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Frugal Friday

Welcome back to Frugal Friday! This is a weekly forum post to encourage people to share tips on saving money, especially but not only by doing stuff yourself. A new post will be going up every Friday, and will remain active until the next one goes up. Contributions will be moderated, of course, and I have some simple rules to offer, which may change further as we proceed.

Rule #1:  this is a place for polite, friendly conversations about how to save money in difficult times. It's not a place to post news, views, rants, or emotional outbursts about the reasons why the times are difficult and saving money is necessary. Nor is it a place to use a money saving tip to smuggle in news, views, etc. I have a delete button and I'm not afraid to use it.

Rule #2:  this is not a place for you to sell goods or services, period. Here again, I have a delete button and I'm not afraid to use it.

Rule #3:  please give your tip a heading that explains briefly what it's about.  Homemade Chicken Soup, Garden Containers, Cheap Attic Insulation, and Vinegar Cleans Windows are good examples of headings. That way people can find the things that are relevant for them. If you don't put a heading on your tip it will be deleted.

Rule #4: don't post anything that would amount to advocating criminal activity. Any such suggestions will not be put through.

With that said, have at it!

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

I suppose that I am trying to read too much into this simple and insightful weekly feature. But I have noticed a parallel between what I call "the big site" over at ecosophia.net and this weekly escapade of being a tightwad (a moniker that I proudly wear!).

I will be curious about the role of the automobile in both arenas of discussion. I think that reduction/removal of these energy/money/environmental pollutants should be the central focus of any discussion of frugality here in "Murca.

Cars driven by the likes of you and I suck up around 40% of US petroleum, half of them are made in other countries. Best I can figure, they suck up 20% of post tax income for individuals.

I got rid of my minivan after a wreck three years ago (getting your van totaled by a woman falling asleep at the wheel in the freeway does make one question the personal automobile's real value!) and I found that I can easily function at my current income being at around the 30th percentile of income.

I wonder if maybe this might be the biggest and most obvious "frugal" here in 'Murca?

True story...my parents bought cemetery plots in the early 60s. Paid a little over $300 for the plots and bronze grave marker. Marker already engraved with my parents' names and Forever. Fast forward 20 some years and Forever got kicked to the curb. Divorced and Dad has the deed for the plots. Mom died 22 years ago and Dad just died a few weeks ago. He never sold the plots when he had the chance. Stepmom has the deed, but because the deed was in my parents names it comes to us children. Stepmom has asked if we will transfer the deed to her so she can sell the plots. I have no problem signing these plots over to her. These plots are not Fort Knox. They can possibly be sold for $2000 a piece, but here's the catch. The cemetery charges almost $1000 to transfer the deed and remove the marker. If my stepmom can find buyers, she will most likely have to pay another $500 to transfer the deed to the buyer. My siblings are dragging their feet signing off on the transfer. What a mess!
If you have elderly parents who perhaps bought plots ages ago, speak with them about their plans. Do they want to be buried there? Are the opting for cremation? (Both my parents did.) If they no longer want their plots, get rid of them now before it's messy.

I was reminded of this again.

Buy the smaller house and it's cheaper and easier to heat. It's cheaper to reroof. The taxes are lower.

Buy the bigger house and everything costs more.

Buy the bog-standard U.S. made sedan at the end of the model season and it's less expensive, it uses plain old gas, it's cheaper to insure, and maintenance doesn't involve specialty parts imported from England.

Buy the used Mini-Cooper and it costs more, it uses premium gas, it costs more to insure, and maintenance costs are almost double.

Buy the fancy fridge with an icemaker and water on tap and those parts will break and soon.

Buy the basic fridge with ice trays in the freezer compartment and a jug of water in the fridge and it will last longer.

The list goes on and on and on. Every time you add bells and whistles, increased size, and snazzy styling to anything, it costs you more up front and over time.

Hi Frugalistas,

Here in Costal British Columbia, Canada, we are having the most bizarre surge in inflation. I saw a rose bush selling for $60 when it was $20 last year. A single strawberry in a pot for $5 when they were sold a couple of years ago for ten dollars for a bundle of 12 plants. Individual raspberry and blackberry plants are being offered for $15 to more than $20.

We always pot up baby strawberry plants and blackberry plants as well as basket willows, figs and elderberry plants to give to our friends and neighbours. If you have a garden, it might be a good time to rear some flower, vegetable or fruit starts and to offer them for a lower price than the commercial plant sellers do. We just give plant starts away and were deeply grateful when friends gave us raspberry starts. I received 8 raspberry plants in all for a savings of $120.
Maxine

Please be careful selling plants look out for the tax man. In the past sold plants had to have a state license cost money and a sales tax number and file a notice of $ amount of sales every 90 days. Now I just give plants to people in my area. Blueberry

Boy, that picture sure brings back some memories! When we moved to vermont 16 years ago, we rented for 6 months while we searched for land. We found our land and bought a shelter system dome https://shelter-systems.com/product/20-dome/ for $700 which was what we were paying per month on the rental. We lived in it for two months while we built our 30 foot yurt. We had an outdoor shower, outdoor sink, outdoor kitchen and composting toilet all covered by various tenting materials. It rained a lot and May and June in Vermont 16 years ago were not particularly warm months. But we survived and even thrived :^)

The dome became a greenhouse, then a storage area and then a tree fell on it and it became parts for various projects around the property. The covering is particularly tough stuff and can be bought separately.

It won't work for everyone, but living in the dome/greenhouse while building was cheaper than buying property with a home already on the land. And we love our yurt. Again, not for everyone:^)

We got rid of our car 4 years later and have never looked back.

Our kids are grown, we both have lived adventurous lives, so it has been easier for us to make the decision to collapse now and avoid the rush and we're glad we did!

This is so true. Usually for me this issue comes up with appliances with all their gizmo-y digital thingamagigs. But it's also true for something as simple as curtains.

I recently bought a house that came with some expensive custom-made curtains that had several parts and a pulley thingy that... promptly broke. And it wasn't something that could easily be fixed.

I'm realizing now that the less complex the curtains the better. I'm going with the panels hanging from a rod thing.

As far as overall frugality goes, however, it's always been clear to me that if you can save money on your car (or better yet, not need one), over time you'll save big. Car ads tend be prime examples of high octane cacomagic.

A few years ago when I had more time and strength, I dug up and potted mint and thornless blackberries and baby Japanese maple trees from my backyard. I left them in the covered picnic table area of a local park with the sign free to good home. They always got taken.

The cost of replacement parts always figures into our automobile-purchase considerations.

Buy the basic fridge with ice trays in the freezer compartment and a jug of water in the fridge and it will last longer.

Better yet, cut up a lemon (one where the rind isn't treated with chemicals, obviously), put the slices and juice from another lemon in your jug, pour over with water and put in the fridge. It's so refreshing! I don't add any sugar, but that's just me. Works with other fruit, too. I also read you can do this with cucumber, but I haven't tried that yet.

I'm not sure it's black or white, but maybe a lot of grey area when it comes to car or no car. Our vehicles are tools for us. We live somewhat rurally, so there is no corner store to walk or bike to. We don't joy ride around. Our truck sits until we absolutely need to to haul yards of potting soil or renovation materials. Our car is used about once a week for grocery shopping. We are retired, so no one is driving to work anymore. We still pay our monthly car insurance, fill up the car tank about once a month and have maintenance costs. After saying that, I do wonder if we could make it without our vehicles. We would have to rely on taxis or Ubers, food delivery services, and family members. I'm not ready to give up my independence just yet.

Oh, granted. I chose a car-free lifestyle, and that's viable for many people these days, but not for everyone. One of the things I've tried to communicate along these lines is that there is no "one size fits all" option -- we each have to choose possibilities that work for our individual lives and needs.

Exactly! My youngest son lives in LA and has no need for a car. If it's not walkable, he gets an Uber. The apartment he moved into is walkable to bars and restaurants which suits my son's lifestyle. And for those curious, he pays a little over $5000 a month for a two bedroom.

Oh, don't get me wrong folks, I neither advocate for car-free nor sneer at decisions made concerning personal transportation.

Our host has ongoing discussions relating to the the decline of industrial civilization due to the slow exhaustion of it's principal energy source. This here venue discusses the practical and human-scale means of coping with a economy that does more looking back at the "good old days" than preparing for a constrained future.

In a sense, I think that the other two comments made to my original comment illustrate the current state of affairs. Michele7 is semi-rural and our host is seriously urban. Both have managed to figure out workable personal choices.

I asked Grok (another piece at my place forthcoming concerning "AI") about the population distribution here in 'murca. Apparently, the best guess is that there is a 70/30 "urban/outside of urban" distribution of population. The folks in the minority of that classification are more tightly constrained in their choices.

I think that the "car culture" which for some reason is synonymous with "the good old days" is going to be be examined closely as a part of a plan for frugality.

A plumber, many years ago, and others since then, told us that the refrigerators with water and ice on tap are the biggest source of household water damage. People leave for a few days, and come back to a domestic disaster.

On the rare occasion that we leave for a couple days, on our plumber’s advice, we turn off the water to the whole house. Our 15-year old refrigerator lacks the water and ice option (our choice) but shutting off the water is cheap insurance overall, IMHO.

Valerie

Hi,
We didn't have a car for six years as we would borrow a car from friends once or twice a month to g to town to buy groceries and animal feed. Our friends decided to buy a new electric car an offered for us to continue borrowing it. The problem was it did not have much storage capacity. We couldn't get all the animal feed in the car.

We bought their old car and continue to go to town twice a month now for cello lessons and shopping. Because we did without a car for so long, we hardly use the one we have. That is going to make it last a long time and we get a super deal on car insurance as we put so little mileage on the car. We bought the car for cash and spend very little on fuel.

So, I think cars shared by close friends and family can be useful. Also, renting a car when you really need one. There are a lot of car-share programs in cities. My sister used Modo for years in Vancouver. I think a lot of people are unconscious about their car use.

As things become more expensive, people will have to economize on their car use. Better to get good habits around auto conservation before you are forced to.
Maxine

We do the same. We've got one car (a 2011 Ford Focus) held together with duct tape, after the whomping willow fell on it and we had to get a salvage title.

Since Bill and I are indie writers, working from home, our car spends most of its life in the driveway.

We walk as much as we can.

But we need it, for groceries, trips, or events, it's there.

We arrange our schedule to job errands so it gets used less.
If we need a bigger car, such as a far-away book event, we arrange with Dear Son to use his much bigger 2006 Buick (handed down from Grandma).

Many of us probably can't live without one car for the household but most of us can minimize our car usage by planning trips and careful scheduling.

Paying attention to what you really need really pays off.

Dang. I'd *love* to go car-free. I've done it for years at a stretch, before. It is not possible where I live, and with children, at this time. In the US, unfortunately, there's not much overlap between places that are safe and affordable, and places where you can get around without a car. We do the best we can to minimize the amount of driving and the cost of owning the vehicle. But there's no escaping it for us. Yet.

Hey JMG and commentariat

For this Frugal Friday, I shall give a few hints about lighters.

As surprising as it may seem, I have very rarely bought a lighter in my life, on account of the fact that during my walks I occasionally find perfectly functional lighters that someone has carelessly dropped or forgotten about beforehand, laying on the ground or on a ledge. In fact, just last month I found a re-fillable lighter on the ground at a cemetery. If you walk often enough around towns and cities, you will eventually come across a functional lighter yourself.

Of course, eventually your disposable lighters run out of fluid and can’t produce flames. But rather than throw them away, it is possible to convert them into a “rope lighter”. This was an old device for making embers that was essentially a lighter whose flintstriker lit a cotton rope instead of a gas outlet. They were popular with sailors since it was harder for wind to blow out an ember compared to a flame. I’ve never converted a lighter myself, as demonstrated in the video linked below, but I did buy one off EBay which I often use to light incense.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhlHCDHATQ8

J.L.Mc12

Wow, that's like for a novel.

Me, I'm going for the scatter the ashes on the ocean thing.

My dad, a US Army veteran who was a Super Frugalista, arranged to have the US Army take his and my mom's ashes in a military cemetery in our state. I paid for a very nicely made wood urn I found on Etsy— it was worth it to me for the brief ceremony of placing it in the ground (doubt my dad would have agreed about that, though). Otherwise their burials were all free. I sincerely appreciated his thoughtfulness in this regard. I wasn't in much of a state to consider all the many decisions and expenses I would have had I needed to deal with a funeral home and a civilian cemetery.

Buy the smaller house, and it's easier to clean! Some of us are lazy, as well as frugal. :)

At some point in the next few weeks I expect I'll be able to report on how to make and use a fireless cooker; but this week, as I haven't yet finished this project, I want to discuss the benefits of learning to make things yourself rather than buying stuff. In addition to making it possible to get things a lot cheaper, in some cases there is no option to buy useful items. When I tried to find a fireless cooker, I found it surprisingly hard to actually find any.

I also think I'm having a lot more fun figuring out what I need, gathering everything, and now building it than it would have been if I could have just gone to the store to buy it.

It's been a long time now that I've been looking into getting some garden furniture. I had in mind seating for about 5-7 people, something heavy, that wouldn't blow away in a storm, but also comfortable (especially for older and heavy-set people), and so I figured that would involve big sofas with big cushions.

Well, not only is such furniture expensive, I hate cushions on garden furniture (I mean the big cushions for seating and back-rests on sofas). Such cushions are bulky, tend to get dusty, rained on, and smell. And when stored elsewhere, well, it's not always easy to find a place to store such a mountain of cushions, and then it's a hassle to get them out again— or in again— and they end up getting dusty and rained on.

I already have 2 heavy teak garden benches, not the type that require cushions, just benches. Whilst procrastinating on looking for the usual garden furniture with (...sigh...) cushions, I started using Ikea sheepskins rugs for some padding and then just throwing a colorful old tablecloth over the whole of the bench.

I finally realized that, for me, this make-do solution with sheepskins and tablecloths is actually better than traditional garden sofas with cushions because the sheepskins and tablecloths are easier to store, easier to keep clean, and the set-up is comfortable and, in my opinion, looks nice. So.

I get the sheepskins from Ikea (about USD 40 each), and use 2 per bench. I could use more. The tablecloths are brightly colored cotton prints.

The pile of sheepskins and folded table cloths lies flat in a closet, no problem, and unlike big sofa cushions, I can carry what I need in my arms from the closet to the garden in one trip.

Anyway, I was glad to conclude that I could cross "garden furniture" off my list.

Quite a few years ago I was part of Riot For Austerity ( goal being 10% of Average USA energy use), and I think the way these issues were thought about there is about right, instead of just focusing on one issue, there was a calculator we could use for a while that helped to see the the total, while not perfect, it helped to see that different choices could come up with a similar outcome. Categories of transportation, which is cars and plane flights, buses, etc,,, electricty used, heating/cooking gas used, wood used, how much food was restaurant, backyard grown, imported from far away, how much trash, how much money spent on "stuff".

So, my household came out very well, even though I am not in town. I threw out my airconditioners, and heat with local sourced wood. I dont fly, or at least it is exceedingly rare. I totally left "online" for a while as that uses power we dont see for servers. Use a solar oven,etc... I drove and still drive a car. At the time, it was very good gas mileage diesel. I combine trips. Before the fire, the miles to plate for my dairy and fresh fruit and veg was measured in feet.

A city lifestyle can be low energy. But, alot of people are not in that they fly all the time, consume and throw out, order food in or eat at restaurants constantly, lots of packaging, and taking a cab uses as much propulsion energy as a private car, less embodied energy if you dont do it often. You of course can be very low consumption in a city, but I think that is not the usual lifestyle, but there are many examples of not traveling, cooking at home, and conserving heat and cooling, walking or taking the bus or train,etc..

My current location is not ideal, Being right outside of a town or in a town with a 1/4 acre or 1/2 acre lot sounds very nice, or at least not with the elevation gain I have to a town. ( 2000 ft over 6 miles).But, I have less travel and "stuff" and food energy used than most people, country or city. I also know that people lived right here where I am before cars. They had the same elevation and distance to the same town. They walked or took a horse or wagon. They hauled apples down from here by wagon in the fall. There were vineyards before prohibition. This was also a lumber and lime(for cement) mining area. Once most of the lumber was taken, it went to farming the crops that didnt need rain ( apples, wine grapes), they stopped taking the lime recently, there is still alot left. Once the economic competition changed for the fruits, it is all mature forest again. There were less houses here, with larger lots then ( for hay and firewood I would imagine) and we had many more schools, smaller, but more of them. 3 one/two room school houses eventually consolidated to the current school once cars were very common. The closest one to my location is about a bit over a mile, certainly less than 1.5 miles walk from my house, elevation change is moderate enough. The building is still there, added on to and used as a private residence.

I would imagine if energy expenses get high enough, accommodations will happen. I have taken the bus many times, but it doesnt run often enough to make it easy. I can take the bus and get groceries and my allergy shots if needed, it goes to the further, larger town. It is good exercise at both ends. I go to town once a week by car currently, combine trips though including other locations I cant walk to from that end station and then too much to carry on this end. Most people have never taken it at all, or put their teens on it ! So, they could, and more frequent buses could be added if people were taking them. And, we could get some kind of local "store" in places up here, right now, it is against county zoning (!) to have a "corner" store outside of city limits. But, if there is ever in the future sufficient demand, then an illegal one will spring up. We have a non permitted pop up coffee shop twice a week, thursdays and saturdays, and we sometimes have private people selling weekly bakings of bread or pizza. Personally, I could live just fine with infrequent inputs of bulk foods, hay and chicken grains. Socially, a small town closer by sounds good ( in theory...)

Atmosperhic River

This is beautiful! That was a lovely thing to do. 🙏

I had some cedar log segments from a dead cedar tree, and was able to make them into a raised garden bed. I put hardware cloth (metal screening) around the bottom and sides to keep out voles, and chicken wire on top to slow down the deer and raccoons. Hard to say if it will keep out bears!

Here is a link to the construction process:

https://jackmanassas.blogspot.com/2025/05/critter-resistant-planter-box.html

And this is, hopefully, a picture of the box;

https://emmanuelg.dreamwidth.org/file/65514.jpg

Happy Gardening everyone!

--Emmanuel G

We did something similar in our garden without the hardware cloth. The cloth is a great idea! Thanks.:^)

Hear, hear!

Caldathras

Thank you for this. Very inspiring.

I noted that someone commented about the wood rotting. You might also have a problem with the angle irons and hardware mesh rusting away. Really, that's only natural. It's not like you'd want to use chemically treated wood in a garden where you'd be growing food. Besides, I've always understood cedar to be resistant to decay.

We, naturally, want to minimize maintenance but it can't be avoided altogether. I imagine that hardwoods would last longer. I've experimented with applying linseed oil to wood I want to preserve. It appears to be working.

Not sure if there are any better options for hardware cloth. Plastic mesh might last longer but it certainly wouldn't be a deterrent to voles. Plastic lining against the sidewalls might help the wood last longer.

Caldathras

I think it is very cute. I have found that overlapping but not secured areas of hardware cloth become problem areas that let in tunnelling rodents like gophers and voles. They push around dirt alot, pushing with their noses, and will push between the 2 layers and get in after a while. Next time sew the 2 pieces together tightly where they overlap with baling wire or if you have a galvanized wire, even better.

I use hardware cloth on the bottom of all my garden beds. The long sides are 2x12 lumber, redwood in this area, cedar is just as good in other regions. The hardware cloth is nailed on with metal staples very very close together, maybe even every inch. Could be 2 inches ? I havent done one for a couple years, but it has to be where a small rodent nose cant pull it down, push in, over time when they tunnel.

Next time try adding a little wax and turpentine to the linseed oil. Blueberry

That's a great idea, to sew the pieces together with galvanized wire! At the end of the year, I can shovel out the dirt and fix that. I left the ends of the side pieces poking out so that a vole getting near would poke his nose on the wire points and hopefully move on. Sewing them together would likely work better and be more humane for the voles.

Speaking of which, someone told me to mix Castor oil and dish detergent, and spray it on the lawn in the Spring and Fall. Voles apparently don't like the smell of Castor oil, and will move on...

A permaculture demi-god, Sepp Holzer, has a technique of mounding up otherwise waste wood (like windfalls) into long piles, up to six feet tall. He then adds whatever manure he can get all over the pile along with other random organic matter, and tries to keep it from drying out too much. The wood breaks down over a period of several years, generating a gentle heat and turning into a long, fertile mound great for growing things. Carbon sequestered into new soil.

"Hugelkultur" is what he calls it. Plenty of videos online about it. (This is all from memory-- my German stinks.)

*Ochre Harebrained Curmudgeon*

I loved the Riot for Austerity! (And Sharon Astyk. Her book "Depletion and Abundance" is such a good, thoughtful look at the idea of frugal living as an ethical practice.)

Something I took from the Riot was that it was often fairly painless for families, even large ones, to reduce consumption down to 10% or less of the American average in just one or two categories. For example, at the time, I had a 7 person household (3 adults, 4 children) with a large vegetable garden, and yet somehow we managed to use less than 10% of the average American household's water consumption.

Gasoline was a harder one--we used, and still do use, about the average amount of gasoline, mostly because I work 90 miles away from the house in the middle of a transportation desert (we can walk, bus, train or bike almost everywhere other than my job.) The obvious answer is that I should get a job closer to home! But change is hard.

--Ms. Krieger

Hey, great to virtually meet another rioter ! There is one I know of in the greater bay area I met in person once, that of course being highly unusual as rioters dont do extra driving.

The transportation issue is not always fully solvable at a household level. In many areas there would need to be community level restructuring that everyone else is not on board with yet. That does not lessen everything you do at a household level, the level you can control. The main thing is for you to take care of yourself, a 90 miles each way commute is brutal, very tiring. That is my concern about that.

My household hit at or close to 10% overall for quite a while, even though living out of town for a couple reasons: the car got 45mpg; my savings were much more than 10% in the other categories, so it averaged out. The online calculator that we used to have access to was great for showing that averaging out. My super low areas were electricty, heating fuel and locally produced "wet" foods (eggs, dairy, fruit, vegetables) and less of those than average, trash/consumption. I have no way to measure water usage, but I am sure it was low enough due to the water saving measures we took.

You are correct in that most changes were painless. Or, kind of interesting to see "how low can we go". We lived in a house at a comfortable temperature most of the time ( some high heat days in summer), used a washing machine and even a dishwasher in those days as the household was larger, had a refrigerator and a car etc...

Giving away the airconditioners ( 3 window units) and exclusively heating the house with local wood, not having a clothes dryer, and practicing electric conservation ( a boring top freezer energy star fridge, laptops, a timer on the electric water heater, and just turning things off..) did the most. Making use of carpooling and the bus line where possible for teen school/activity transport. Extras here in a large yard was backyard eggs, milk and a fair amount of produce, using a solar oven alot half the year and dehydrating fruits on a sheet in the sun instead of using power.

Atmospheric River

You are so right about the commute! I only work onsite Monday—Wednesday, and try to stay overnight nearby, with friends and extended family, on Mon and Tues nights. So I only make one round trip a week. It’s getting old but it’s a good job and helps me take care of my family so I’m making the best of it.

(I do look forward to the day when I can slash that gasoline number, though!)

—Ms. Krieger

Thanks for the tip, Blueberry.

Caldathras

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

Frugal Friday

intersection of frugality and the automobile

Cemetery plots and not waiting

Simplifying your life will save you money

High Price of Garden Plants

Re: High Price of Garden Plants

living cheap while you build

Re: Simplifying your life will save you money

Re: High Price of Garden Plants

Re: Simplifying your life will save you money

Re: Simplifying your life will save you money

Re: intersection of frugality and the automobile

Re: intersection of frugality and the automobile

Re: intersection of frugality and the automobile

Re: intersection of frugality and the automobile

Re: Simplifying your life will save you money

Re: intersection of frugality and the automobile

Re: intersection of frugality and the automobile

Re: intersection of frugality and the automobile

Lighters

Re: Cemetery plots and not waiting

Re: Simplifying your life will save you money

Get into DIY

Outdoor furniture

Re: intersection of frugality and the automobile

Re: High Price of Garden Plants

Planter Box with Cedar border

no subject

Re: Simplifying your life will save you money

Re: Planter Box with Cedar border

Re: Planter Box with Cedar border

Re: Planter Box with Cedar border

Re: Planter Box with Cedar border

Re: Planter Box with Cedar border

Re: intersection of frugality and the automobile

Re: intersection of frugality and the automobile

Re: intersection of frugality and the automobile

Re: Planter Box with Cedar border