ecosophia | Open (More or Less) Post on Covid 166

We are now in the fourth year of these open posts. When I first posted a tentative hypothesis on the course of the Covid phenomenon, I had no idea that discussion on the subject would still be necessary more than three years later, much less that it would turn into so lively, complex, and troubling a conversation. Still, here we are. Crude death rates and other measures of collapsing public health are anomalously high in many countries, but nobody in authority wants to talk about the inadequately tested experimental Covid injections that are the most likely cause; ~~public health authorities~~ government shills for the pharmaceutical industry are still trying to push through laws that will allow them to force vaccinations on anyone they want; public trust in science is collapsing; and the story continues to unfold.

So it's time for another open post. The rules are the same as before:

1. If you plan on parroting the party line of the medical industry and its paid shills, please go away. This is a place for people to talk openly, honestly, and freely about their concerns that the party line in question is dangerously flawed and that actions being pushed by the medical industry and its government enablers are causing injury and death on a massive scale. It is not a place for you to dismiss those concerns. Anyone who wants to hear the official story and the arguments in favor of it can find those on hundreds of thousands of websites.

2. If you plan on insisting that the current situation is the result of a deliberate plot by some villainous group of people or other, please go away. There are tens of thousands of websites currently rehashing various conspiracy theories about the Covid-19 outbreak and the vaccines. This is not one of them. What we're exploring is the likelihood that what's going on is the product of the same arrogance, incompetence, and corruption that the medical industry and its wholly owned politicians have displayed so abundantly in recent decades. That possibility deserves a space of its own for discussion, and that's what we're doing here.

3. If you plan on using rent-a-troll derailing or disruption tactics, please go away. I'm quite familiar with the standard tactics used by troll farms to disrupt online forums, and am ready, willing, and able -- and in fact quite eager -- to ban people permanently for engaging in them here. Oh, and I also lurk on other Covid-19 vaccine skeptic blogs, so I'm likely to notice when the same posts are showing up on more than one venue.

4. If you plan on making off topic comments, please go away. This is an open post for discussion of the Covid epidemic, the vaccines, drugs, policies, and other measures that supposedly treat it, and other topics directly relevant to those things. It is not a place for general discussion of unrelated topics. Nor is it a place to ask for medical advice; giving such advice, unless you're a licensed health care provider, legally counts as practicing medicine without a license and is a crime in the US. Don't even go there.

5. If you don't believe in treating people with common courtesy, please go away. I have, and enforce, a strict courtesy policy on my blogs and online forums, and this is no exception. The sort of schoolyard bullying that takes place on so many other internet forums will get you deleted and banned here. Also, please don't drag in current quarrels about sex, race, religions, etc. No, I don't care if you disagree with that: my journal, my rules.

Please also note that nothing posted here should be construed as medical advice, which neither I nor the commentariat (excepting those who are licensed medical providers) are qualified to give. Please take your medical questions to the licensed professional provider of your choice.

With that said, the floor is open for discussion.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Yeah, I noticed that too. People these days are heavily programmed to approach any conflict in exaggeratedly Tolkienesque terms -- thus we have one group of people shrieking about how the Palestinians are evil incarnate and the Israelis are sinless innocents, and another group shrieking just as loudly that the opposite is true. That both the Palestinians and Israelis are bengaging in atrocities, and insisting that their human rights abuses don't matter because of the other side's human right's abuses, never gets into the discussion -- even though that's what's going on, of course. In the meantime, subtler points like yours -- that conflicts abroad can be used, and are used, by domestic politicians to try to distract attention from the consequences of their mistakes here at home -- go unnoticed by most.

You know? I wonder why/how "go unnoticed by most. "
willful? inability to think subtlety? Unwillingness to look at implications and possible culpability (my guess)?

Anyway Thanks.

~Wolf

As I see it, there are at least two factors here. First of all, training/programming people to drop immediately into bickering over who are the good guys/bad guys is a great way to keep them from going any deeper and asking any inconvenient questions. Once those hyperpartisan emotions enter the discussion, the capacity to process information turns off and the result is the kind of angry emoting and circular rhetoric we're all so tired of watching.

Beyond that, though, there's a deeper factor. This happens in the life of every civilization. There's always an age of reason, but it always terminates itself in exactly this way as reason drowns in its own waste products, and angry bickering over abstract categorizations takes the place of meaningful thought about what's actually happening. Giambattista Vico called the result "the barbarism of reflection," and we're deep in it right now.

Perhaps. Just maybe. There are no heroes in this story, only villains.

"Heroes" and "villains" are both narrative constructs borrowed from fiction. There are no heroes or villains in the real world, just human beings.

Yes, indeed. I just read ‘sand talk,’ twice!, on the recommendation of another poster, and the author says the same thing in another way. He tells a story with turtle and echidna in which echidna is the villain. After the story he adds ‘but echidna is only the villain during the events of this story. After he is punished, he doesn’t hold onto that guilt, and others don’t hold blame for him. They let it go, and he lets it go, learns from his mistakes and becomes something wonderful’. I loved this book, and noted frequent parallels to your ideas. Tamar

before covid you could have tempted me with logic, popular narrative, and right and wrong.

At this point, the politics, the nostalgia, the whateverexcuse...is irrelevant.

You are either blood, a countryman (by blood not paper), or I have no phecks to give.
I really care not. enough of my own blood, and my families blood has been spilt in the past 3 years that I have nothing left. I don't care. And the more any special category cries out in pain as they lash out and do worse than I have ever read in ww1 or 2...

It is coming to light and I won't speak of it again on this forum.
rq

There is a song that goes 'There goes my hero....' which they played over the loudspeaker at a Trump rally when RFK jr. came out to endorse Trump. I felt tears & emotions & hope and realized I was being manipulated by some clever strategist. The MAGA people (Mr. & Mrs. NOT drag queen at Sunday School - who I think of as mostly meaning well but not exactly The Founding Fathers...) went all delirious with hope.

Open (More or Less) Post on Covid 166

Re: I have "a tentative hypothesis"

Re: I have "a tentative hypothesis"

Re: I have "a tentative hypothesis"

Re: I have "a tentative hypothesis"

Re: I have "a tentative hypothesis"

Re: I have "a tentative hypothesis"

Re: I have "a tentative hypothesis"

Re: I have "a tentative hypothesis"