting and wrong, with no hope of retrieving useful things. Anything that even seems like Crowley would have associated with it should be avoided, in case it pollutes your work.

I haven't read any of him yet, though I've been working through other occult writers from around that time.

Re: The Number of the Accountant

[ecosophia]

Good heavens. I'm not at all a Crowley fan, but I wouldn't go that far. His books on yoga, for example, are quite decent, and the Thoth tarot is pretty good.

[ataulfo]

I feel I need to step away from this online space. May I have your blessing for my work with your books to proceed on its own merits?

[ecosophia]

Of course. That's how most people use my books, after all.

[(Anonymous)]

Wouldn't reading/writing be considered a type of magic (at least according to Dion Fortune's definition)?
Will1000

[ecosophia]

Why do you think she wrote novels?

[(Anonymous)]

Are the properties associated with rituals performed with an error of timing?

I often burn incense to the planetary deities and sometimes also coloured candles, depending what I have at the time. Last Thursday morning, I was convinced it was Friday and did these for Venus, also with the focus of green candles, Friday and money. I realized not very long afterwards and later burned storax for Jupiter.

Does it help that both planets are benefics?

[ecosophia]

The timing isn't essential -- it's helpful, but you can invoke the planets at any time. (They're always up there, after all.) In ancient times people made offerings to the goddess Venus on every day of the week. So it's not an issue.

On thought processes

[(Anonymous)]

Hello JMG and All! I would like to offer my best wishes to any who may read this.

My question concerns the way that thoughts occur, namely, that at times I have multiple thoughts that coincide each other in time. For example, when I was younger I fell into the habit of counting to fall asleep--most times I would count to 4 repeatedly. I came to notice rather quickly that while counting to 4 in my head I would have other thoughts appear alongside the counting of numbers. 1..2...3..4 repeatedly with other thoughts spread out on top of the repeating beat. The thoughts would be my own, some kind of tangential reflection upon the day or your run of the mill wondering. As I got older and still habitually continued the practice, sometimes counting would lead into more or less lucid dream states, some of which reflected the thoughts that coincided with the counting.

My first question is if there is anything in occult literature that mentions any such practice. My second question is if you think there would be any possible deficit or problem (or benefit) arising from the habit of having "split" thoughts such as these.

It does not always occur only with counting and words such as I have described before I sleep. At times in meditation I have found that multiple strings of word thoughts arise simultaneously and I have to work harder to focus. I have found that raising what I might call the amplitude, or force, behind the willed thought I choose to enforce more or less reduces the other thoughts and allows me to focus.

This has been a curiosity of myself (which funnily enough sometimes I think about in the aforementioned time before sleep) that I thought I might ask you about.

Thank you as always for your time and consideration,

J.

Re: On thought processes

[ecosophia]

That's tolerably common. Have you ever seen someone watch TV and carry on a conversation at the same time? The mental skills are very similar. It's not a problem, and it's something of an advantage when you have to multitask.

Amulet

[(Anonymous)]

Hey jmg

I have a question concerning your red bag amulet.
Is is possible to use a red paper packet instead of a bag, like some Asian talismans? Or would the paper be too much of a etheric insulator for that to work?

Re: Amulet

[ecosophia]

An excellent question that can only be settled by experiment. Give it a try and see how it works!

[(Anonymous)]

Hello JMG, hope you are doing well!

Would you mind elaborating on why you're not a fan of the not-so-great-Beast Aleister Crowley? What do you think of the Book of the Law?

[ecosophia]

Partly it's that his personality comes across very clearly from his writing, and I'd walk a mile in tight shoes to get away from that kind of pompous egomaniacal bore. Partly it's that his idea of spirituality and mine don't have much in common. Partly it's that as I see it, Crowley completely misunderstood what an Aeon is and what it means to speak its Word -- I discussed that on an earlier Magic Monday thread here. Now of course I know Jung well enough to recognize that when someone irritates the bejesus out of me, that's because the person mirrors my own bad habits back at me; I know that there are plenty of people who find me equally insufferable! But I don't find his teachings useful, and his life was a smoking crater -- to me, that's a big red flag. If a teacher can't pay his bills, cope with human relationships, and generally keep his life on an even keel, there's something very wrong with the teaching.

As for the Book of the Law, channeled volumes handed down by discarnate intelligences were a dime a dozen in the 20th century. Crowley's contribution to the genre doesn't strike me as especially interesting -- though I have to admit that "Liber Call Me Al: The Book of the In-Laws" is probably the best parody of any such volume ever written.

[(Anonymous)]

If I have a sense that I am not just what I am, that the world within me is the same as the world without, is it possible to experience this beyond an intellectual sense? I get the intellectual idea of it, but otherwise I feel the same as I normally do.

[ecosophia]

Yes, but it's also possible to end up stark staring nuts by pursuing that sort of awareness too forcefully. You might consider seeing if you can find a good Zen teacher who can get you started with the meditations that will get you there more or less safely.

[(Anonymous)]

Hi JMG,

Have you heard (or heard of) 'The Hum' and is there any Occult explanation?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hum

Thanks!

[ecosophia]

I've heard of it, of course -- I left Seattle before the West Seattle Hum became a thing, but I know people who heard it. That turned out to be caused by a huge pump used to unload bulk cargoes in the harbor, with defective sound control equipment on it. Plenty of other hums also have their origin in malfunctioning technology -- but there are others that seem to have other causes. There are lots of strange noises in the world. As for occult explanations, for the last forty years or so there's been very little contact between the occult scene and the anomalies-investigation scene. That wasn't the case before then -- to name only one example, Meade Layne, an important early UFO investigator, was a Golden Dawn initiate and a very capable occultist -- but most anomaly researchers these days don't want anything to do with occultists. So the investigations that might turn up occult causes haven't happened.

In Need of / MOE Sleep ;)

[(Anonymous)]

Perhaps this has been answered on one of the MOE threads, but I was curious if the healing energy stops when someone goes to sleep, is it worthwhile to still do distance healing on people when they might be asleep?

I ask because I have several people with illnesses or long term conditions who have requested healing. My first session is in the morning between 6 AM and 7 AM. Some of these people are inveterate night owls. I might be myself if I didn't have to be at work -something to look forward to in time. And for night owls who may be practicing this on people who go to sleep at 9 PM, the reverse situation might be at work.

Anyway, I do a repeat in the afternoon, so that should cover it, but was just wondering what your or Gilbert's experience was around this.

Anyway, I have found my palms activating and the circulation easily from right shoulder through hands, etc. I have noticed less, though some pressure in the back.

Thanks for this space, and all the teachings you've made available.

Justin Patrick Moore / Mocha Eldritch Peacock

Re: In Need of / MOE Sleep ;)

[ecosophia]

I've never been sure what to make of that bit of John's teaching. I haven't noticed any lack of effect when doing Essene healings either on people who were about to go to sleep or people who were asleep at the time. It might be worth experimenting and seeing whether there's actually a difference.

[deketemoisont]

(Not necessarily for publishing, depending on the case.)

JMG, I've been doing the basics of the GSF work this year - so I had the most interest in one of the systems published by you without an associated group. I'd like to ask your permission to open a message board, that I'd moderate along your lines, dedicated to that work; if allowed, I might call it Golden Section Forum (shortened to "GSForum").

[ecosophia]

As long as you make it clear to all and sundry that it's an unofficial message board and that I'm not personally involved in it, you certainly have my permission. Yes, the name would be fine too.

[(Anonymous)]

A question regarding the knowledge of how vapors from acidic liquids do an effective job of repelling noxious entities:

In addition to keeping away the nasties, does having a dish of vinegar next to where I sleep every night pose any risk to my own etheric body?

[ecosophia]

Nope. It won't affect any etheric body that's anchored to a material body; its effects are solely on etheric forms without a material basis. (Thus it won't deconsecrate talismans, either.)

[fraterquidam]

Hi JMG!

I'm working through CoP, and (based on a suggestion you gave someone else on this forum) I've done a series of simple elemental rituals, followed by a series of planetary rituals, to learn the GRP, LRH, and GRH, as well as the basic Opening and Closing. I'm nearing the end of the planetary sequence, and thinking about what comes next. I'm thinking of learning the elemental and complete forms of the O&C, and, either at the same time or afterwards, making and consecrating the working tools.

My questions are:

1) Do those sound like the appropriate next steps?
2) For the working tools, should I plan to do the consecration rituals repeatedly, or just once per tool?

Thank you!

[ecosophia]

1) That's what I would recommend, in fact.

2) It's very helpful to do them more than once -- four times is good, seven is better. You can learn a lot by repeated performance of those basic rites.

Questions Concerning the LBRP

[sanctuaryofroseandchalice]

Dear JMG:

Thank you again for responding to my question earlier about Corinne Heline, I appreciate it. Since then, a new, different question emerged. Previously I asked your opinion about Gareth Knight's version of the LBRP found in A Practical Guide to Qabalistic Symbolism and how it compares to the more traditional version. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember you saying that you weren't fond of his alterations to the practice. I also prefer the more traditional version, but I'm taking a correspondence course based on Knight's work, where his version is required if I incorporate the LBRP in my practice. I should probably follow my instructor's advice if I intend on continuing with the coursework, but do you see any potential pitfalls or imbalances with Knight's version? Thank you so very much in advance. Peace and blessings to you.

Sincerely,
Sanctuary of the Rose and Chalice.

Re: Questions Concerning the LBRP

[ecosophia]

If you're doing a specific course, do it exactly the way the instructions tell you to do it. I'm not especially fond of Knight's alterations, but I've never heard that they're problematic, and it's a good piece of will training as well as a good idea generally to work with a course as given, and learn as much as you can from the way it teaches you to do things. Later, when you've finished the course, you can always reassess and go back to the traditional version if you choose.

[lincoln_lynx]

The Essene meditation can be used for healing at the last stage and so I've been wondering if those who practice discursive meditation are missing out on the full potential of the Modern Order of Essenes material?

[ecosophia]

I never found that to be the case, but your mileage may vary, of course.

[(Anonymous)]

Hi JMG,

Are there any works on magical correspondences that you suggest? If I remember correctly you said once that Liber 777 was almost completely plagiarized. Do you know what works Crowley was copying from?

[ecosophia]

777 started out as Samuel Mathers' work and was revised and expanded by Allan Bennett, so Crowley's contribution to it was fairly minor. My recommendation has always been that you make your own book of correspondences based on the sources that appeal to you, and test everything out by meditation and pathworking. That way, first, you'll know the symbolism inside and out, and second, nobody else will know exactly what symbolism you use, which can be helpful in various ways.

Earth self-initiations

[(Anonymous)]

Hey jmg

According to the standard golden dawn material part of self-initiations into earth involves meditation on gemstones, what did you find was the best way to do that?

Re: Earth self-initiations

[ecosophia]

The same way I meditate on anything else. I took the gemstone as a theme, and unpacked it in discursive meditation.

[(Anonymous)]

The difference I notice in sop banishing compared to tracing sigil and invocation, is more mental, in intent. The energy pricks in the middle of palms changes but I cant describe it. Its subtle. But they dont feel utterly different. Does this sound right? Also occasionally the air gets vibratory or wavy at the spirit within. Celadon.

[ecosophia]

If that's your experience, that's your experience. I'm not sure any two people sense such things in exactly the same way.