ecosophia | Open (More or Less) Post on Covid 65

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Open (More or Less) Post on Covid 65

As we proceed through the second year of these open posts, it's pretty clear that the official narrative is cracking as the toll of deaths and injuries from the Covid vaccines rises steadily and the vaccines themselves demonstrate their total uselesness at preventing Covid infection or transmission. It's still important to keep watch over the mis-, mal- and nonfeasance of our self-proclaimed health gruppenfuehrers, and the disastrous results of the Covid mania, but I think it's also time to begin thinking about what might be possible as the existing medical industry reels under the impact of its own self-inflicted injuries.

So it's time for another open post. The rules are the same as before:

1. If you plan on parroting the party line of the medical industry and its paid shills, please go away. This is a place for people to talk openly, honestly, and freely about their concerns that the party line in question is dangerously flawed and that actions being pushed by the medical industry et al. are causing injury and death. It is not a place for you to dismiss those concerns. Anyone who wants to hear the official story and the arguments in favor of it can find those on hundreds of thousands of websites.

2. If you plan on insisting that the current situation is the result of a deliberate plot by some villainous group of people or other, please go away. There are tens of thousands of websites currently rehashing various conspiracy theories about the Covid-19 outbreak and the vaccines. This is not one of them. What we're exploring is the likelihood that what's going on is the product of the same arrogance, incompetence, and corruption that the medical industry and its tame politicians have displayed so abundantly in recent decades. That possibility deserves a space of its own for discussion, and that's what we're doing here.

3. If you plan on using rent-a-troll derailing or disruption tactics, please go away. I'm quite familiar with the standard tactics used by troll farms to disrupt online forums, and am ready, willing, and able -- and in fact quite eager -- to ban people permanently for engaging in them here. Oh, and I also lurk on other Covid-19 vaccine skeptic blogs, so I'm likely to notice when the same posts are showing up on more than one venue.

4. If you don't believe in treating people with common courtesy, please go away. I have, and enforce, a strict courtesy policy on my blogs and online forums, and this is no exception. The sort of schoolyard bullying that takes place on so many other internet forums will get you deleted and banned here. Also, please don't drag in current quarrels about sex, race, religious, etc. No, I don't care if you disagree with that: my journal, my rules.

With that said, the floor is open for discussion.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only | Expand All

THE SHORT: HOW DO WE SPLIT OR SHARE THE WORLD? what does a parallel system or detante look like?

-----

THE LONG:

okay so regarding the earlier thread about how to LIVE TOGETHER going forward - what essentially is the vax vs. unvax / freedom vs. servitude / safety vs. freedom / death vs. life groups .... if separating the china ends up apartheid-then HOW DO WE CO-EXIST???

sectioning off the "safe" scared enclosed cities to fend for themselves to negotiate deals with the free world (fly over states and "fly over countries"), seems like in a world of no one LISTENING anymore, it has its own built-in "Come to Jesus" moment that we as a freedom-wanting ungovernable people, cannot touch. or haven't been able to, thus far.

so the WEF wants that? isn't that okay? i mean, we're asking for another Ukrainian situation by letting the WEF have satellite cities within our nations. i see how it'd undermine "the united ANYTHING," but what choice do we have???

i'm not saying that IS the choice. i'm saying it's time to ask that question.

look, i may be all about forgiving. but MY type of forgiving isn't YOUR saccharin stewed in sugar hallmark special. my type of forgiving is: "cool. we tried our thing. you bore me now. go away in peace. i love you. but from afar. up close i don't like how you make me feel and the feelings you bring about it me."

THAT right there, that statement is what i actually meant to James when i wanted to go off into the world to cause a lot of trouble and suicide THAT way out. i wanted to really use my skills to undo people and undo someone in the most sadistic way that they'd murder me.

our own and each others' sadomasochism can be used for good or ill./i fantasized being found a dessicated corpse. i fantasized about the black eye sockets from birds eating my eyes first. somehow i'd inherited an Amy Winehouse ratty beehive wig that'd been blowing every which way but loose in the open desert.

that was the end of me.

but i knew that the mood i was in, i'd have likely caused a lot of devastation on my way out.

but James didn't want me to go. he saw the look in my eyes that i'd let go. to everything. behaving. being nice. swallowing my first impressions so i wouldn't get called out and asked to leave anymore.

and but i no longer wanted to STAY.

and that's when things got REALLY good.

i remember thinking for a long time on my back, would i stay would i go?

i finally sat up and looked James in the eye with all the seriousness my suicidal decisions any which way but loose... and i said, "okay... i will stay for you. i saw the look in your eyes when i was in the hospital after the motorcycle accident and you were afraid of the world without me. so i will live for you as long as i can, but that means that ...

"I CAN NO LONGER 'BEHAVE'."

and he thought a moment, looked deep into my eyes with all the seriousness that he knew how messy it could get now and he'd already been to the edge with me...

and he nodded and said, "Okay."

it took me awhile to fine tune Not Behaving from being up on top of Suicide by instigating someone to MURDER me.

---

i mention this i think because i was as WE are. i couldn't stand what'd become of san francisco and soon the world, because of tech and everyone knowing everything and looking down all the time into the latest rectangle and art was dead sex and romance was a bloated rotting maggot infested corpse.

i was willing to cede ground by suiciding out of here. once my life wasn't my own, and i belonged to the only person in the entire world in my entire LIFE who's let me be the weird scruffy leaky frizzy ERIKA.

and i wanted HIM to be and do the same. more intersting that way as we NEVER run out of anything to talk about.

i'm glad i didn't die. i'm glad i didn't cede for THIS world that we have now and what they are further having wet dreams over. no. there is absolutely NO WETNESS in today's world. none. unless you count the blood clots forming in blood.

talk about Freudian displacement. is that what it's called? are these vaxes a twisted sexual fantasy to not impregnate the world with tiny phallic needles from men and women with tiny asexual phallic nothingness. it's all so ...obvious.

forget taking our guns. they are taking our tits and dicks and turning us into ken dolls. even the barbies.

ah... back to women undermining themselves with their corporate feminism.

--

i wrote a fan letter to the people at KPOO and included two white DJs. the one who i said the best things about, he said it was the best letter i'd ever written to him and i was too nice to be a nazi fascist. he's serious.

and it hurts the same.

but i forgive him to the point of foisting my love upon him. it's a form of cuddle rape like we do to kitties.

and by the way- no kittens yet, dear Murmuration.

anyhow, i'm grateful MUST say thank you to the people who're gonna plan Nuremburg II. forgiveness isn't DO IT AGAIN! forgiveness is realizing they are who they are gonna be and leave it at that.

do we all and each have potential to be angels? yeah. that's the thing.

so i refused to BEHAVE. and by sticking around a little longer, THIS all blew up. i saw the people i wanted to BEHAVE before and be accepted by, they are bat shxt crazy. it wasn't just the ones i "knew." there was no secret cabal of Healthy People.

we're all insane.

i dare say even the Amish have their own ish. we ALL do. we're human.

BUT... now that things are popping and i see it was never ME and ... yet the far left communism safety death wish project will not CEDE power.

so HOW DO WE HOW WILL WE CO-EXIST???

parallel system is at its best a fantasy. but it's a direction, an approach. as i see it, coming FROM these people i wanted to behave before, well... this is why i'm estranged from my ENTIRE FAMILY AND EVERY FRIEND I'VE EVER HAD BEFORE 2011.

i'm like that meme i just saw on powerline blog about the huge amount of friends a guy had all his life before, and now the guy is down to in 2022: NO FRIENDS.. just guns and a dog.

so i went through back then what many are going through NOW. i went through it alone, and it's amazing i made it THIS far in the past decade. funnily the Obama years were the most violent for ME when i wasn't Behaving. when Trump was in, i was safe because they were hating on Trump all that time.

that was not lost on me.

so you can think you're doing great if you have the next few years of Republican elections to hold the line, but oh no...

you can cross your fingers and hope we completely collapse first, but life is better than races of crappy goals.

we can do better than THIS.

so what do we all do? when i was a liberal, i knew you couldn't keep anyone down without that coming back to undermine what you've got.

same NOW. so there will be no quiet, no winning, as things stand.

they run everything and will go against their own desire for MONEY because this is about POWER blind power, and they're in the institutions. the fact that advertising will leave twitter over bullying and ideals over money is evidence to me of a much longer game.

THAT tells me we can "win". there is no winning. only remaining as unwired and disconnected to the Borg as possible.

i think i went through all that agony this past decade for a great training reason now.

we usually suicide out.

what happens when we stick around and demand ...they simply leave us alone?

how do we co-exist on the same land?
ideas are fun to volley back and forth but we are trapped in flesh.

we've gotta EAT. we've gotta stay warm.

and if that post on here about Lulu making Brazilians on welfare get the shot to get "educated" or food, IT's ON...

and no matter how much of a losing battle this looks like, i am my father's daughter and he always was his own man. he was the essence of UNGOVERNABLE. that's why women wanted to conquer him.

who's the Victim now?

he's no victim. he'd never cop to that. just as his daughter, a leo girl who understood her leo pops, i saw how women thought he was indestructable. my mom included.

he forgives her for Everything. she ruined his life and everything he thought he was working for and she was the victim in her eyes. and he still and forever quietly forgives her and is there for her to use again as she gets older and...

HOW DO WE CO-EXIST?

i don't want our ending to be like Shel Silverstein's "The Giving Tree," where we're the dead stump they left behind and move on from.

what happens when people like us who didn't EVER fit in do well in their world, what happens if and when we don't suicide out of here or end up imprisoned or insane or crippled???

so don't tear down. do the creative riffing thing where if you take down an idea you've gotta replace it offer up another idea. it's been too easy to anonymously tear down to be clever and FIRST.

that's an internet illness. being anonymous and reclining in despair and cynicism and not being held to any expectations like we'd be in Real Life.

so i ask:

WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE TO CO-EXIST WITH THE COVIDIANS WHO'RE STILL AROUND AND IN CHARGE OF THINGS???

i honestly don't know because we all can't just not be estranged from each other anymore. that's just not gonna cut it...

what does a parallel system or detante look like?

erika

oh yeah, i brought the sadomasochism and forgiveness and accountability thing up because:

accountability is important to the point of being Everything. so the sadomasochism i speak of flipping, that's gonna have to come to the fore, is when you have to do things like plan Nuremburg II for people you possibly love or could or would love...

...or to people you've already long since FORGIVEN.

x

erika

Amnesty: no

Accountability: yes

Forgiveness and reconciliation: it depends...

I'm not a fan of that Maya Angelou quote - "when someone shows you who they really are, believe them..." - because I keep seeing it used by Blue Team people who want to convince me that Red Team people who oppose abortion in all cases (or whatever objectionable view they might hold) *really are* irredeemable and therefore must be viewed as not-really-human and written off and fought against and never negotiated with or compromised with in good faith.

What people *really are* - in my cosmology at least - is aspects of a universal consciousness incarnated in creatively evolved material bodies, experiencing and exploring a world full of other life and other spirits. We are each our own tapestry of stories - of experiences and beliefs and narratives and histories. No one choice, action, or belief can ever define who we *really are* in a meaningful way that should consign us to permanent judgment or categorization.

So...I do not think there should be any "amnesty." We should not forget. Forgiveness must be an individual choice. And yet I also don't think we should build walls, isolate the "sovereign cities", declare that some people "really are" lost to us and no longer worthy of respect ever again.

There is a balance between demanding accountability - "you must accept that your actions had these consequences" - and demanding punishment or repentance or shame.

There is an assumption that we have a binary choice: "you hurt me, I turn the other cheek" or "you hurt me, now I can hurt you". When I look at it, I see "you believe a story which justifies hurting me, if I believed that story I would think the same way, but I don't believe that story and I would encourage you to step out of it as well - and when you do you may feel ashamed for what you said and did in support of that story, but I still love and respect you as a human". So we live in a world of stories competing for followers, and followers hurting each other in the names of those stories and walling off others to protect themselves from cognitive dissonance and the great chasm of uncertainty that lies outside of the curated narrative Matrices.

I appreciate erika's posts because they are all emotion, all being present and inhabiting a body and suffering and transcending and exploring new ways of being.

I have a different sort of problem: I am detached. I see as if from the outside. I can see why Putin would think and behave as he does, and Zelensky, and the Biden administration. I can see the desire to have a magic bullet vaccine to end covid and the belief that if everyone just takes it we can be done with the virus, and the sort of magical thinking that will round up what we have to the real thing. I can see the perspective that Gates and Schwab and the WEF crew are so blatantly bloviating about directing the future and "penetrating the cabinets" that this must be a genocidal conspiracy with the vaccines as willful agents of death. And then I have my own perspectives, that are sometimes so far removed as to be unhelpful: that we are experiencing a great clash of narratives, a great crisis of belief as we collectively transition from an age of progress and technological expansion to one of decline and limits and living within the constraints of our planet's energy budget and biosphere.

Oddly I have not encountered a great deal of hate in expressing my perspectives publicly. I don't say the "trigger words" that identify me as among the opposition, so people who disagree simply don't engage with me. Perhaps JMG has had a similar experience with his much-more-public writings.

The trouble is that this detachment of mine is my own protective strategy. The world is in two insane polarized warring tribes and so I sit here pontificating on an online forum and not out there participating in community. We sort of got an Ecosophia Northwest community started but it ended up being mostly an in-person version of this forum - sharing ideas and talking about starting projects that mostly involved sharing ideas. And that didn't seem to create enough of a purpose to keep the group going.

So...erika...how do we create such a parallel system? Not a system defined in opposition to anything and thus vulnerable to the same distortions and polarization, but simply a system that respects life. A narrative that bows neither to the great god Progress or to the dogmatic doctrines of the various holy books or to the rigid platform of any party, but that honors life and death and our very real existence and our common *shared* experiences of being here together. That is what I want, to be able to let down my detached defenses and really inhabit my body and this planet more fully.

wow, my dear Man...
that's a LOT. who's so "detached" after all?

I appreciate erika's posts because they are all emotion, all being present and inhabiting a body and suffering and transcending and exploring new ways of being.

this will sound mostly like a "defense," and i find most defensiveness a tell of weakness these days, and maybe i'm just being too clever for my own good, BUT i very much beg to differ with you (and Murmuration) when you claim that i am all EMOTION, because you're implying that you and everyone else in the world is very much NOT "ALL EMOTION" when i believe that is not true and childish immature emotions are all we seem to be about now.

when i was a kid being sent to all this therapy (where i learned transactional analysis and loved the LOGIC), i realized ALL THE PEOPLE WHO WERE PRETENDING THEY HAD NO EMOTIONS WERE NOTHING BUT THEIR EMOTIONS. the inability to even acknowledge them was such a profound and confusing source of pain for them.

it sounds like you have a love letter for a world that you know not whether it can even exist. you, as well as so many MEN, have these really beautiful and romantic ideas that you play out in fractions of ways you're able to in Real Harsh Life.

i'm all over the place here, but i'm saying: YES I'M EMOTIONAL AND SO ARE YOU.

in reality i may be all emotion, but i am very much about structure, ARCHITECTURE, stability, reality-- even if i'm to break from it or riff off it. anything else is passing unsubstantiated fluff that doesn't hold up.

i find the people running the world are ALL EMOTION and never into structure, stability. for instance, i never ever thought gig economies could take off because as a self employed artist and writer, i knew the numbers couldn't be there regarding self employment taxes, retirement, and write-offs.

but the whole "un-emotional" world runs endlessly on a sweaty and panicky -$3 net.

for what? it used to be for The Girl. now what?...

anyhow, i pose the idea that these "scary" emotions will tell you to pay attention to that feeling of your butt cheeks being spread by someone else as they sodomize you dry without your consent (in a bad way).

there is so much wisdom freedom depth magic information truth creativity and ecstasy in our emotions. yeah, there's hell torture and agony. and if everyone had more solid friends like James, they'd also be able to handle YOUR emotions and be solidly there for you when you're losing it.

they'll be like the ladies in white gloves at my friends' baptist churches, i say friends like James are them, because those ladies are supposed to get around you and put their arms out sort of around you to keep you from cutting your head open as you listen to the music the preacher and let go the one place in the world to let go and tell the lord how you REALLY feel about Him! and they can handle it. those ladies don't scowl or judge. they can handle it.

the lack of "forgiveness" is really holding onto the hurt and rage because you wanna be sure and protect yourself and not fall for THAT again! you don't trust yourself and you wanna teach 'em a lesson.

it takes precious ENERGY to hold onto that. to file rage in a drawer for later. i know!

but when you go for what feels GOOD and solid in your gut, and you listen to how you feel and don't talk yourself into staying because it's good for your marriage or your portfolio, when you live like THAT, EVERYTHING CHANGES.

you're more sensitive to b.s.-- it can actually make you feel ILL-- and that's GOOD. avoid it. go for what feels RIGHT. and good.

Papa G had a quote like that about avoiding that which doesn't fill your soul with light and joy.

yeah. it's not just a cute saying. it's not how things are done. you're taught to use your sadomasochistic tendencies against yourself for others.

without asking if it's even necessary. it's habit.

so i argue, no- it is not i who is so emotional! it is you all who are so afraid of being TAKEN OVER by your own desires wants needs hungers if you did know or pay attention to your own selves.

that's why i advocate going all the way with a tendency until you're sick.

when i'm broken hearted over someone, i go all the way in pain and fighting for it. the other usually swaggers and moves on or wants to go on as things were. i can't.

so i take things all the way and fight all the way because they get tired and leave (or stay and come back like James), and with the exception of family, i'll play the sucker and fool til i'm sick... because once i'm over someone - platonic romantic or artistic - i'm DONE. i've worked it all out and i'm free.

funny thing is, they always ALWAYS come back later in the quiet of their thoughts and missing me, missing the intimacy, intensity, being accepted. (that's what they've said) and i thank them and give them love but tell them we're done, i've no feeling for them anymore. no TRUST that way.

i'll hug 'em love 'em write them back when they email, but it's just keeping in touch for THEM. i barely remember them once i'm done.

so i may SEEM to give in and lose myself to my emotions, but hardly! it's always been too easy to bring folks to the edge of themselves and make 'em lose it. i now choose (most times) to do the opposite because it doesn't FEEL good in the long term.

in the short term i dig evil. but showy disney character evil with shocks of white in my hair, cigarette holders, and blood-clotting cackles. not this dead bureaucratic fauci birx walensky crap.

i learned to play with my emotions like the colors they are!

but we in the west are taught to pretend we don't have them when as we see, people are ALL EMOTIONS for real to the point of living them out and imposing their fears on the world.

so really... WHO here is all emotion? i'm not saying either is bad. i'm saying people are taught to fear being taken over and succumbing to their emotions in desperation.

then do it. go all the way.

until you're SICK. you'll get bored.

i thought Jesus was kind for not wanting to avenge himself for what the people had done to him. now i get that he was so far above them EMOTIONALLY, that they were like baby kittens to him. baby kittens playfully disemboweling and crucifying yet another unsuspecting Jesus Mouse. if anyone spanked a kitty for torturing a mouse over hours, they'd be the ones considered evil because we love kitties even WHEN they torture. we forgive them because we know that's what kitties DO and we love 'em for it just the same.

that's how i see it. once you get past the supposed "morals" then you're having a different conversation. but you've gotta know yourself first.

i'm gonna remind you and other people here, of TRANSACTIONAL ANALYSIS. it's a logical clearer forgiving accepting and very CREATIVE way of working with and not against your emotions.

start with TA for TOTS. i got TA for Teens again!

i love your vision for the world./i want to help make it true, too.

x

--erika

This deserves a longer response, but it's bedtime and I'm working a long day tomorrow so I'll have to keep it short.

I didn't really mean to suggest that you are an especially emotional person - just that your writing is emotionally evocative in a way that calls to me as one who does not *feel* so much.

As to whether the folks who are running the world are *emotional* because their decisions are not *rational* - I'm not sure I would classify the sort of irrational belief and wishful thinking and the idea that the world must conform to our abstractions of it as *emotion*. But maybe it is, really, on some deeper level - or it is a outgrowth of suppressed emotion. Much to meditate on there...

As for me, yes I suppose I'm one of those men with suppressed emotions. I don't do it *consciously* though - it is a structure that settled into place as I suffered through teenage bullying and isolation. I do have the sense that I could probably break through the detachment if I wanted to, but I'm not sure I really want to. Maybe I will need to though in order to feel like I am really *living* rather than mostly *observing*.

Anyway thanks for your writings here!

Mark

Considering the balanced, dispassionate, crisply precise, yet delicately nuanced, and extraordinarily lucid quality of your observations, I would hesitate to pour a flask on emo-oil into the workings of such a mind. It might be like the Mad Hatter’s watch. Two days late! “I told you butter wouldn’t suit the works!” he angrily tells the March Hare. “It was the very *best* butter,” the March Hare replied. ‘Course, if you want to kick up your heels and put a little zing in your Ding-an-sich, don’t mind me. Carry on, cap’n.

i agree.

erika

I get the detached thing but personally, get me out in the woods or something, and I can find myself hugging a tree or marvelling at fungi with the best of the 'emotionals'.
I suspect some similarities. A dance with nature is still a dance - cut yourself some slack, Mark!

i agree again.

i'd written a long response again to Mark, but trashed it because these two posts said it all.

x

erika

Most people I've seen who treat the Angelou quote as objectionably political are thinking of its context as referencing the experiences of a black woman who had to deal with racists. I wouldn't use it about a person's political predilections unless those said something about their character - what you believe and what you vote for are different from what you ARE. You could be anti-abortion in theory but be kind and compassionate when faced with a young woman with a real need for it. You could be pro-choice in theory but beat up your daughter when she tells you she's pregnant.

So, to apply it to the subject of the post, someone's choosing to get vaccinated or not was not a matter of character (fine, good people made both decisions). Encouraging others to make the same decision for their own sake was not a matter of character. But someone who yelled at you that you were an evil person and don't care if you kill your parents because you didn't get vaccinated was showing their character. After the pandemic is done, they may not feel the need to smear you for that reason anymore, but you know that they're *the kind of person* who will confabulate the most negative explanation for it every time you fail to do what they want you to do. They may not be afraid of covid anymore, but their basic character trait of malevolence is unchanged.

And, also, I acknowledge that basic character traits CAN change, if people are willing to do the work. Some learn and grow and become more tolerant even in old age. But when someone has shown you that they are abusive, you should keep that fact in your mind unless and until they have taken action to show you that they aren't anymore. That's how I interpret Angelou.

-Translucent Jejune Octopus

I like you.

Uhm, thanks I think? That was possibly one of the nastiest things I've seen on film.

-Translucent Jejune Octopus

Re: NEW THREAD: HOW DO WE SPLIT OR SHARE THE WORLD?

hearthspirit - 2022-11-07 18:24 (UTC) - Expand

Re: NEW THREAD: HOW DO WE SPLIT OR SHARE THE WORLD?

(Anonymous) - 2022-11-07 19:02 (UTC) - Expand

Re: NEW THREAD: HOW DO WE SPLIT OR SHARE THE WORLD?

hearthspirit - 2022-11-08 00:07 (UTC) - Expand

Re: NEW THREAD: HOW DO WE SPLIT OR SHARE THE WORLD?

(Anonymous) - 2022-11-08 00:41 (UTC) - Expand

Re: NEW THREAD: HOW DO WE SPLIT OR SHARE THE WORLD?

(Anonymous) - 2022-11-07 19:12 (UTC) - Expand

It's indeed about character and the behaviour that someone chooses instinctively when the situation enables it. Like you say, without serious reflection and effort the Covid-authoritairians will do it again just as soon as the opportunity arises. The next current thing, whatever it may be, is waiting for us and the people with authoritarian tendencies will find that cause to rally behind and start demanding others to do as they say.

The stress in our society is only increasing and I'm afraid the risk of another wave of violence against some minority is only a matter of time. What that minority will be is anybody's guess. It could be the unvaxxed, natural health practitioners, the medical profession, Russians, mulims or some other group alltogether (How about the boomers? their houses and pensions are juicy targets).

During the plague epidemic the Jewish populations of Europe got blamed and many were killed. For example, in January 1349 the entire Jewish community in the city of Basel was burned at the stake. It is an unsettling thought that we don't seem to have learned much since then and I fear we might see large scale prosecutions again. I have no doubt TPTB know this too and will do their utter best to channel this energy to some target of their choosing, but where this destructive energy will finally land cannot be said.

and I fear we might see large scale prosecutions again. I have no doubt TPTB know this too and will do their utter best to channel this energy to some target of their choosing, but where this destructive energy will finally land cannot be said.

yes, BOCCACCIO--- everything i'm doing is operating on that assumption because their anxiety is outta this world and only going to get much worse. that's why accountability NOW is important before these few years are considered CUTE.

erika

Erika,

This was a seminal comment for me, because this is really what it comes down to. Pertaining to an earlier comment "is the world sacred, or profane", your comment here then gets practical: how do the sacred and the profane live together in the same world, fighting for the same resources? I don't know. It's really THE question to my mind. I ponder this question almost every day. The parallel system is surely the answer on the largest scale, but what happens when they come into conflict? The basis for deciding an outcome between the two couldn't be starker. Who's values apply? This is why I have gained such a profound respect for the system the founders came up with. I think it's about the best compromise a human being could come up with. You believe something 180 degrees from me? Ok, fine. We can still live together. Just don't punch me in the nose, and I won't punch you in the nose, and we'll agree we are free up to the point our noses start. And when there is conflict, round up a large group of people, and just vote, and abide by the outcome!

BUT, when the whale gets involved, things change. If people are working this system out, they can be messy, take their time, hash it out. You don't have to have a plan, only an intention and honor, to start. The whale abides by none of that. It has a plan: It will eat all you tasty little krill. You can't be slow and methodical and messy and honorable with the whale. You will be dead first. SO, I think the basic requirement is this: begin from a position of strength. The parallel society MUST be built from the hands of warrior monks. How do we get THERE? I don't know, but it's the fundamental requirement for any of the work that happens later. Physical strength for sure, but also mental and spiritual and civic and educational and ecological. It's really a challenge: to be the sort of people who can pull themselves up by their bootstraps, we must first be the sort of people who can pull themselves up by their bootstraps. How? I worry that the answer will be (pop culture confession here), something like what is depicted in Andor. That show is fantastic btw. It shows small groups of pre-revolutionary people committing acts that encourage a crackdown on the masses, to build pressure on the masses, such that a rebellion will come to be. It may be that to become people who can pull themselves up by their bootstraps, we need to go through more sh!t first. Maybe that's the only way. We need to be in a place to want it more, to love it more, to appreciate it more. We may collectively be too weak still.

Thank you for posting this though. This is THE discussion.

Murmuration

Warrior monks.

Yes. I can see that.

Perhaps Notes for A Maiden Warrior (https://www.danilarkin.com/epk) may be of use to those monks! I found them powerfully evocative.

Beautiful and powerful music. I'm listening to her sing in an empty pool @ the link you provided. Love it.
Thank you.

'A direction, an approach'

Like that.

How you do co-exist with some one who wants you dead and publicly celebrates every time someone like you dies?

I'm not trying to be flip.

I see a group of people hungry for more power, unable to self-regulate or moderate, and constantly putting their foot on the accelerator.

Last year anti-vaxxers were their enemy. Then they went back to Russian sympathizers in the spring. Now it's anyone who doesn't vote for Democrats. All these positions require public posting on social media of support So far I'm seeing the majority of prominent people for younger people (YouTubers, Tik Tokkers, etc) not doing this kind of Boomer posting. That matters.

Gen Z is leading the way out of this and so far they are mocking and trolling when given a chance. Arguing, resisting, confronting, reasoning - all have been abysmal failures. This entity we are fighting doesn't even follow their own laws. They are doing whatever they want and people complain about it but it just doesn't matter.

They want you and I dead, but they'll settle for our submission.

Gen Z is leading the way out of this and so far they are mocking and trolling when given a chance.

Gen Z are more like a predictable Bartleby II sequel: "I Prefer Not To" with no vision but ending up destitute homeless bitter godless and asexual.

if they were any FUN at all, maybe i'd listen or believe something they said but now i never do. it's all I DON'T TRUST ANYONE UNDER 50 until proven otherwise.

(smile)

erika

Dear, dear Erika Lopez,
Your presence here is so vital to the function of this place. Thank you for your question which has kept me up most of the night. The answer is most likely not a description of technique but of function, of principles and vital essence. There are two books that come to mind, one by Dmitry Orlov, Communities that Abide and Retrotopia by one JM Greer, you may have heard of him on the fringes of the historical philosophy scene.
D Orlov does a pretty good job of comparing communities that survive and thrive as independent societies surrounded and encapsulated within a larger culture, which if not openly hostile to said community are most blessedly dismissive of it's idiosyncratic expression of the human experience.
JMG does an outstanding job of describing one possible, relatively peaceful, solution to the question of how to operate in the world as an independent, accountable, and self sufficient society surrounded by a voracious and predatory parasite of the human soul.
Common to both, as different as they may be in detail, is they describe the principles by which these societies operate and it's here where we can find the clues to solving the question of how to be independent in an oppressive environment. Historically the principles of voluntary association, liberty (as opposed to freedom to my way of thinking, with its inherent requirement of responsibility which freedom lacks), humility, mutual respect, creativity, and tradition are among several other principles laid in the foundation of a vibrant, independent society that nourishes the human spirit. And so it is that I contend that there isn't any single definition or description of a successful alternative to the borg culture. The response in San Franscico will differ from that of Boston or Evansville. The principles, the charter and constitution of a parallel society are as close as we can come to defining our path. We would never have gotten to this state methinks if we had remained loyal to our principles and not surrendered to the conveniences and vapid trinkets laid as bait to entrap our human spirit.
Much love.
Gawain

Suicide, to me, always seemed like the desire to *live*: the one contemplating it feels Already Dead (great novel by Denis Johnson): the solution to that is not death but life. Please keep that in mind, Erika, if you find yourself in that place again. I'd miss you.

I think less of a parallel society, and more in terms of an interstitial one: if you can provide a needed or desired service or function, room will be made for you, by some if not by all. By enough, at any rate.

Forgiveness as turning the other cheek, or as turning the back? I, like you, prefer the latter. "You do you, and leave me alone."

These are tough and scary times, and I worry that this forum comprises the only people I know who are not on board the narrative train. Erika, I think this is your concern, too, and the interstitial society is certainly going to be easier if you're not going it alone (as I currently am). No solutions here, just some thoughts.

JimmyD

when i first read the ida auken article/story "welcome to 2030: i own nothing, have no privacy and life has never been better," i was duly appalled. (ida is a wef young global leader like the rest of the current batch of villains)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/worldeconomicforum/2016/11/10/shopping-i-cant-really-remember-what-that-is-or-how-differently-well-live-in-2030/?sh=274b40e91735

i don't know where to even start about how unworkable this would be, unless somebody has secretly come up with some sort of green energy that can power a functional grid and replace all workers with robots. it's the "friends" economy writ large: nobody needs to work, we get to live in the big city and have interesting lives.

it's one of the dumbest ideas i've ever encountered. this is what the schwabian geniuses at the wef have planned for our star trek future.

not to mention that even though she owns nothing, she does mention riding "my bike." does she own nothing or not? can the wef not afford an editor?

however, there was a kernel of hope buried within:

"my biggest concern is all the people who do not live in our city. those we lost on the way. those who decided that it became too much, all this technology. those who felt obsolete and useless when robots and ai took over big parts of our jobs. those who got upset with the political system and turned against it. they live different kind of lives outside of the city. some have formed little self-supplying communities. others just stayed in the empty and abandoned houses in small 19th century villages."

so maybe they don't plan to kill the dissenters after all. we just need to stay on the fringe and make our own way, avoiding the killbots that patrol gates' farmland that feeds the urban utopia, and we can scrabble some way to survive. there is a potential parallel economy.

somebody a while back said people that want to be free of "the system" tend to pick marginally productive, or inefficient under the current paradigm, lands to live in. with effort, these areas can provide for both sustenance and defense. think someplace like afghanistan. they outlasted the empire, albeit at great cost to both sides.

dunbar's number might be something to think about, a bunch of small communities that allow people to vote with their feet might support a web of sustainable communities. put them 400 miles from the cities and the electric cars will run out of juice, hence little interaction with the cult of progress.

my 2 cents on how to deal with the mess we find ourselves in.

hello my friend! i'd wondered what had happened to you. was gonna write you from my email and i hadn't been on all week but you wrote before i needed to reach out. good!

anyhow, i find it hilarious that you've calibrated your optimism to their assumption that some of us got away and ran into the woods!

not me. that white lady's response in the atlantic has me realizing they could be eating us for dinner by next thanksgiving if we back off and go for any okey dokes.

batten down the hatches after the elections, my brother!

x

erika

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