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Frugal Friday

Welcome back to Frugal Friday! This is a weekly forum post to encourage people to share tips on saving money, especially but not only by doing stuff yourself. A new post will be going up every Friday, and will remain active until the next one goes up. Contributions will be moderated, of course, and I have some simple rules to offer, which may change further as we proceed.

Rule #1: this is a place for polite, friendly conversations about how to save money in difficult times. It's not a place to post news, views, rants, or emotional outbursts about the reasons why the times are difficult and saving money is necessary. Nor is it a place to use a money saving tip to smuggle in news, views, etc. I have a delete button and I'm not afraid to use it.

Rule #2: this is not a place for you to sell goods or services, period. Here again, I have a delete button and I'm not afraid to use it.

Rule #3: please give your tip a heading that explains briefly what it's about. Homemade Chicken Soup, Garden Containers, Cheap Attic Insulation, and Vinegar Cleans Windows are good examples of headings. That way people can find the things that are relevant for them. If you don't put a heading on your tip it will be deleted.

Rule #4: don't post anything that would amount to advocating criminal activity. Any such suggestions will not be put through.

With that said, have at it!

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Our dishwasher died a number of years ago. This was the THIRD dishwasher since we'd bought the house. The original that came with the house, the replacement unit, and then the replacement for the replacement.

It turns out that modern dishwashers -- according to our stove repairman, another story -- last five to seven years. Once past the five year mark, you're on borrowed time and it doesn't matter how expensive the dishwasher was.

We're also looking at replacing our ancient, decades-old kitchen floor.

Thus, we're finally getting rid of the dishwasher and replacing it with a cabinet of drawers, providing us more usable storage space than we get with the dead dishwasher. We need to do this before we replace the floor.

This leads to the thought: what other appliances can be easily replaced?
As we slide down the long emergency into a harder, colder, future, why pay for an appliance that can be easily replaced by hand-washing dishes?

What appliances would you replace? The dishwasher is easy.

The dryer is a bit harder because when the weather's bad and so is your back, it's useful. The dryer can also be left, unused, for months at a time with no damage to delicate seals.

Any thoughts?

I've always wanted "California Cooler Closet" it's a cold food storage system that could replace the fridge. It's essentially a super insulated cupboard on the cold side of the house, with a refrigerator door seal and vents to the outside at the top and bottom for air circulation. A thermometer set into the door allows you to monitor the temperature without opening the door and losing your cool.
I saw one in a house in Calgary once. It had those clear plastic vertical slats like you see in commercial refrigerators to help reduce temperature fluctuations when opening the door. Like most alternatives it needed a more active management approach than a plug in appliance. The homeowner said that in summer it was just a cooler for milk and butter but in winter the stuff on the lower shelves would freeze. Being Calgary she had to be prepared for sudden thaws.
Obviously whether this would be a useful technology or not would depend on where you live.

Hi Teresa,
I haven't used a dryer in almost 20 years. We have an outdoor double washing line for the fine weather and two wooden clothes racks for indoor drying in the winter. As we heat with a wood stove most of our wash is dry in a day.
Maxine

I did this years ago too -- and I am trying to tell my eldest to do this. They bought a house, and the dishwasher to them looks too worn out to use, and they dont have the cash right now. I know as you do about the poorly built new products, but the first argument I am using, as their kitchen is so small and she wants a microwave, is " since you arent going to use the old dishwasher, why not take it to the recycle center now and put in a couple shelves and you can set the microwave on one of them now, in the meantime " and then hope that the next year or two they will get used to liking the storage and used to hand washing dishes.

I dont see the need for a dishwasher, this is the easiest I think for people to replace.

I personally dont see the need for a clothes drier -- and yes I heat my house with wood, which drys out the air in the house. Except that many people I know all over the county also use drying racks indoors and they live down on the coast with damp air, fog, and heat in various ways, like electric space heaters or gas central heat. It may not get as cold there but the winters are a damp cold as there is no snow, I find colder places that snow to have drier outside air. I suppose no need to pre-emptively get rid of it, but I would not replace it when it breaks, as you say, any replacement will be poorly built and judging by the one my eldest bought, it will not dry the clothes well as it is energy efficient, meaning it doesnt realy dry the diapers and towels all the way.

I like to think the other way too, what do I think is most essential ? And that is having water and heat and being able to cook food. So I would actually recommend, in general, the addition of an appliance people might not already own, and that would be a good, energy efficient wood stove, or build in a homemade rocket stove. So take that money saved from not buying the new whatevers and apply it there, as well as all the insulation and weatherizing that I know Teresa already does alot of, but others need to get in there and do.

After that, my favorite things to prioritize and keep, in no particular order, are a way or a few ways to communicate, a way to keep food cool, so a refrigerator, and a washing machine. I realy like my refrigerator and washing machine, I think women used to realy wear themselves out with laundry in olden days. Obviously, best to not rely on either one forever, so learn alternatives, like dehydrating or canning foods, or at least how to cook with canned and dried foods that can be bought. So you see the last appliances I want to lose is a washing machine and the telephone. And I have done laundry without one, and for some things it is not too bad, soaking with modern detergents in cold water does alot, and I can agitate with my feet in the bathtub. It is the wringing out and the weight of wet towels, sheets and jeans that is what is hard for those of use not as young as we used to be.

Atmospheric River

I had to go thru all this 2 years ago, and still dont have the kitchen to its ultimate end state, but is at a very useable middle state, but I have to say, it is nicer with the new floor, I actually replaced it with something close to what it was before. Mine had 1 inch thick spanish red quarry stone tile with realy wide 1 inch grout lines. The grout had been done with cement color and then coated with a rubberized black coating that was worn off in blotchy ways. I imagine that 50 years ago, those grout lines were easy to clean with that coating that no-one these days has ever heard of. SO I decided to move the refrigerator to the opposite corner, since I was having to rip out the floor, and a cabinet due to water damage there. As you know, you pull a thread on a home project and more unravels. I put in spanish red tiles, but they are thinner now, and installed now with much thinner grout lines. I am trying to maintain distributed thermal mass in the house for some passive heat retention.

One you are done, I am sure you will also enjoy working flooring, it is nice.

I also decided years ago to not replace the microwave. It takes up alot of room, and there is a cycle of replacement. It seems it was being used to reheat food and sometimes boil a cup of water for tea. WHen I had a full house, there was less need of a microwave reheating of food, but for 8 years now it is just me, but I am not going back to a microwave.

I reheat leftovers differently since then. Mostly I reheat in a small saucepan on the stove. I put the smallest bit of water in the bottom, add the food ( lets say leftover pasta or rice) put on a lid, bring it to a boil which takes no time, quickly reduce heat to a very low simmer. Leave it until I think it is heated thru. I have revere ware saucepans which are very resistant to scorching. Soups in a sauce pan are obvious. Some things I heat in the toaster oven, as I have one now instead of a regular toaster. Other foods are recycled into a different kind if dish, like a freshly made soup or casserole. And, I have gotten very good at making smaller batches of food. Like making a 1/4 or less batch of biscuits. Making 2/3 cup of dry rice to rice at a time for 2 meals worth.

I like having less appliances to have to spend money on to replace and I like not taking up the space a microwave takes up. And I realy dont like how microwaves change the foods in any case. I have done without one just fine even when I did not have a small toaster oven, because I have only had that for 2 years. A good set of saucepans helps alot, and I bought mine 45 years ago, so they last. Saucepan handles eventually give, so a couple have been replaced with used ones I bought at the thrift store or Etsy.

Atmospheric River

Ways to use leftovers include: chop into scrambled eggs. Pour a cream sauce over. Pureed vegetables can be added to almost anything for extra nourishment and depth of flavor. Anyone else? There must be more I don't know about. Mary Bennett

i may have posted this here before, but heating up leftover pizza in a (covered) pan with some melted butter is so much better than doing it in a microwave. anything involving bread will most likely give the same result.

Yummm!
For me food reheated in the microwave is a blah. I got a countertop toaster 2 years ago, and I've been very pleased with that for reheating food.

I haven't used a microwave oven ever since I read a Dr. Mercola article nearly 15 years ago about post-WW2 studies done by the Russians regarding them. Apparently, Russia banned microwaves for decades because their studies showed that the microwave ovens altered the food on the molecular level. They only gave in to Western pressure against the ban during glasnost.

I reheat leftovers differently since then

Your approach made me wonder if a double boiler would be an effective way to reheat leftovers. It's a method used to cook foods that are prone to scorching, after all.

Caldathras

I'd forgotten two sort-off appliances that I've either refused to buy or got rid of at my earliest opportunity.

Garbage disposals. Simply awful. You need bathtubs of water to keep them clean. I've removed them from every house I've owned. If you've got a yard of any size, a compost bin takes care of all that vegetable waste, much of which shouldn't be washed down the garbage disposal anyway.

Water dispensers and ice-makers in your fridge. They are the FIRST things to fail in a fridge. You can order any fridge (and pay less!) without them. Use ice cube trays and a fridge pitcher instead.

I forgot those existed... for sure, not needed.

I live on septic system where it would be foolish to have a garbage disposal, but I bet some do. Also, when I visit my offspring and do kitchen cleanup and use their garbage disposals I always get in trouble. I guess they dont make them like they used to. SO Im peeling potatoes, with the water running as they dont live in California, with the garbage disposal going - nope, I broke the thing or clogged it. When I grew up, grandma threw EVERYTHING in the garbage disposal and it ground them up. SO, if the only stuff you can put in it are already soft stuff like applesauce or soup, what is the point anyways ? Another thing that costs money to buy and money to run. Just scrape the plates into a bowl to take outside to the compost or worm bin or to throw under the trees to feed the voles.

Ice makers. Yeah, these are energy hogs. Realy use alot of power as they freeze AND HEAT the wire, in the freezer, that cuts the cubes... so, if you have a freezer with an icemaker, or the used one otherwise good you buy has one, make sure to push the metal wire thing up, the stiff wire thing on the side of the icemaker, as that turns it off and it will no longer use power to quck freeze and heat. If you are handy, take it out if you own it, so you have more room. If you rent, just keep that metal wire thing up. Water dispenser in the door, these break before other things do, very prone to breaking by leaking, and costs more to buy a refrigerator with one. The most frugal refrigerator to buy and run is going to be a top freezer model ( USA, models in other countries may vary) you should be able to get an 18cu ft refrigerator that is rated less than 350kWh a year maybe less. You will not save much by going smaller. 15 to 18 cu ft is the sweet spot, unless you need a smaller one for space requirements. I think they just use the same compressor size for various sized refrigerators. My current one I bought used, but I had them send me a photo of the label on the inside and looked up its specs, so I knew I was getting the energy saving one, no new one would have been better. DO some research as to manufacturers, I wont by LG, I realy like GE but some others are decent too,not as many as there has been alot of buyouts and consolidations

Atmospheric River

Me, I'd can the electric coffee maker and use a stovetop cowboy coffee set up instead. The coffee maker is nice, however it takes up so much counterop space. It has a built in coffee grinder, which I regret, it's very loud. When I was a kid my grandma used a simple Amish-sytle coffee grinder, probably cost a dollar, worked fine.

I'd also can the microwave.

I won't be doing either, however. It so happens that both the coffee maker and the microwave are new and really very nice. So I have what's called, I guess, a First World Problem.

(I use my microwave as a Faraday Cage for the phones, by the way.)

Anyway, it's a good thought experiment. I expect that I'll be using the coffee maker and the microwave until they wear out, or else I have someone to give them to when I move to another house.

PS My dishwasher broke down recently and until I could get it repaired it was a total headache to wash all those dishes by hand. I'm definitely keeping the dishwasher, LOL.

Depends how you use the dishwasher, everyone I see rinses off the dishes so thoroughly BEFORE putting them in the dishwasher, they may as well just set them in the dish drainer to dry, or it would only be the teenest more effort to have them all the way clean. What a waste of water (yes, I live in California)
and time. I used to have a very nice dishwasher, an Asko, very quiet, I bought it when I had medical problems, I couldnt put my arm in water for a long time. Anyway, when I had a full house it worked out fine, no dishes were pre-rinsed, either just scraped off into the compost bin or on occasion, given to the dog to clean off, then set in the dishwasher. And it was run every day, every day after dinner.

What I see at other houses is dishes rinsed off, rubbed down, very thoroughly, as they are only running the dishwasher twice a week " when it is full". That should be obvious then that they are cleaned off, set in the dishwsher to dry until it is run to "sterilize" them.

If it takes you forever to hand wash dishes, you are out of practice as it is barely longer than rinsing them for thedishwasher. Unless something needs to besoaked and scrubbed, but then dishwashers dont do that and that always has to be done by hand.

Atmospheric RIver

That should be obvious then that they are cleaned off, set in the dishwasher to dry until it is run to "sterilize" them.

In most of the professional kitchens I worked in, sanitizing was the only purpose for such a machine. Human dishwashers took care of the cleaning. The larger kitchens would often have a machine that was specifically designed just for sanitizing. They might have gotten hot enough to sterilize but I couldn't say for sure.

Caldathras

I didn't sign my previous post on this thread. I'm the expensive coffee maker machine and microwave person who wouldn't give up the dishwasher.

I wanted to add that I found that I was mainly using the microwave to heat water for tea and really, a much better solution for me has been to use an old-fashioned electric tea kettle. It is so fast!! And since it turns off automatically, if I forget about it, it's not so dangerous as leaving a kettle boiling on a stove.

I hesitated for a long time to buy an electric water kettle, thinking it was going to be so much counter-clutter. But now it's actually a purchase I wish I had made sooner. I find it very useful for cooking also-- I can use to give any pot of water (say, for boiling ravioli) a head start.

I don't use an electric cake mixer. My meringue is made with a hand beater, the one with the handle and gear wheel that turns the interlocking whisks. It could be a better design as it gets stuck frequently. I might palm my grandmother's one if it is still at my parents'.

These are the sorts of things I want to inherit, if anybody kept them from two generations back.

I moved into a new place a year ago and haven’t yet used the dishwasher, the look of utter incomprehension on my mother’s face when I started hand washing was hilarious, kind of. Eventually I’ll get around to removing it and put in a cabinet instead. My brother just bought an old vacant house that has a vintage dishwasher still inside, a late 1980s model similar to what I remember from my childhood, and I’m thinking that thing would still probably outlast the newer machine in my house…

Interesting - our dishwasher, purchased in 2008, is still going strong. In the sixteen intervening years it's needed a new recirculation pump, main seal, new racks (rusted out), and just last month a new seal for the rinse aid dispenser. It helps immensely if you can do your own appliances repairs!

Roldy

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